Nungali

Of course it isnt rational. I am still suspicious and wary of you Stosh ... I keep thinking you are going to steal my chips ...

I had the wonderful experience to be able to address that ... I taught a life skills course for year 9 and 10 . At first, even the school council couldnt comprehend what I was on about ... I explained it like this ; There are many skills needed to get by and have a good life, one person might learn something very valuable, from, say, studying philosophy, anthropology, etc, but if a child does not graduate, or go to University or chooses another career, they will miss out on that, and a whole lot of other stuff. After a while, the case I presented was accepted ; the curriculum was based on a 4 elemental model ; fire - individuality, inspiration, individuation, moving towards adulthood .... 'spirituality' (from an eclectic perspective). water - emotions and feelings , how they effect us ... the difference between and emotive reaction and an intellectual response ( we had some funny 'psycho drama; with that ) , and other stuff. air - intellect, how to learn better ( any thing from identifying 'learning types' through to gaining reading comprehension, looking at how we learn, speed reading , etc . earth - physicality ; health * , nutrition and cooking, building a shelter and construction (bamboo ) ... martial arts (aikido seemed the best for it ) , middle eastern drumming .... heaps of stuff . I also got paid for taking them swimming down the river ... most days (also the school adjoins our property , I could 'commute' to work by walking barefoot over the fields, or even jumping in the river (in summer, your cloths will be dry in 15 minutes when you get out ) and floating downstream to work. The school was on the riverfront ... and a pretty amazing structure. That was a GREAT job ! (edit ... pics been up long enough - that was my location,)

Thanks Marbles ! I just understood why I dont do hate ..... yes, that could 'ferment ' (breed) hate . I either get revenge , know I am going to get revenge at a future more suitable date (so, its sorted, just waiting for the best time * ) or drop it . * like the other night when I had to do a quick and urgent trip to the dry composting loo ... the kids had filled it to the brim with spiky sugarcane mulch .... which of course I didnt notice in the dark ... so I sat right on it .... and with no where for the **** to go but ...... ( I will spare you the details ) . Didnt say a word ... I will wait till they have the runs or something, are on the can then steal the toilet paper

Nearly every lost, deserted, evacuated, city/ civilization I have looked into seems to have been because of (aside from war ) climate change and lack of water. You haven't got water .... you have to leave real quick. No one is going to delver pallet loads of bottled water to you back then.

Just dont ask for a decision by jury ...... OMG! that IS scary ! Judge to Nungali and other juror's ; " We rely on decisions of guilty or not guilty by having them made by a panel of 12 people randomly selected from the community ." ie. people not trained in law, evaluation of evidence, etc, etc .

I dont do hate .

... and as a secondary ref. Fredrik Hiebert, an archaeologist with the National Geographic Society and formerly a professor of anthropology at the University of Pennsylvania, who conducted a 1988 dig in the Kara Kum Desert, says that one of the reasons why Pumpelly has been ignored by other archaeologists was their need to defend established theories and resulting bias. In 1904, Mesopotamia, Egypt, and the Mediterranean were the accepted great centres of civilization. "So why in the world would Pumpelly have gone to Turkmenistan to look for civilization? To his peers, it made no sense; people couldn't comprehend it." (so I can throw in a bit of 'mild conspiracy' there ... I certainly could not leave THAT out of the book Hiebert returned to Turkmenistan in 1993 following Turkmenistan's independence from Russia, this time choosing to work at Anau in collaboration with a Turkmen colleague, Dr. Murad Kurbansakhatov. In 1996, digging in the same kurgan (or tepe / depe meaning mound) Pumpelly had dug in 1904, Hiebert notes: "We dug further down than Pumpelly had been able to do, and what we found was a confirmation of everything he believed." There was early evidence of civilization in the form of farming - specifically, tiny grains of white wheat, proof, says Hiebert, that the Turkmen people were engaged in agricultural production as early as 6,500 years ago. Hiebert's wife, a zoo-archaeologist (who joined the dig just as Pumpelly's wife Eliza had 95 years earlier), discovered bones of domesticated animals. "So here we were, almost 100 years after Raphael Pumpelly had been here, confirming that he was right." There is a LOT of sand out there ... you never know what you find until you scrape it away

