Nungali

..... not that I expect you to believe ANY of that

But you are still doing it Karl ; this does not happen for me, this does not happen to me , I cant do that . Not every one is like you Karl. It isnt ...... all about you. " absolutely nothing on this planet tells me what to do " ? Serious ? Dude, now I feeling sorry for you . Maybe its the wording, I can see it as being told what to do , or I can see it as taking the advice from the signs I see. Even in my decadent modern lifestyle ( that is a bit feral and rural ) . You might call it 'observation of factors and applied learning' ? Black cockatoos 'tell me what to do' .... I see a certain number of them flying together , in a certain way, making a specific sound set, I know that in 3 days time we will get rain. I know that when the caterpillars all join together in a long line and go off on a trek, you can go to the rock wall where this river I live by meets the sea and catch a big load of bream. And I wont even bother going fishing until the Moon is in the right spot, because the fish wont even bite otherwise. In a way, its ALWAYS telling me what to do . Time too wake up ! I dont think you re seeing the big picture , you need to step out of yourself a bit. Take this statement ; " We have to make the best of it, we cannot go around trying to figure out if our actions are in harmony, our only thought is to survive, or to give up." Indigenous people living a traditional lifestyle do not go around with a head space like the one you are showing here, if they did they would be doing what you describe . I am not sure you can see the catch you are in here, but anyway , I will go on - The only thought IS to survive but they figured it out long ago and apply what they did learn as 'culture' - as I said previously (if you didnt skip over things again ) . Their cultural systems were based on survival , their mores and taboos and all the structure of their culture is an attempt (sometimes greatly successful over a long period of time, sometimes not that long) to make their environment sustainable by both modification and understanding what it is doing and working with it. Such cultures are big holistic system that virtually have their own lives .... I am NOT talking a about some half arsed new ager floundering around the rainforest trying to figure out how to 'be in harmony' with mother earth . I am not eve sure you CAN get what I am talking about, as you keep bringing it back to what Karl could and could not do as your examples Another example is that is exactly what the indigenous attitude is with some here . Attitude can be VERY important. You are gonna hate this but the exact words were "You want something, you just ask Mum (nature ) and she will give it to you . " Tooly might be able to sing the turtle song and somehow the turtles swim up and stick their necks out the water and he nabs them , obviously this is a process that has sooooo many not understood (by me ) factors in it ( his 'unconscious' application of knowledge , everything from right place , season and timing, approach to the water hole and heaps of stuff that developed over 10s of 1000s of years ... beats me !, but they got turtle for dinner . If one goes out there not realizing, not understanding , not knowing , battling against nature, forcing nature to give up the turtles with your will against the 'turtle will' ...... no, you wont be 'told' what to do ... and you end up , as they say " a very hungry white fellah ."

- dont ever change !

And here I was thinking I had escaped Catholicism

There is a Dr Strange movie coming out ..... my favorite comic book 'hero' of my wasted youth ! And Shangri-la .... O come on thelearner . . . we already have solved that one !

What department did you work in ? I worked in Aussie film industry (as a grunt , mostly ) ... a few biggies and INSANE shit happening (like flying helicopters below the skyscraper line in Sydney along the streets ! They will NEVER let them do that again ! I got in via friend , worked for him a little bit (grunting ) ; http://www.advancedcameratechnologies.com.au/libraaerials.html It can be fun Once I was on another job and he was working nearby shooting . For some stupid reason they were filming in a park right near the inner urban Newtown area (one of the biggest cafe 'sidewalk dining', narrow busy traffic and and truck and bus routes streets in Sydney ) with ...... water buffalo ! ... they had a 'mishap; .... and came past us .... with us jeering and hooting at them , and they .... " Shut the fuck up ! " \ Then the news headlines : "Escaped Buffalo run rampant in Sydney after escaping in from film set." http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/nsw/escaped-buffalo-run-rampant-in-sydney-after-escaping-from-film-set/story-fni0cx12-1226864086096 Then we all watched it on the next night's news : " Oh look there is Jimmy, he looks angry doesnt he ? I think the Buffalo is winning ." < voice from kitchen > " Shut the fuck up ! "

' Attack ' Karl ??? Nah ... actually he is free to add that I live like an Aboriginal Australian to his dossier of claimed knowledge about me that he makes his predictions on . Tell me Jimmy , have you ever been in a woman's prison ?

