Nungali

No I am not saying its a mental program at all. if anything it is a genetic program See .... you did it again !

Dont waste the corn Karl, I find I have a seemingly irresolvable communication problem with you, so debate jut seems to lead to confusion. I notice I am not the only one that seems to feel that with you. I will try once more to be clear, without you changing my words to terms you can refute: yes, thats better. I had issue with the overall statement, now you have narrowed it down ( this happened last miscommunication too ) . No, I didnt say we did. But I didnt say they had skills and flaws built in m I said quite clearly : " I am talking about my essential nature, 'style' , 'spirit', 'personality' , inherent skill set' etc. " and " We 'come here' with a certain 'program' running, a certain 'skill set' and a set of 'flaws' that can be fixed .... or not, and certain lacks in some areas . " read 'skill set' (as I said before ) 'propensity', flavour, demeanor, abilities, personality etc. A child doesnt come with built in carpentry skills but one of the little twins I was with, at an early age was clearly more dextrous and interested in such things, he was the 'practical one, the other was the dreamer and poet. Or, as I have said before, even observe a litter of puppies, I dont mean the runt syndrome - they all have different personalities. I cant explain the mechanics of it, its been something I have been questioning and a few times posted on .... I have just observed this. A child can be 'the shy one', without something changing that he may remain that way, it could be considered a flaw by him later (or not ( he may be able to deal with or not or reverse or modify it) These are pretty obvious observations. . No, Only of I modify my terms to suit your understanding of them. Thats very black and white . "Laws" ? I am talking about tendencies; and ;personality, very flexible things But I am not, you see. You are setting your own parameters as mine and then arguing with 'me'. The proof is in the twins, bought up the same, at a very very early age, one could tell they were different types of people ... and the puppy litter. They are two of the things that led me to think this. You also might note that I never gave any 'non-materilistic' explanation, all I said is that what the genetic code can convey may be much more complex than we image. There are some very interesting twin studies around; The two guys that lived apart and developed the exact place and size skin cancer at a later age. The two that had diverse health; one excellent one bad , he had a heart problem and the doc knew about the twin thing, he contacted the brother and said get a check up. The bro laughed he was a health nut and his brother didnt work out and ate junk food, but he went for a check up - straight into hospital, emergence heart surgery and saved his life. The little twin girls adopted out as babies; one bought up in mid west USA by straight Christians, the other by rad parents in Sweden. They studied them 14 years later, both had the exact same style and movement of flicking their hair out their eyes and other mannerisms .... mannerisms mind you .... and never met . I am not running some anti materialist agenda here or trying to prove anything, just my observations - the only method of transference I can think of is the genetic code.

Imagine this coming at you, over blackened burnt ground, with no apparent fuel driving it !

Hmmm ... the quote button keeps disappearing and I have to refresh page . I am not talking about values and ethics, I am talking about my essential nature, 'style' , 'spirit', 'personality' , inherent skill set' etc. But since the conversation about this and these qualities got diverted before, I doubt it will be understood but defaulted to the previous position that every thing is learned by experience and adopted or rejected by conscious choice. I refute that. We 'come here' with a certain 'program' running, a certain 'skill set' and a set of 'flaws' that can be fixed .... or not, and certain lacks in some areas .

Bullshit ! You do that all the time !

Well, she would bring guys home from the pub when she drunk and have sex with them . Do you do that ?

I made a lucky charm once, totally different trip. Who cares about any of that stuff ^ I just want stuff ... and luck ! I decided JUpiter was good fortune and 4 being its number made the charm lucky. I was determined to win the lotto with it ! I did a ritual with it, 4 times a day over 4 days, worked out the numbers based on multiples of 4 and put in my ticket AND WON ! I won $4.40 . Waste of fuckin time ! I should have gone to work instead and made $800

For me, its purpose is to help me to get to understand my makeup better , my qualities and weaknesses , my good points and faults and flaws. Its actually helped me to relate to others better too, and understand people better in my personal interactions.