... The ground plan is in a circular pattern with concentric rings . It may have not 'sunk beneath the waves' but the waters and waves covered it at some stage. Then I would need to bring in some interesting character who had wacky ideas in the past about it .... and to explain why it has not been 'realized' before ... a type of Flinders Petrie character ( including some rather amazing artifacts from the area /era ) Enter Raphael Pumpelly (1837 - 1923 ) [ okay the above is all off the top of my head ... I hope you can now excuse a bit of cut and paste - except the pics and maps ] " More than a century ago an unlikely geologist from New York put forth a proposition that "the fundamentals of civilization - organized village life, agriculture, the domestication of animals, weaving," (including mining and metal work) "originated in the oases of Central Asia long before the time of Babylon." [/size] Raphael Pumpelly arrived at this conclusion after visiting Central Asia as a geologist and observing the ruins of cities on the ancient shorelines of huge, dried inland seas. By studying the geology of the area, he became one of the first individuals to investigate how environmental conditions could influence human settlement and culture. Pumpelly speculated that a large inland sea in central Asia might have once supported a sizeable population. He knew from his travels and study that the climate in Central Asia had become drier and drier since the time of the last ice age. As the sea began to shrink, it could have forced these people to move west, bringing civilization to westward and to the rest of the world. He hypothesized that the ruins of cities he saw were evidence of a great ancient civilization that existed when Central Asia was more wet and fertile than it is now. [/size] Such assertions that civilization as we know it originated in Central Asia sounded radical at a time when the names of Egypt and Babylon, regions connected to the Bible, were considered to be the cradle of civilization. But Raphael Pumpelly was persistent. Forty years after his first trip to Central Asia, he convinced the newly established Andrew Carnegie Foundation to fund an expedition. Since the Russians controlled Central Asia, he charmed the authorities in Saint Petersburg into granting him permission for an archaeological excavation. The latter even provided Pumpelly with a private railcar. At the age of 65, Pumpelly was given the opportunity to prove his theory and he wasted no time in starting his work.[/size] ( and more [/size]http://www.heritageinstitute.com/zoroastrianism/nisa/anau.htm#pumpelly ) Then jazz it up with another more recent one ... enter Viktor Sarianidi https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viktor_Sarianidi and find obscure academic references ; " University of Chicago's page on Archaeology and Language, The Indo-Iranians by C. C. Lamberg-Karlovsky: "This review of recent archaeological work in Central Asia and Eurasia attempts to trace and date the movements of the Indo-Iranians—speakers of languages of the eastern branch of Proto-Indo-European that later split into the Iranian and Vedic families. Russian and Central Asian scholars working on the contemporary but very different Andronovo and Bactrian Margiana archaeological complexes of the 2d millennium BCE have identified both as Indo-Iranian, and particular sites so identified are being used for nationalist purposes. There is, however, no compelling archaeological evidence that they had a common ancestor or that either is Indo-Iranian. Ethnicity and language are not easily linked with an archaeological signature, and the identity of the Indo-Iranians remains elusive." and bamboozle people with their qualifications ; ["C. C. Lamberg-Karlovsky is Stephen Philips Professor of Archaeology in the Department of Anthropology at Harvard University and Curator of Near Eastern Archaeology at Harvard's Peabody Museum (Cambridge, Mass. 02138, U.S.A.). Born in 1937, he was educated at Dartmouth College (B.A., 1959) and the University of Pennsylvania (M.A., 1964; Ph.D., 1965). His research interests concern the nature of the interaction between the Bronze Age civilizations of the Near East and their contemporary neighbors of the Iranian Plateau, the Indus Valley, the Arabian Peninsula, and Central Asia. His recent publications include Beyond the Tigris and Euphrates Bronze Age Civilizations (Tel Aviv: Ben Gurion University of the Negev Press, 1996) and (with Daniel Potts et al.) Excavations at Tepe Yahya, Iran: Third Millennium (American School of Prehistoric Research Bulletin 42)."] then tie it all together along with how the story got to Egypt by ..... Oooooo , let's see ...... travelling along the Lapis lazuli trade route from Bactria to Egypt .

