Nungali

Show Off !

I saw a doco last night on world's best diets. France scored high - but they eat lots of red meat, cheese, bread, alcohol - but little crap food, they prefer it fresh and local, produce cycles through rapidly, they also eat a lot of duck fat and other good fats, have a good balance of poly and unsaturated fats .... and take two hours for lunch to relax, appreciate, enjoy, settle and have 2 glasses of wine. Remember these ? What the world eats - 1 family in 1 week ; https://www.google.com.au/search?q=what+the+world+eats&espv=2&rlz=1C1CHBF_enAU699AU699&biw=1366&bih=667&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwidv-2Y_fTNAhWBs5QKHZs5CesQ_AUIBigB&dpr=1 I think Turkey topped it ? ( except for the Coke hidden under the table )

A different view but in a similar area from a more reliable source " ... archaeology is demolishing another sacred belief: that human history over the past million years has been a long tale of progress. In particular, recent discoveries suggest that the adoption of agriculture, supposedly our most decisive step toward a better life, was in many ways a catastrophe from which we have never recovered. " http://discovermagazine.com/1987/may/02-the-worst-mistake-in-the-history-of-the-human-race

... coincidentally, this just in - yesterday ; https://www.sciencenews.org/article/two-groups-spread-early-agriculture?tgt=nr which goes some way to affirming some basic assumptions I made to develop my wacky ideas I ran it by a professional in the field and they affirmed that some findings in the area show evidence of my assumptions. Mine : Abstract We sequenced Early Neolithic genomes from the Zagros region of Iran (eastern Fertile Crescent), where some of the earliest evidence for farming is found, and identify a previously uncharacterized population that is neither ancestral to the first European farmers nor has contributed significantly to the ancestry of modern Europeans. These people are estimated to have separated from Early Neolithic farmers in Anatolia some 46-77,000 years ago and show affinities to modern day Pakistani and Afghan populations, but particularly to Iranian Zoroastrians. We conclude that multiple, genetically differentiated hunter-gatherer populations adopted farming in SW-Asia, that components of pre-Neolithic population structure were preserved as farming spread into neighboring regions, and that the Zagros region was the cradle of eastward expansion. ( from linked article) Nungers; " Of course they do ( ... one of my favorite subjects ! ) . They had a 'proto-Empire' across that whole region at a VERY early time . It wasnt until 'history' began, way after their 'civilisation' collapsed and they somewhat 'devolved' socially, and began to infiltrate through the Zargos down into the southern planes where we first read historically of their existence , the proto Medes and Parsa , reported by the Assyrians. I think the Zargos may have formed a barrier that separated these peoples 'Empire' and their development and civilization from the further south Tigres and Euphrates rivers, flood plains and basin (although it appears part of their territory was the upper Tigres ). All our research re. first civilisation / farming /agriculture has been based on this area, the 'Vendid Nations' area pretty much missed out, only the north eastern bit has been looked into extensively, but not he western portions, until the 1970s ( Russia has done some research there ), but since then terrain and war makes it near impossible. & " Here is an alternative idea. 'Agriculture' started ( not, became well established ) much earlier than commonly thought. ( there is evidence of its beginnings here in Australia pre- white / Euro settlement .) and may have 'run alongside' or even been part of , hunter gatherer and nomadic communities. The early development of it in the Middle-East and Central Asia, in some instances may have developed under a different dynamic.; there was a lot of trade, and long-distance trade going on back then * the first settlements may have developed along and at the intersection of trade routes. One can make a living if one can somehow regulate or assist traders, This might have been a better option than a hunting and gathering nomadic life style ? * there is evidence of ochre, being mined by the Aboriginals here for thousands of years (up until 1950 ! ) at Wilgie Mia and transported as far as Arnhem Land http://www.ancient-origins.net/ancient-places-australia-oceania/wilgie-mia-ancient-mine-where-ochre-runs-red-kangaroo-blood-001425 Response : " Yep I got interested in the Zagros mountains about ten years ago and felt - based on the writings of others - that we would find some 'organized' cultures there. Here is a link to a village in Iran that is dated 10,000 BP Zawi Chemi Shanidar www.mnsu.edu... Zawi Chemi Shanidar is a unique archaeological site located in the Zagros Mountains by the Zab River of northern Iraq. Some anthropologists consider it to be pre-pottery Neolithic. It was inhabited between 10,000-9,000 B.C. This time period lies within both the Mesolithic era and the Neolithic era. The