Nungali

Ahhhh ... thats refreshing . Gives me fortitude to jump back up on the horse

and not only that .... also ; and we haven't happened yet ! I am wondering how many people know what Plato wrote about it ... or if they just heard he wrote about it , and they think the story of Atlantis is all the woo-woo that has popped up since ? <walks off mumbling with hands in pockets > well , they might, who knows, I suppose I shouldnt expect people to be able to tell the difference , but its not like its that hat=rd to figure out ... I mean alll one has to do is go and look up wiki fer gawds sakes !!! ... that wouldnt be too hard would it ... but no they will just stick with all that fantasy stuff, I mean if one knew that just got off their fucking arse I mean, for gods sake, how hard is it to look up something like wiki, admittedly it is not the best of references byt still is a fictional island mentioned within anallegory on the hubris of nations in Plato's works Timaeus and Critias, where it represents theantagonist naval power that besieges "Ancient Athens", the pseudo-historic embodiment of Plato's ideal state (see The Republic). In the story, Athens was able to repel the Atlantean attack, unlike any other nation of the (western) known world,[1] supposedly giving testament to the superiority of Plato's concept of a state.[2][3] At the end of the story, Atlantis eventually falls out of favor with the gods and famously submerges into the Atlantic Ocean. Despite its minor importance in Plato's work, the Atlantis story has had a considerable impact on literature. The allegorical aspect of Atlantis was taken up in utopian works of several Renaissancewriters, such as Bacon's New Atlantis and More's Utopia.[4] On the other hand, 19th-century amateur scholars misinterpreted Plato's account as historical tradition, most notably in Donnelly'sAtlantis: The Antediluvian World. Plato's vague indications of the time of the events—more than 9,000 years before his day[5]—and the alleged location of Atlantis—"beyond the Pillars of Hercules"—has led to much pseudoscientific speculation.[6] As a consequence, Atlantis has become a byword for any and all supposed advanced prehistoric lost civilizations and continues to inspire contemporary fiction, from comic books to films. mumble mumble grumble ,,, i mean putting in context with the whole of what Tiomeaus was about might kick their wrse too https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timaeus_(dialogue) and this https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Critias_(dialogue) ... dang blast it !

So ..... you dont think Plato was writing about the dangers of what he saw was happening in Athens , but recording a real event ?

Are you giving The Matrix movies some type of 'reality validity' ?

Just trying to get the point across .... Plato used the Atlantis story as a model. And posting a pic of a model of the model is interesting to look at , but .... ... doesnt make it any more real. But I think the story has real relevance .... especially to us today (meaning 'western civilisation' ) , parts of it are, supposedly, even going to sink beneath the waves.... literally ! Now ... how did the 'Atlanteans' get into that mess in the first place .... didnt they abuse their power and technology ?

Ahhh the cosmic weighing scales ! ... watch out for that crocolepapotamus on the right !

Its an island ... they wont be walking across Europe ... unless ... @ 0.30

yeah .... but I just wanted him to use a 'dirty word'

I see .... and you live in Germany ... actually, I happen to live in an Oasis that is little affected by climate change, its quiet pleasant here (often has a lower temperature mid summer than Tasmania ) ... and being a big island, all the way down here, we dont have vast populations walking in .... and the ones that do get here ... we only have a few neo-nazis to harass them , oh yeah, and no NATO / Russia conflict on the doorstep 'Pretty much fucked' eh ? So the point of posting an old Atlantis map was .......... ?