Yo be free basin bro !

"Oooooo yeeeees , I did ! "

Yes ! Bring me my fencing foil ! .... No, wait ! Something a little more 'heavy duty'.

Yes. Could you please tell Karl he isn't the messiah, he's just a naughty boy

Yes. two tequila sunrises thanks .... actually, make that three tequila sunrises.

yep ... no we cant survive well if dumped somewhere ... we survive in such places by culture , and culture is accrued and past on and learnt from an early age, those that do survive after a 'dump' have been able to ... wait for it .... develop a new culture relevant to their needs and benefits in consideration of the new circumstances they are in. Thus can take a lot more time than any 'dump' disruption took . This can be done as well . I dont think a man anywhere , with no relevant local culture survives well from any sort of 'dump'. We had a reversal here, they made a tv doco about it . Old Aboriginal man was challenged by two guys; 'professional survivalists' types, with all modern cons and backups , but they had to walk across the desert and scrub and 'mountains' (large rugged rocky hills ) from one place to another , several hundred kilometers . 'Old Backfella' ? He will just walk by himself with what he could carry. What the heck ? No probs, he done that heaps of times ... let's see who wins . (Oh Karl would LOVE this ! ) Too long, to funny to recount .... the Yank even cheated ! Embarrassingly so ... the idiot eve tried to tow a water tank behind him from a chest harness ! The best part was when both the Euros were just about out of the comp . The Yank was literally crying and saying 'I give up, call in the back up truck ! " The organizers were about to call the whole thing off, too dangerous , then ... what about that old Aboriginal man ? We better go look for him and make sure he is okay . Eventually after a day they found him, middle of the day snoozing under a low tree, beside a rock . They wake him up . "What are you doing asleep, its a race , you arent suppose to go at your normal carefree rate ... ts a race , whoever gets there first ." " Huh ? I was sleeping . What are you talking about ? Its the middle of the day! " then he thinks a bit and realizes " Oh no ! Your guys are not sleeping at the night time and walking at day ... what on earth for ? They get sun, hot, dehrydrated . Walk at night cool, shady everywhere, beautiful too, go by starlight. tell them to do that " " Oh right ! But then .... you might not win ." "Win ? I dont want anyone to die out here ."

I note you say "Dont want to destroy" ... and you say I am 'fast and loose' ..... why didnt you write ' we dont destroy' . Where on earth Karl did I ever say modern life and western civilization has no advantages and I dont want any part of it ? Unless you are again assuming it was in posts that you skipped over as you have no need to read them as you "knew where the conversation was going anyway " ? again with the 'Nungers dont like or appreciate modern life ' trip ... thats right , make up more stuff about this weird fake 'dossier' you have built up for me ... then you can criticize how silly my traits are I will contemplate this as I sit in the outback looking out to the highway to the long line of traffic trucks , hating and failing at modern life and all the time wanting to 'play Indians', all fueled by my New Age fantasies of an urban Aussie boy ....

You nailed it ! You cant but help see everyone, even throughout history past and future being reflections of Karl. Of course YOU would be dead in 24 hours. people working with that environment instead of against it . Its like you x=cant conceive of any possibility beyond your own experience ! Voila ! ... and therein lies your problem and what is at the bottom of your lack of comprehension in these matters ! Indeed thou art Callicles, even in your approach to nature life the universe and 'everything' ; " man has never and will never be in harmony with nature. Man is not given anything by nature, he has to use his mind and body to survive within nature. The planet is a place of potential resource only and we have to fight to survive upon its surface " Every indigenous person that was ever suppressed by 'empire' is wincing or turning in their graves at that one ! I am not even going to bother explaining how wrong it is, or why it is wrong and what calamity that attitude has lead to as I now know none of that would make a shred of difference to your attitude. I was right in my first reaction to your first comment back when I did , I read you right after all . But thanks for the clarity on your viewpoint . Now I really know where you are coming from .