Mesolithic was known for Natufian Micro-flint blades. The beginnings of sea travel, early agriculture, and cave/wall paintings are also characteristics of the Mesolithic and of Zawi Chemi Shanidar. The Neolithic is known for “superior” agriculture, more trade and some of the earliest shrines. We see some of these characteristics within the Zawi Chemi Shanidar site as well. This shows that Zawi Chemi Shanidar cannot be placed exclusively into the Mesolithic or the Neolithic time period because it has characteristics of both. This particular site is likely to have been a seasonal village/campsite. It is considered seasonal because the inhabitants moved to where food was available on a seasonal basis. The people who inhabited the site were from the Karim Shahir Culture. This culture was seasonally nomadic, meaning they were nomadic and somewhat sedentary. The season determined whether they would be sedentary or nomadic. Again, these characteristics are from two different eras showing that Zawi Chemi Shanidar is Neolithic/Mesolithic. The Shanidarians lived in round or dome-like huts. These huts were approximately 13 feet in diameter. Some people believe that the inhabitants lived in subterranean houses, although the evidence for this type of house is somewhat scarce. They did have large storage pits dug into the ground, a characteristic of a more sedentary life-style. Their daily lives probably consisted of the normal hunter gatherer/sedentary tasks. The men hunted or herded animals. The archaeologists found primitive mills for grain or wheat. There is not much evidence for whether the grain or wheat was wild or cultivated. They also found larger grinding stones. The grinding activities was probably done by the women who also cared for the children. Furthermore, with the prevalence of large underground storage pits, larger querns, and grinding stones, it is assumed that the Shanidarians overused plants potentially affected the availability of these resource. This would further show that they could not inhabit Zawi Chemi Shanidar for extended periods. Along with grains in their diets, the people ate mostly wild game and sheep. There were a large number of young sheep bones found in the site. There are two possible explanations. Possibly, they were not killing the young sheep when hunting, rather they were taken back to Zawi Chemi Shanidar and herding them. Another interpretation is called “stock manipulation.” Some of the other artifacts found at Zawi Chemi Shanidar were a large number of beads, some made of copper. This does not mean that they could shape and mold copper, nor did they use copper for tools. There were also bird bone beads covered with intricate designs. This is interesting because this shows the beginning of decoration on the body with objects, not just paint. Along with the beads, there was obsidian found. This is not an indigenous rock, rather it is volcanic glass. The glass was believed to have come from the Lake Van area of Anatolia indicating contact via trade. Another interesting thing found at the site was a large round stone building. It is believed to have been a hut, probably for religious/ritualistic gatherings. There were 28 burials found at Zawi Chemi Shanidar. 26 of these burials had a stone platform incorporated in the burial site. " Apech asked ; " Anyway why are we discussing the late Bronze Age/Early Iron age when our Lord Lois opened a thread on Atlantis? " Isnt it obvious by now ? Nungali is tracking down the REAL origin of the Atlantis myth .... it was the Nations of the Vendidad 'collective' or 'Empire'. Now considering the origins of the 'proto-Greeks' (and even Greek affiliation with the early Achaemenids * and their connection in pre-history / mythology and other indicators ** .... The next step is to list the main points and ideas in the Atlantis myth and correlate them to the Vendidad, Shahnameh and Bundahishn stories main points and myths, cross-correlated to the geographical knowledge I gleaned in relation to the areas of settlement and updated with new archaeological and anthropological finds .... oh yeah, and how the story got to Egypt ... along the Lapis Lazuli trade route from the 'Aryan capitol' (country number 1, Airyana Vaja - up in the mountainous valleys of eastern 'Bactria' ) ... I am guessing . - Man ! This book is gonna outsell Duval and Handcock ! * https://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Iranian_History/The_Medes_and_the_Early_Achaemenids ** http://www.heritageinstitute.com/zoroastrianism/olympicflame/page2.htm & http://www.heritageinstitute.com/zoroastrianism/achaemenian/darius2.htm#greekallies

Must be crabby day or something around here ! ... so much for the kids and being understanding and tolerating their learning process

Oh ? You havent met Karl before ? Allow me

again - the violence. Did I miss something in the original post ? Why has the concept of being tolerant now considered among things we should not be tolerant about and thrown out generally because it somehow got attached to that ? . Is someone arguing we should be tolerant when we should not be ? Nungali confused.