It is a very safe thing to say as I wont be eating it ... not because of any 'reality' of Atlantis .... unless it is backed up with some reasonable reseach. And that isnt a hollow caw .... its from years of research on both sides of the issue. Not quite ..... An Edgar Cayce, Atlantis, 'YouTube' video as 'evidence' ..... oh dear .... oh my ..... Then one needs to look at the 'researchers', their work, their qualifications and the latest findings. Thats called investigating something. Like when Thelearner mentioned the cocaine mummies ... I had read up on this when it cane out. and I was very interested. Then I read more recent papers on its debunking ... that seemed okay at first, but I still had doubts both ways. The when I read Thelearners post, I wondered what the latest was on it ... so I looked up some stuff very briefly ... and got this : http://www.faculty.ucr.edu/~legneref/ethnic/mummy.htm " It is determined that the original findings are supported by substantial evidence despite the initial criticisms " Note in this link, its source site, references and literature cited and ' considerations' ( which point out a a cultural bias ... one could say that any postulated 'Atlantis' also supports this same cultural bias ) . So I accepted Thelearners comment on it ... not just accepted or denied it due to some personal whim or preference. Are you being serious ... I have to leave it undecided because we cant personally go there with a team of experienced archeologists with adequate equipment , dive gear, boats etc. yet, you had already decided yourself without going there from the evidence in an Edgar cayce ufo/tv youtube .... but when other evidence is presented ... we both need to go there with a team ourselves ? ! Usually we tend to leave that thing up to others trained in those fields , then we can read their papers, follow along with their postulations and evidence and use our brain power ! I mean ... one has to be on the ball a bit ! At first it sounds convincing when someone says ... "It bears evidence of human tooling " until someone else says " Dude ! People have been diving there for yonks and carving bits off ! " And . at first, some may be impressed with the sneakily slipped in extra "and placed there by human hands " .... come on ... where is the evidence for that. After a while , on can detect the BS by the way an article is written. Seriously ? ! Come on now ! Maybe he saw an Atlantis youtube in his trance and thought that was reality ? You know, when predictions are obviously seen to not come true and people try to fudge on them ... it just makes it look worse. Not always ... just one example off the top of my head ' they decided to believe the Easter Island stories about how those statues got there ... they old stories said that they 'walked there'. Yes .... inanimate stone statues walked across the island from the quarry to the place they are in now. And some scientists went 'Okay then ... lets believe that and see if we can figure out what happened from the evidence available and .... and the refs .... also the site I mentioned above has wealth of information ( with links and refs ) on this and similar subjects. I have spent over 30 years studying such things, including Egyptology ..... I had to let go of a lot of what I used to believe in and what I wanted to believe in . It isnt that I started out as some type of debunker or materialist ... I used to believe all that alternative stuff about the Great Pyramid, for example, the more I researched it, from proper sources , the more I found out I had been swindled ! But I am certainly not saying we know everything .... look at Gobekli Tepe , that was a surprise . Atlantis was a story told by Plato to make a point about what he observed occurring in his time and he used the story as an analogy .... and like all stories, it may have bounced off some remembered events (like Santorini ) ... or maybe the similarity was seen afterwards . Another possibility I have seen discussed, re 'the Pillars of Hercules' , where they actually were ... and what the Greek word that is translated as 'beyond' ( these pillars ) means in other contexts ... inside or outside of the Mediterranean Sea . Such conversations can be quiet long ..... which is why I am not rehashing all that stuff here .

The original vision merkaba was based on was a tad spaced out itself ; " 16 The appearance of the wheels and their work was like unto the colour of a beryl: and they four had one likeness: and their appearance and their work was as it were a wheel in the middle of a wheel. 17 When they went, they went upon their four sides: and they turned not when they went. 18 As for their rings, they were so high that they were dreadful; and their rings were full of eyes round about them four. 19 And when the living creatures went, the wheels went by them: and when the living creatures were lifted up from the earth, the wheels were lifted up. 20 Whithersoever the spirit was to go, they went, thither was their spirit to go; and the wheels were lifted up over against them: for the spirit of the living creature was in the wheels. 21 When those went, these went; and when those stood, these stood; and when those were lifted up from the earth, the wheels were lifted up over against them: for the spirit of the living creature was in the wheels. 22 And the likeness of the firmament upon the heads of the living creature was as the colour of the terrible crystal, stretched forth over their heads above. 23 And under the firmament were their wings straight, the one toward the other: every one had two, which covered on this side, and every one had two, which covered on that side, their bodies. 24 And when they went, I heard the noise of their wings, like the noise of great waters, as the voice of the Almighty, the voice of speech, as the noise of an host: when they stood, they let down their wings. 25 And there was a voice from the firmament that was over their heads, when they stood, and had let down their wings. 26 And above the firmament that was over their heads was the likeness of a throne, as the appearance of a sapphire stone: and upon the likeness of the throne was the likeness as the appearance of a man above upon it. 27 And I saw as the colour of amber, as the appearance of fire round about within it, from the appearance of his loins even upward, and from the appearance of his loins even downward, I saw as it were the appearance of fire, and it had brightness round about. 28 As the appearance of the bow that is in the cloud in the day of rain, so was the appearance of the brightness round about. This was the appearance of the likeness of the glory of the Lord. And when I saw it, I fell upon my face, and I heard a voice of one that spake. ( See, just when one gets really high .... ' I fell upon my face ' . It happens )