..... Ahhhh . now I get it ... the guy got a little demo of chi .... which he thought should be impossible. But it happened and he got scared for a Christian (like him) ..... if it aint Jesus 'bendin things' .... must be the 'other guy' working through his teachers .

but Dr Karl, that is why I expanded the idea so much and used the term harmony with nature and explained how we rely on it - air and water mate ,,, our food. Thats why I posted the enviro degradation pics, etc etc and what ? You dont get it, you pull the lets make out Nungers to be new age fairy trip .... gong ! from a term you might even have used first (cant be bothered checking now )

yeah ... wait ! First I thought .... yeah nice .... but then , doubt snuck in. I remembered this date I went on once ; Did I just get told goodnight .... " that was a nice exchange of thoughts .... but anyway ..... "

I am happy with that, But being a fuss pot I would say the origin of 'mankind' lies in the things that the slime evolved into ... and then mixed with 'other stuff ' ( I like the term ' a factor infinite and unknown ' ) ... some call it God, Space Turtles , comet delivered, whatever . . . because Mankind is unlike all those other critters , in a special way , that came out of that algae. Thats what "mankind; is about, not just our animal origins but what made us and makes us different . So there is the physical stuff, but there is the stuff that makes us different . That is what anthropology tries to discover and know about.

karl, its all to confused to continue as I have, so in brief; yes they did and still know a lot of things, the value of knowledge lies in the facts of how long they survive in successful cultures, from an anthropological perspective that is. Then yes, you 'paraphrased' . There is no side track into 'relative merits' its all about relative merits . It isnt a different argument it is the original one I was making that resulted from your brief and rather ignorant first comment that I reacted against but now you have explained some things a bit clearer than that. Re the invasion; its a toss up. The cultural dynamic operating in this isolated mini-world ( over 600 inter related culture/language 'groups' actually ) that allowed successful and such long term cultures due to its relative isolation and highly regulated periods of input (more than one 'wave' of Aboriginal migration into Australia ) that , somehow, resulted in their great and long term success may be balanced against the isolated vulnerability that eventuated is yet to be fully played out, its still underway. So there is no final out come on that yet. Personally, I hope to see the best of both worlds and in harmony with nature and the environment . I am glad to have left the city, I never said I wasnt nor did I say I wasnt in the above . I said , well, what i said , Dude,, stop paraphrasing and jumping to conclusions, I am not 'someone else' I am the guy that IS glad every day I left the ' city ' - even though in the past I had great fun there , but it aint like that no more ! : Beep beep :

Junko .... I can here wild dingoes howling across the river up in the rainforest tonight Maybe they are saying thank yooooooou - oooooooooouuuuu ! ?

Longer. I plan t make a memorial out of it !

You seemed to be saying oxygen was made on earth in the oceans . I said twernt. I knew all the stuff about photosynthesis and agrred with you, but there was more to it and you seemed to be opposing that there was . there was NO 'converted into' in the begginning, I bought that into it . You guys are funny, Karl is classic in that he 'figured it all out again' ..... anyway Its all JIM'S FAULT , he started it .... speaking of whom ... where is he .....

Ah yes ... OH the quote function is actually working ! Ah yes BUT .... that is pretty much hard science, so its easy to agree , the science I am dealing in is soft science (anthropology ) so more easy to find a disagreement . Especially when one side is anthropology and the other is ... well .... Callicles .

Oh , Karl, I missed this bit ' " I'm trying to show you that man doesn't work like that, despite how you wish it, I don't say it's perfect, it's not perfect for you, but no one stops you moving to an area and living a Stone Age existence if that's what appeals, it just doesn't appeal to me, I see it as entirely a retrograde step, but I note you haven't given up on your 21st century computer technology :-) " I dont know what you mean by 'man does not work like that ' . Man modern men and groups and companies are developing our technology towards working in harmony with the planet and nature , after all, it does sustain us . Did you read my series of posts a while back about USA and UK scientists working with the indigenous elders and their knowledge in NW South America ? The scientists acknowledge what the indigenous tell them to do works, but they do not understand how it works. But they are desperate fro results, results win, every time , science or not. The same way blushwood berry juice shrivels a cancerous tumor and causes it drop off in days AND then has another substance to rapidly heal the after sore. It hapenned in front of the scientists eyes, repeatedly, in lab conditions. Cant argue with results. What has me on my computer got to do with anything, Are you suggesting that when I go and visit indigenous friends that live a fairly trad lifestyle that I long to live like that and be one of them ? You have to be kidding, I would be speared in the leg within the week . The only reason I havent been is I am a visitor, and they are polite and welcoming and hospitiale . Live with them as one of them ... no thanks ! But then again, you appear to know all this about me before I said any of this, eh ? Jumping ahead without reading because you know how it is all panning out anyway.