How did violence get so entwined into this ?

Moral, never try to buy a kiwi at the supermarket check out .

Remove the chair and add a treadmill - no batteries needed. Hmmm ... some image is forming in the back of my mind - the treadmill of life, you run and run, the days pass quickly, you long to jump off and slow down and relax , there is always someone ready to pull the carpet out from under you .... Some manage it, others cant

Certainly my dear fellow ; When your avatar is in an area that allows damage to occur, a heart is shown at the top of your screen with the percentage of health. When this reaches 0%, you will be teleported to your home location. So the "death" isn't a permanent one, you don't lose any inventory and can return to the damage enabled region. http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Death

or, if you prefer I will just write down here " I formally challenge you ... " Right ... just one moment please ..... ... Damn ... wrong outfit ! Hang on a minute, I will be back ..... .... Thats better ... now, where where we ? " ... to write about this subject without any block quotes from wikipedia. I demand satisfaction. " You are on .... here we go ; What do you call a male sibling? If you speak English, he is your “brother.” Greek? Call him “phrater.” Sanskrit, Latin, Old Irish? “Bhrater,” “frater,” or “brathir,” respectively. Ever since the mid-17th century, scholars have noted such similarities among the so-called Indo-European languages, which span the world and number more than 400 if dialects are included. Researchers agree that they can probably all be traced back to one ancestral language, called Proto-Indo-European (PIE). But for nearly 20 years, scholars have debated vehemently when and where PIE arose. Two long-awaited studies, one described online this week in a preprint and another scheduled for publication later this month, have now used different methods to support one leading hypothesis: that PIE was first spoken by pastoral herders who lived in the vast steppe lands north of the Black Sea beginning about 6000 years ago. One study points out that these steppe land herders have left their genetic mark on most Europeans living today. The studies’ conclusions emerge from state-of-the-art ancient DNA and linguistic analyses, but the debate over PIE’s origins is likely to continue. A rival hypothesis—that early farmers living in Anatolia (modern Turkey) about 8000 years ago were the original PIE speakers—is not ruled out by the new analyses, most agree. Although the steppe hypothesis has now received a major boost, “I would not say the Anatolian hypothesis has been killed,” says Carles Lalueza-Fox, a geneticist at Pompeu Fabra University in Barcelona, Spain, who participated in neither of the new studies. Up until the 1980s, variations of the steppe hypothesis held sway among most linguists and archaeologists tracking down Indo-European’s birthplace. Then in 1987, archaeologist Colin Renfrew of the University of Cambridge in the United Kingdom proposed that PIE spread with farming from its origins in the Fertile Crescent of the Middle East, moving west into Europe and east further into Asia; over time the languages continued to spread and diversify into the many Indo-European languages we know today. Traditional linguists, meanwhile, painstakingly reconstructed PIE by extrapolating back from modern languages and ancient writings. (Listen to a short fable spoken in PIE here.) They disdained Renfrew’s idea of an Anatolian homeland, arguing for example that the languages were still too similar to have begun diverging 8000 years ago. But many archaeologists noted that genetic and archaeological studies did indeed suggest massive ancient migrations from the Middle East into Europe that could have brought PIE and sparked such language diversification. In 2003, evolutionary biologists Russell Gray and Quentin Atkinson of the University of Auckland in New Zealand used computational methods from evolutionary biology to track words as they changed over time, and concluded that the Anatolian hypothesis was right. But steppe supporters remained unconvinced, even after Gray’s team published a confirming analysis in Science in 2012. Fans of the steppe hypothesis are now hailing a genetics study that used ancient DNA from 69 Europeans who lived between 8000 and 3000 years ago to genetically track ancient population movements. The work, now posted on the bioRxiv preprint server, was done by a large team led by geneticists David Reich and Iosif Lazaridis of Harvard Medical School in Boston and Wolfgang Haak of the University of Adelaide in Australia. Among the team’s samples were nine ancient individuals—six males, two females, and a child of undetermined sex—from the Yamnaya culture north of the Black Sea in today’s Russia. Beginning about 6000 years ago, these steppe people herded cattle and other animals, buried their dead in earthen mounds called kurgans, and may have created some of the first wheeled vehicles. (Many linguists think PIE already had a word for “wheel.”) The team also retrieved ancient DNA from four skeletons from the later Corded Ware culture of central Europe, known for the distinctive pottery for which they are named (see photo above), as well as their dairy farming skills. Archaeologists had noted similarities among these cultures, especially in their emphasis on cattle herding. The team focused on sections of DNA that they suspected would provide