Wow man ! Is that relavent. Uncle Lewi said the same thing to me and added " I'm serious ... you better take me serious ! There are things and forces out there that will literally rip your head off your body ... and you better believe me ! " Didnt know why he was going all adamant on me like that ??? So am I am thinking , yeah yeah .... it all figurative symbolic stuff to do with totems and food supplies and mores and taboos and punishments. But then .... About a week later, a friend who lives up the end of this valley tells me " I got stopped going home by a tree across the road, near my place (the road ends at his place) , not to far, so I decided to walk the rest of the way and come back with the chainsaw and tractor, then there was another tree across the road .... and another and another, and I am thinking, what the hell happened here, no storm or anything and everywhere else seems calm. Then I get to my place - chaos ! Some type of willy-willy must have gone through it, you could see the narrow path of destruction, the fruit trees were ripped out of the ground with roots and earth attached and flung over the other side of the driveway,, the path went right through the house which was twisted 45 degrees off its foundations, one corner was stuck in the ground and the other hanging up in the air. I could see where it came down and hit, and the path, it then went up the hill and made a road through the bush and now the top flat part of that hill is clear, I got a new paddock up there! Then I guess it took off from there and flew away - nothing else was really damaged outside of that path." - a group of guys, some cables, a tractor and winches actually twisted the house back into alignment and leveled it back in place , the only damage was the stuff inside that got broken and 3 windows. Weird shit ! Another time, in totally burnt out bushland, a 'fire willy willy' came at us ... that was freaky , going along over totally burnt out fire break ! ... and it turns and heads towards us ! Freaky ! THis flaming roaring vortex getting faster and faster, making a weird sound too ! * So, although I dont think 'bad spirits' will actually grab me and pull my head off ... I am very respectful of 'nature' and any 'valley spirits (nature or people ) ! *

Then you have never found ' Tsieh She ' - 'The Eye of the Demon" , 'The Star of Piled up Corpses' , 'Medusa's Third Eye', " "the Gorgon's head, a ghastly sight, deformed and dreadful, and a sign of woe." , the 'Blinking Demon', Ra's al Ghul, Caput Larvae, Rosh ha Satan, Lilith .... all different cultures names for the same star. It causes misfortune, violence, decapitation, hanging, electrocution and mob violence, and gives a dogged and violent nature that causes death to the native or others. It is the most evil star in the heavens. Murder, sudden death, beheading, maimed, mangled, wounded or torn to pieces alive. (That's another blinking eye demon )

The emotional 'body' often works by reactions , whereas the intellectual often by response. Even just counting from 1 - 10 can change the 1st into the 2nd .

and damn those tribal people that wear western clothes sometimes ! Stealin my cultural heritage But seriously ..... in some case, yes, i feel its bad ; But in other cases ( like here ) the indigenous like the fact that we like some of their stuff enough to adopt it ...... along as you dont go down the street wearing a red headband or other 'special symbols' that have specific meaning for them. But generally they love it, especially 'new culture' stuff. If a white fellah is wearing a koori flag on his shirt, he will get the nod of approval On a similar note, I was delighted to see our new Miss World entrant ! Maminydjama (Magnolia) Maymuru Some of the shots of her are abso gorgeous ! Dude above (model hunter and her promoter) says what first attracted him to her (watching her at an ATM machine) was her height and her gracefulness and movement (even in taking out her credit card ) , her walk, everything ( she has a background in hunting and gathering ) . BUT ... then they get her ready for a photo shoot .... and my God ! .... what the fuck did they do that to her for ! (This only came out yesterday so there is no other pic I can find as yet . But they paraded her out with this lipstick on ...... URK! Bright hot red lipstick ... on those beautiful dark features .... I mean , it doesnt even work artistically ... and from a distance looked even more ridiculous ! just this glowing red mouth ..... no no no no . and also a horrible bright green unmatching startling dress to go with it . So they will present a local indigenous beauty as our entrant, in a horrible western dress, bright red lips, white diamond earrings, excessive eye makeup ...... ..... I hope they dont try a tanned light face powder !