I warned ya .... now you are seeing ... opposites !

It must have been tough !

One day ... I'll get him !

So .... in early ancient Egypt lapis went from Afghanistan , through to Egypt and the west coast of Africa. It didnt need the same people from Afghanistan to contact the west African coast, nor was there a need to postulate some great empire or civilisation between Afghanistan and Egypt for it to get there. besides , Michael , above, pointed out how sometimes scientists can be dodgy too .... maybe some Egyptologist had an accident when doing up a line But, the research NOW does seem to indicate that original protests were incorrect . So we may have to extend this map to the left . Thanks for answering my question, but I dont see how this backs up the reality of Atlantis .

Ummm ... the Tree of Life is a schemata ... and what is below is typical of maps of the time . Surely you dont think, using one of those old maps , you would be able to sail through where Australia is now ? here are some more maps of Atlantis .... I dont think they prove much at all https://www.google.com.au/search?q=maps+of+atlantis&espv=2&biw=1366&bih=667&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwimoPbqnLzJAhUBP5QKHTUwBSAQ_AUIBigB Ummmm ... Upper Egypt is the part of the river that is up steam , and the other division was Lower Egypt and they were not names used by the Egyptians at all anyway . Even I live at a place called ' Upper ..... " on the map, as it is upstream from ' ....' Look, people back then read Plato and heard about Atlantis ... its not abnormal to include it on some old maps .

A 'channeled source ' ? Okay then . But for me that constitutes no proof whatsoever .