markers for past population movements and identified nearly 400,000 DNA positions across the genome in each individual. They used new techniques to zero in on the key positions in the nuclear DNA, allowing them to analyze twice as many ancient nuclear DNA samples from Europe and Asia as previously reported in the entire literature. The comparison of the two cultures’ DNA showed that the four Corded Ware people could trace an astonishing three-quarters of their ancestry to the Yamnaya. That suggests a massive migration of Yamnaya people from their steppe homeland into central Europe about 4500 years ago, one that could have spread an early form of the Indo-European language, the team concludes. Thus the paper for the first time links two far-flung material cultures to specific genetic signatures and to each other—and suggests, the team says, that they spoke a form of Indo-European. The Corded Ware culture soon spread across north and central Europe, extending as far as today’s Scandinavia. So the “steppe ancestry,” as the authors of the preprint call it, is found in most present-day Europeans, who can trace their ancestry back to both the Corded Ware people and the earlier Yamnaya. The work thus adds to genetic findings from last fall showing that the genetic makeup of today’s Europeans is more complicated than anyone expected. The results are a “smoking gun” that an ancient migration into Europe from the steppe occurred, says Pontus Skoglund, an ancient DNA specialist who is now working in Reich’s lab but was not a co-author on the paper. (Although the paper is publicly available on a preprint server, it is not yet published, and the authors declined to discuss their work until it’s published.) The paper “levels the playing field between the steppe hypothesis and the Anatolian hypothesis by showing that the spread of farming was not the only large migration into Europe,” Skoglund says. The second new paper to address PIE’s origin, in press at Language and due to be published online during the last week of February, uses linguistic data to focus on when PIE arose. A team led by University of California, Berkeley, linguists Andrew Garrett and Will Chang employed the language database and evolutionary methods previously used by Gray to create a family tree of the Indo-European languages from their first origins in PIE. But in certain cases, Garrett and Chang’s group declared that one language was directly ancestral to another and put that into their tree as a certainty. For example, they assumed that Latin was directly ancestral to Romance languages such as Spanish, French, and Italian—something that many but not all linguists agree on—and that Vedic Sanskrit was directly ancestral to the Indo-Aryan languages spoken on the Indian subcontinent. These constraints transformed the results from what Gray’s team has published: Garrett, Chang, and their colleagues found that the origins of PIE were about 6000 years ago, consistent with the steppe hypothesis but not the Anatolian, because the farming migration out of the Middle East was 8000 years ago. Once the original PIE speakers began to sweep out of the steppes about 4500 years ago, their languages spread and diversified, Garrett’s team says. But many supporters of the Anatolian hypothesis remain staunchly unconvinced. Paul Heggarty, a linguist at the Max Planck Institute for Evolutionary Anthropology in Leipzig, Germany, questions Garrett’s methods, arguing that, for example, linguists cannot be sure if the Latin attested to in written documents really was the direct ancestor of later Romance languages, rather than some dialect of Latin for which no record remains. Even small differences in the true ancestral language, Heggarty insists, could throw off the timing estimates. As for the Reich paper, many archaeologists and linguists praise the data on ancient migrations. But they challenge what they see as its speculative link to language. The movement out of the steppes, Renfrew says, “may be a secondary migration into central Europe 3000 to 4000 years later than the spread of farmers, which first brought Indo-European speech to Europe.” If so, the Yamnaya steppe people would not have spoken PIE but an already derived Indo-European tongue ancestral to today’s Balto-Slavic languages such as Russian and Polish, Heggarty says. He adds that the wording of the Reich paper is “misleading.” Indeed, in a lengthy discussion in the paper’s Supplementary Information section, Reich and colleagues do concede that “the ultimate question of the Proto-Indo-European homeland is unresolved by our data.” They suggest that more ancient DNA, especially from points east of the steppes, may finally tie our linguistic history with our genes. ..... not one word from Wikipedia ! " Anyway why are we discussing the late Bronze Age/Early Iron age when our Lord Lois opened a thread on Atlantis? " 1. because this is more interesting 2. Because Lois is dead - terrible train wreck in Moscow last tuesday, just after lunch. Lois wasnt on the train though, he was watching from a distance and fell right into an open manhole. . 3. It wasnt me who bought it up anyway , if you read carefully through every post of the last 10 pages you will see . 4. I'm really just killing time till Micheal returns with the new info abut Atlantis he was going to get from his new books (I mean I WAS patiently waiting but he tried to close the right flank on me by trying to get that old Plato army trick up .