One time when I was camping out with Aboriginal friends and Uncle Lewi goes "Tell 'em about that fight you had with the loggers." So I did . And this one guys goes "What ! You did what ! Man, thats awesome .... but what's going on there .... we thought you were a hippy and all that peace and love stuff ? " Me "Oh , I am , I am into peace and love .... like here at this place , everyone loves each other and takes care of and looks after each other, and its peaceful, nice and calm, out in nature by the river ...... but if someone comes along and tries to fuck that up ..... " Uncle Lewi finished it " ..... you'll fuck them up ."

Hmmmm .... thats a large overall statement. In some cases I would agree with that. Like the XGF I had years back that fancied herself as a bit of an astrologer, during a meeting she pulled out a book and read about all the good things in her 'sign' and clucked about how she was just like that, and then focused on some bad aspects and said she wasnt like that ... the book was wrong about that part. The others present , who knew her quite well, were incredulous - she exactly had those faults she denied. This is a pretty clear case of what is going on isnt it ? There are people like that and they will all systems like that to shore themselves up. But is this the fault of astrology or the person ? Then again, I feel modern astrology is pretty crap and false , especially the ' magazine style daily horoscope crap. But there is another 'more real' and deeper astrology , and to look in to one's nature using that tool can be very confronting and revealing .... a bit like watching a film of yourself when you didnt know you were being filmed , or hearing a recording of your own voice. In this case it certainly isnt an ego boost . But I admit that this type of astrology is rare nowadays, like most things esoteric , it has degenerated to a pop new agey thing

Ha! A lucky charm is nothing like a natal horoscope Karl. You might think it is .... but it really isn't . Nothing like that at all.

You start off nice and peaceful until you are told you are fallen, Then its a case of whether you can transcend that or not.

I know basically about horoscopes, I know mine and my version of it fairly in depth. I dont seem my behavior as 'owning this thread' . I see things on the forum more like a big party, with different conversations going on here and there, I will drift around and drop in and out. I do tend to make 'provocative' statements and pose challenging questions for some. I prefer deeper subjects than football or what is on tv. I liked the subject you bought up - that's deep . If you have detected a psychological problem in me, tell me about , then we will see if I can admit or not. Just a minute, I will go and get you a nice drink first

Yes, I have seen some good coping mechanisms that allowed some of them to shine . Others were irreparably damaged .

? try again

Yeah ! This is on my cars play list ; And I love this song ( reminds me of some relationship 'couples' I know )

It seems our understandings are further apart than I realised ! My comments related to what I quoted from you , mostly this ; " we have to choose what we ingest into our consciousness " My point is - thats fine sprouting stuff like that, but it isnt a reality, many of us are not in a position at all to be able to choose at all what we ingest into our consciousness or unconsciousness, we are victim of circumstances combined with what we make out of or turn those circumstances into. Also, what I meant was, these people were in that situation before anything happened to them, they were not 'damaged' , they might have been innocently walking home from work and got caught caught up in a protest and mass arrested and sent to 're-education camp'.... or a dozen other situations i heard about . Perhaps after their experience they were damaged and had extra disadvantage in freedom to be able to choose and filter experience that comes to them, like you suggest.

Junko could interrupt it and jazz it up a bit .....

Oh, thats just your conditioning and reaction to the descriptive word choice combined with a lack of familiarity with the subject matter . One can easily make a misperception under those conditions. If you have an aversion to something, even one that is embedded unconsciously, and you want to change that, you can reprogram yourself. Any system can be misappropriated by society / individuals to turn out biological robots OR used to help liberate the individual from its own unwanted conditionings and reactions. I mean ... we have religion ( the first in the above paragraph) then we have 'magic' - using 'religious technology' to effect change in and around the self. Or, we could say religion uses magical technology (or even call this 'technology' ; highly emotive psychological stimulation ) . You can use a gun to hunt your food, or someone or the state could turn one against you