Granted! When someone finds Atlantis , with similar evidence as Troy, I will gladly eat me hat ... and yours ... and Marbleheads wig. Sometimes they did , I am more worried about 'scientism' though. Nah, slacked off on the video (low credit , but now recharged) .... actually, now my charged up rant power is running low ... stay tune for after I charge up my rant battery . No I didnt bother to watch it ... It was a ufo/tv site and about Edgar Cayce , come on man ! I have better things to spend my time and money on and I have already thrashed these subjects to death, for years and studied both sides and come to my conclusion ... BUT , since you made 'a point' ... I will go back now and watch 10 mins of it ( but it is expensive for me ... text sites are better, and they often have references and stuff that are easier to follow ) and then ..... ... I'm back ... Ah man , those points are adreesed in the wiki article on Bimini , and that has follow up refrences . There goes my time and money ! anyway ; 1, no teirs , multiple levels of blocks - there say there are ( see * below ) 2, blocks sit on beds of sand or base rock - no, more blocks or foundations of rubble (they make a point about shifting sand changing things ,,, and then a comment about a feature being parallell to the shore line , but this is the present shore line, considering shifting sands and immense time of the postulated building ... the shore line would have been where it is today??? . Ya cant have it both ways ! ) * 3. no props or support stones - they believe they found some 'all clearly cut and placed by human hands ' (evidence of that ? I dodnt see any evidence of things being placed by human hands ) and some 'appeared' to be similar to other rocks elsewhere .. well, that happens . * 4. no tool marks on any stone or human artifacts , - they showed some ( but they dont look like tool marks to me at all, what was shown in that vid ) ... then stone anchors , one was similar to Pheonician anchor and dated to 30 bc .... ??? * 5. all the blocks dip toward deep water -(they claim all natural stones deep towards deep water ? do they ? ) - they found evidence that a large proportion did not . * ... then I watched a tiny bit more ... about how Atlantis will rise again ... from some 'chaneller ' in .... well, in a year that has long passed us by. No, Edgar , Atlantis did not rise then .... I wont be eating no hats on that one ! * Wiki ; " As noted below, these observations are disputed by other investigators. For example, some investigators state that where sand had washed away between the seams, another course of blocks can be seen along with small blocks underlying these blocks. However, detailed evidence that clearly documents the alleged presence of a continuous second layer (course) of stones beneath the stones forming the currently exposed "pavement" has not yet been published in a reputable, scientific venue with the detail that is needed for critical evaluation. Pictures posted on various Web pages of stones alleged to be artificial "wedge stones" and "prop stones" fail as convincing evidence for a second course of stones because they are typically smaller in size, do not form a continuous course, and too infrequently lie directly beneath the blocks that form the surface of the Bimini Road. This is not what would be expected of an actual underlying course of man-made masonry. David Zink[7] states: Most of the blocks were now clearly resting on either the underlying bedrock or on smaller stones on the sea floor. — David Zink This led him to conclude: ...this fact had an important archaeological consequence: it meant that the idea (held by some Atlantologists) that the blocks now visible were only the top of a more complex structure was likely incorrect. In addition, early studies of the Bimini Road, i.e. Gifford and Ball[5] and David Zink,[7] report taking numerous samples and cores for examination. It is also safe to presume that a certain number of the innumerable visitors to the Bimini Road have chipped off pieces of it. Scientific sampling and souvenir hunting would have left behind modern "tool marks" on the various blocks composing the Bimini Road for later investigators to find. " I would suggest, with all due respect to people's 'beliefs' , that reading the rest of that Wiki site and following up the refs may be a better source of info than an Edgar Cayce / ufo/tv internet video clip ? THey seem to be fudging like all the other 'Atlantean type Youtubes' do . https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bimini_Road also http://www.world-mysteries.com/mpl_10_3.htm http://www.csicop.org/si/show/geologists_adventures_with_bimini_beachrock/ I dont go for this chanlled, new age , rehash of old dodgey post victorian 'seership. I thought that was obvious. I know a great site with many academics and professionals on it if you want to investigate this further , they are great for finding the latest up to date info on things (and supplying a bit of 'reason' as well ) . I am sure questions about Bimini there will bring forth a lot of info . They also have a lot of conversations running about Atlantis as well . And some of them really know their stuff ! http://www.unexplained-mysteries.com/forum/ Now ... on with more Atlantis fun !

What's up pony boy ! Still stuck in the obvious, or can you follow the idea a bit more now ?

Thats what I meant ... exactly . 'what its for' can be for the usage of the one answering the question. If one isnt a 'user' then a thing can have a purpose , without that purpose being a 'usage' . I did not get the impression from Jadespear's post (now, after reading the longer one) that he 'uses' the world ... he is in it ... and one may as well enjoy it ... but one doesnt have to 'use it for one's enjoyment' . I think the attitude of the world having a 'use for ' us , is a problem, it is different IMO to live in and as part of the world . One can even relate to a person and enjoy that, without a concept of them providing a use for us. Yet , some only relate to people they can use . ... nothing personal Thelearner .... just bouncing off you ... I use people too sometimes ... even for my own entertainment

.... oh, by the way ... I wouldn't stare at that ^ for tooo long .

'The creative Cross' of the 'Dawning Universe' ; That 'earth extension' just aint going to fit neatly into that stable triangle of the other three forces. Then 3 make 'a new one ' ... always a 'solidification' of the triad 'above' , intimately connected (by 'birth' ) but 'apart' . To make the new, denser 'cross of the elements' the shape has to change , the process of the 'spark jumping the gap' , or the transmutation of the 3 into 4 , or the forming of the new crystal ... well, that's what 'merkaba' is all about