.... hmmmmm - annoying local new age quip ; "Oh Man, you are so judgmental of me ! Dont judge me man ! " Me; 'I'm not ... I am just remembering what you did last time we tried this - no thanks! " But IS tolerance the antithesis of judgement ? I would say judgment is a process and tolerance is one outcome ... the other 'antithesis' is ; nope ! Now your gonna get it ! I like the way Liber Librae ( The Book of the balance) puts it ; Remember that unbalanced force is evil; that unbalanced severity is but cruelty and oppression; but that also unbalanced mercy is but weakness which would allow and abet Evil.

Quote ? I just made it up.

Junko's 'Treadmill '

Hopefully the quote thingo will be sorted soon ... its unfortunate as you may have missed a wealth of information contained in my posts here is another way of looking at your post above - I hope you dont mind if I rewrite it a bit ? There is certain evidence (in the earliest Vedas and the Avestas - most noticeably in 'The Vendidad; and epic / heroic / cyclic tales like 'The Shamaneh' and of course the famous 'treaty' * ) of contact and trade between the Indus Valley Culture (known to the P.I.E. / Aryan peoples as 'Hapta Hindu ' - the 'Upper Indus' { and also other 'nations' in the area; Harahvaiti - Kandahar , Vaekereta - Kabul , and others south of the Hindu Kush } ) and (particularly northern ) 'Mesopotamia', with the 'nations' known as ' Ranghaya or Rangha - Upper Tigris { and other nations north of the Zargos along the southern shores of the Caspian Sea. As I wrote above, there seemed no infiltration into lower Tigris / Euphrates , and through the Zargos to the south until much later, when 'Medes' began to penetrate through the Zargos and become known to the Assyrians . We can see how the land form may have helped define, separate and allow trade routes between these people ( Zargos in green ) ; The origin of the Aryan culture is of course disputed but whatever AM theory is right it seems certain to me that there was a lot of integration with late Harrapan and the Aryan tribes. Yep, I agree. That is until the 'Great War of Religion' period. For instance the Saraswati River is the most mentioned river in the Rg Veda and geologist have identified a dried up river valley flowing parallel to the Indus which dried up about 1900 BC - while the date of the Rg Veda is usually given as 1200 BC - suggesting much longer periods of settling and integration. * Some theonyms, proper names and other terminology of the Mitanni are considered to form (part of) an Indo-Aryan superstrate, suggesting that an Indo-Aryan elite imposed itself over the Hurrian population in the course of the Indo-Aryan expansion. In a treaty between the Hittites and the Mitanni (between Suppiluliuma and Shattiwaza, c. 1380 BC), the deities Mitra, Varuna, Indra, and Nasatya (Ashvins) are invoked. Kikkuli's horse training text (circa 1400 BC) includes technical terms such as aika (Vedic Sanskrit eka, one), tera (tri, three), panza (pañca, five), satta (sapta, seven), na (nava, nine),vartana (vartana, round). The numeral aika "one" is of particular importance because it places the superstrate in the vicinity of Indo-Aryan proper (Vedic Sanskrit eka, with regular contraction of /ai/ to [eː]) as opposed to Indo-Iranian or early Iranian (which has *aiva; compare Vedic eva "only") in general. Another text has babru(-nnu) (babhru, brown), parita(-nnu) (palita, grey), and pinkara(-nnu) (pingala, red). Their chief festival was the celebration of the solstice (vishuva) which was common in most cultures in the ancient