As long as it isnt too sudden ... how 'sudden' was Atlantis' supposed demise ... I thought they had warning ? (or was that Krypton ? ) Here is the scenario; in an arc from the NE of Iran from the Kopet-Dag Mts and down into the Kara-kum desert , to the east through Afghanistan / Turkmenistan , around to the north east skirting the Oxus valley and headwaters , up to the Pamirs and western Kunlun mountains there is a vast network of valleys and rivers going down into (now) drier lands that held delta settlements (some .deltas fanning out into desert - like modern day Hotan on the silk route ) . These lands are full of ancient ruins that have been little explored. First , there was a big chill (the early part of their history ) then a thaw , this fed a lot of the drainage basin and the rivers and deltas where the settlements where Gonur north Gonur south Then , I am imagining the 'broken ice dams' scenarios, creating massive downstream floods - I did have one image with ruins as above, a whole half of them are wiped out with a giant dry river channel running through it, there is an older river channel nearby and one can see how it changed course and wiped out the settlement - but damned if I can find that pic or the name of the place now . When one looks at the land form of the whole Oxus basin, this could have happened in many places. After this drought began to set in or was already beginning (,,,, to be continued - visitors )

very good 9 / 10 here is today's joke :

Eh ... what ?

Have we considered climate change ? The above suggestions may not be viable in light of that . If we do consider climate change into the future and do want to find a location for 'New Atlantis' I suggest this island: Main Island, lakes mountains, small islands, a channel / harbor right through the middle .... away from the rest of the world ... heaps of resources ... fishing ....

No ... it will probably fade away as fast as a Jupiterian ghost

Oh yeah .... I remember on of the little guys having a problem learning to ask for things. He finally got it , then I had to explain ( after a while ) the next step .... be prepared to accept a 'no'. " But ... I asked nicely ! " ahhh, patience is a virtue (one I find easier to practice with children )

Not another one ! String him up boys !

So .... you dont really answer questions about clarifying what you wrote earlier, eh ? Its the 'old dont answer questions about the wild speculations I made previously, and add even more unanswered and wild speculations on top of them ' trick .....

Hmmm ... that might make a tad more sense if you wrote it with some syntax ?

maybe not ..... if you asked an ancient Egyptian from a certain time and a certain social class, they might answer "To serve Pharaoh" or " the ordinary people do not have an after life, that is for the King". I think we have to find what is relevant for us . But yes, there is a LOT to find out from them .... they are a crucial aspect of 'humanity' and history. And they showed that a diverse and 'multi-ethnic' society can achieve wonders, if managed in the 'right' way.

I dont know if I am or not. I will leave that up to others to 'judge' However I do live the life of a ' Taoist Magician '. Today ... I may go fishing. I found a tasty grub on the damp path early this morning. The fishing gear is out on the porch. Later I may wander downhill to the river with the gear and grub. I will find a nice spot and drop the line in and let the current take it past the big submerged log that I know about. The bass under there may decide to take it. Or not ... in any case I will sit by the river for a while, learning more about the way of 'nature' by observing the flow of the river and the water through the rapids, the tiny azure kingfishers plunging in and extracting fish ... the movement of swimming eels ....

What planet ? or is this just a speculative thought ? How can a being both ... 'not exist' but also be like everybody else ( " they aren't different from anybody else " ) and yeah ..... what is a 'ghost body' ?

The Egyptians ? Sure. But it is hard to know what they DID know , exactly. A lot of it is cryptic and obscure. I find the Zoroastrian writings easier to comprehend, they show great knowledge of Mankind , although physically limited in extent of knowledge about the 'whole world' ( up to the late Bronze Age where the first part of their story ends ... the 'Gap in Aryan History' - 'Late Bronze Age Collapse' ? ) .... they have excellent knowledge of Mankind's psyche and how to construct and order a way of life to get best advantage to the people in that way of life. Essentially, mankind's psyche has not changed that much since then .... we just operate under different social and technological 'metaphors' .

The Egyptian is wearing the King's crown ... Anpu is bringing (the ank of ) life to the deceased Pharaoh's lips / breath . Anubis / Anpu is associated with funeral right and the preparation of the body for the after life. ... the journey through the underworld, the weighing of the heart ;

Junko, your thread has gone 148 pages so far ! Allow me to present you with an award - choose any three you like https://au.pinterest.com/pin/93731235972817339/