world. The Mitanni warriors were called marya (Hurrian: maria-nnu), the term for (young) warrior in Sanskrit as well;[1] note mišta-nnu (= miẓḍha,~ Sanskrit mīḍha) "payment (for catching a fugitive)" (Mayrhofer II 358). Sanskritic interpretations of Mitanni names render Artashumara (artaššumara) as Arta-smara "who thinks of Arta/Ṛta" (Mayrhofer II 780), Biridashva (biridašṷa, biriiašṷa) as Prītāśva "whose horse is dear" (Mayrhofer II 182), Priyamazda (priiamazda) as Priyamedha "whose wisdom is dear" (Mayrhofer II 189, II378), Citrarata as citraratha "whose chariot is shining" (Mayrhofer I 553), Indaruda/Endaruta as Indrota "helped by Indra" (Mayrhofer I 134), Shativaza (šattiṷaza) as Sātivāja "winning the race price" (Mayrhofer II 540, 696), Šubandhu as Subandhu 'having good relatives" (a name in Palestine, Mayrhofer II 209, 735), Tushratta (tṷišeratta, tušratta, etc.) as *tṷaišaratha, Vedic Tveṣaratha "whose chariot is vehement" (Mayrhofer I 686, I 736). Archaeologists have attested a striking parallel in the spread to Syria of a distinct pottery type associated with what they call the Kura-Araxes culture.[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indo-Aryan_superstrate_in_Mitanni ( hope you didnt write that as well ) ... and *Chakhrem is used in Yasht 13.89 and means wheel (or revolving; cf. Persian charkh meaning wheel) and is used there as chakhrem urvaesayata in the context of Zarathushtra being the first member of every professional guild opposed to the daevas. Avestan Chakhrem urvaesayata is similar to the Sanskrit chakhram vartay and chakhravartin meaning 'chariot over the land' or 'ruler'. The western Mitanni were known for their expertise in chariot-building and this may or may not have relevance. ** The seven Indus Rivers, Hapta Hindu (nation #15 above), are: 1. the Indus (Veda-Sindhu), the 2. Kabul and 3. Kurram rivers joining on the west and north banks of the Indus, and the 4. Jhelum (Veda-Vitasta), 5. Chenab (Veda-Asikni), 6. Ravi (Veda-Airovati), and 7. Sutlej/Beas (Veda-Vipasa) rivers joining the Indus' east and south banks. (There is some discussion that the Saraswati River mentioned in Hindu Vedic texts was also an Indus tributary - though this is not clear.) The Hindu texts are mainly concerned with the eastern & southern tributaries while the Zoroastrian texts are concerned with the upper reaches of the Indus and all its tributaries whose valleys would have provided access to the plains - areas north and west of the Punjab (Panj-ab meaning five waters in Persian) - i.e. present-day North-West Frontier Province in Northern Pakistan, Northern Punjab and Kashmir in India and Pakistan. *** Gandhara/Waihind. The land of the upper Indus basin was known as Gandhara or Waihind. Today, the region has Peshawar, Mardan, Mingora and Chitral as its main cities. It would have extended into all the habitable valleys of the south-eastern Hindu Kush. The Gandhara/Waihind region includes the Indus, Swat, Chitral and Kabul River valleys. It may have extended south to Takshashila (Taxila) (near present-day Islamabad) and present-day Jalalabad, Afghanistan, in the west, thus bordering Vaekerata (Kabul) to the east. http://www.heritageinstitute.com/zoroastrianism/aryans/airyanavaeja.htm There is also the origin of the 'caste system' , very similar between Iranian surviving Zoroastrians and Hindus, differences are the Zoroastrian version is not set by birth, and it is also seen as a rite of passage that women can do, in Iran, initiated women and men wear the red thread as well and partake equally in the ceremonies .

Exactly ! I wasnt going to post that I saw it as a journey through the psyche (modified by local geography, 'religion', cultural mores and taboos ) .... but, there it is ^ . I do get it, it is a very old concept and STILL believed in here .... it got mistranslated and misinterpreted somewhat when someone translated the various language group terms for it into 'Dreamtime' . Thanks for the explanation linking Nut and Geb , for some reason I had not thought of that . Do say more.... I dont think Lois will be too upset at the OT . ...

The crazy thing about Hiro first stopping time was ... he did it at work ! ... think it through man !

That didnt answer my question either ... maybe you should add your own comment to show what significance you think this extract has .... dont leave it up in the air for me to interpret , I will interpret it my way then .

I know that . But that doesnt answer my question. Is not the Duat an 'underworld' realm , does not it describe a journey similar to those found on earth and not among the stars ? There are one or two references to a 'star journey' but mostly it is earthly like supernatural trails and tests. In any case the Egyptian concept of Duat is flelxable and changed over time ... in any case : (Regardless of its name .... I mean 'underworld' isnt literally down there in the lava. ) " The geography of Duat is similar in outline to the world the Egyptians knew. There are realistic features like rivers, islands, fields, lakes, mounds and caverns, along with fantastic lakes of fire, walls of iron and trees of turquoise" " In hour 1 the sun god enters the western horizon (akhet) which is a transition between day and night. In hours 2 and 3 he passes through an abundant watery world called 'Wernes' and the 'Waters of Osiris'. In hour 4 he reaches the difficult sandy realm of Sokar, the underworld hawk deity, where he encounters dark zig zag pathways which he has to negotiate, being dragged on a snake-boat. In hour 5 he discovers the tomb of Osiris which is an enclosure beneath which is hidden a lake of fire, the tomb is covered by a pyramid like mound (identified with the goddess Isis) and on top of which Isis and Nephthys have alighted in the form of two kites (birds of prey). In the sixth hour the most significant event in the underworld occurs. The ba (or soul) of Ra unites with his own body, or alternatively with the ba of Osiris within the circle formed by the mehen serpent. This event is the point at which the sun begins its regeneration; it is a moment of great significance, but also danger, as beyond it in hour 7 the adversaryApep (Apophis) lies in wait and has to be subdued by the magic of Isis, and the strength of Set assisted by Serqet. Once this has been done the sun god opens the doors of the tomb in hour 8 and then leaves the sandy island of Sokar by rowing vigorously back into the waters in hour 9. In hour 10 the regeneration process continues through immersion in the waters until in hour 11 the god's eyes (a symbol for his health and well being) are fully regenerated. In hour 12 he enters the eastern horizon ready to rise again as the new day's sun." - Amduat " It narrates the passage of a newly deceased soul into the next world, corresponding to the journey of the sun through the underworld during the hours of the night. The soul is required to pass through a series of 'gates' at different stages in the journey. Each gate is associated with a different goddess, and requires that the deceased recognise the particular character of that deity. The text implies that some people will pass through unharmed, but that others will suffer torment in a lake of fire. " - The Book of Gates. " The Book of Caverns is an important Ancient Egyptian netherworld book of the New Kingdom.[1] Like all other netherworld books, it is also attested on the inside of kings’ tombs for the benefit of the deceased. It describes the journey of the sun god Ra through the six caverns of the underworld, focusing on the interaction between the sun god and the inhabitants of the netherworld, including rewards for the righteous and punishments for the enemies of the worldly order, those who fail their judgment in the afterlife. The Book of Caverns is one of the best sources of information about the Egyptian concept of hell." - The Book of Caverns. Its mostly about defeating the Apech serpent ..... I mean the Apep serpent .

Har har . https://i.ytimg.com/vi/kdOPBP9vuZA/hqdefault.jpg

Ahhh ... here is another 'contribution', although somewhat different from Marbleheads and one more intellectually appreciated ...