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Everything posted by Nungali
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Oh boy are you gonna luv this Atlantis-Great Meteor Seamount Chain and the Atlantis-Plato-Cruiser-Great Meteor Seamount Group, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seewarte_Seamounts as you first said about this link you put up " Not that I think it is any evidence ... but it is interesting ." The high point of the mount tested to have formed underwater at between 7Ma and 22Ma https://books.google.com.au/books?id=3vHsCAAAQBAJ&pg=PA116&lpg=PA116&dq=Who+named+the+Atlantis-Great+Meteor+Seamount+Chain+and+the+Atlantis-Plato-Cruiser-Great+Meteor+Seamount+Group+?&source=bl&ots=gPzUc2L94m&sig=Xm54FYCL4-McDdd9791lHZCvGSE&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjG1OKWosnJAhWlHaYKHT2DD5YQ6AEIGzAA#v=onepage&q=Who%20named%20the%20Atlantis-Great%20Meteor%20Seamount%20Chain%20and%20the%20Atlantis-Plato-Cruiser-Great%20Meteor%20Seamount%20Group%20%3F&f=false I have yet to find any mention anywhere of it ever surfacing although it is now deeper than when it was formed , and that type of sinking takes a long time ... the African plate has to pass beyond the hot spot that formed it Look at this https://www.google.com.au/maps/@29.8983544,-28.5697378,85002m/data=!3m1!1e3 now this
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Before I go further though here are some more points about that link and what was said in the post " Mountain [city] in the same place. [This can be seen in video] " IN the video the 'city' is not in or near the sea mount. That is acknowledged (and brushed over as 'some people say ' that this is a city ) in the video, so the poster was not quoting the video correctly , and besides , that city has been debunked http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2096928/Google-Earth-removes-gridlike-pattern-sparked-lost-city-Atlantis-rumours-map.html now the guy on the video skirted around that and did say he was talking about the mount ... but for some reason he also showed the 'city' ? ? ? Regardless , the poster's point about a city , being one oif the stacking up 'coincidences is eliminated. The other big issue is the google earth image of the seamount does not show the features on the map ... there is some fast footwork there . The Atlantis physical features as described by Plato are compared with the Kircher map and then the Kircher map is xompoared to the google image of the sea mount . The reason the map is drawn like it is is because it is trying to represent Plato's Atlantis (unless proof can be shown of a map that predates Plato's writing ,like this Egyptian one, if it does predate Plato's writing ) . . So there is an obvious similarity. But google image map does not have the features on the map. At this stage however , it does seem to have a similar general outline. So " Coincidence you say? The Location is in the same place, just west of the Pillars of Hercules and in the ocean named after it (okay 1) 5 matching angles and lengths, all in the same place (vaguely yes , but also quiet different , it does look like a generally matching 5 sided shape ... so, okay, 2. ) Arrowhead "nick" in the same place ( he hasnt defined which place and I cant see an 'arrow head nick' , I can see a sort of double curved bay with a peninsular coming out of it and then it goes down to the 'bottom' point , so, still 2 ) Mountain [city] in the same place. [This can be seen in video] ( no way 2 ) 3 river channels in the same place ( I cant see any river chanells on the sea mount, only on the map so 2 ) 2 smaller islands ( okay, as far a stretch as the match seems 3 ) 13 coincidences? ( 3 coincidences ) 3 rivers cannot be seen, and 2 islands are in the wrong spot, though still on the correct side. 13 coincidences out of 18 do not make a coincidence. 13 coincidences equal a fairly accurate representation. " ( he's fudged it ) And this is still analysing the content and logic of the claim ... no 'science' as yet ... and still curious how the road went all the way from Bimini to this location ? . There is more to come
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What 'subsidiary matters' ? No I was bitching that I didnt have to watch that vid as I suspected ! The relevant info, I think is in the posts on that 'top secret' forum where the points of reference similarities are listed ..... yes ? I haven't addressed those yet ( the similarity of undersea feature to the map ) , I said I will be back . This is what I am , not just considering , but finding out the details of that ( which is why I was taking time out before I go on ). Besides I find such a consideration, as you put it, pretty vague. Eg, how much lower ? When did it start sinking, when did it finish, etc . For a start, do you understand how such features, regardless of how they look now, were formed, and the time scale and dates of them ? I am partially informed of that, but I am cross checking to look for latest info . Why mention the ice age at all, unless that is going to be part of your dating to coincide with that piece of land being above the surface ... things like that .... .... sorry, I am an analist .... I mean analyst Okay , I missed something there . can I please have the reference for this ,as it sounds like you are referring to something I should have seen ? If not and this is a new one .... but I will wait, maybe I did miss it or its in another video or text ? Hang on .... let's do some background research first ? If it can be understood then the money is saved, if it cant then you have extra info for getting someone to finance your expedition . If I had not found what you presented interesting ( those comparison points from feature to map ) I would not be doing this . PS. I just found out that this feature is one of the most surveyed and explored of many of them " is one of the most completely investigated seamounts in the world " https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Meteor_Seamount ... some companies offer dive tours there http://www.divediscover.whoi.edu/hottopics/seamounts.html maybe Arnie is too full on ? ... I shall return
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Oh dear the first few minutes was that guy on the vid reaing a Wiki article about Kicher . Then ha says "This is the guy you want to go to to know something about Egypt" . ( 1.40 ) . Ummmm .... no, There has been a wealth of information about Egypt since then , he is not the person to go to find out something about Egypt . unless you live in mid 1600s . I am assuming I dont have to elaborate on why ? Then he says if you want to know about something go to the jesuits and the catholic church "This guy knew what was going on" ??? He says that Kirches map was "A map of Atlantis according to the Ancient Egyptian maps ." What anceint Egyptian maps ? Without referencing them, this is just s statement . I would love to see these ancient Egyptian maps of Atlantis , if you can help me out here . All I could find was these https://www.google.com.au/search?q=ancient+Egyptian+maps+of+atlantis&espv=2&biw=1366&bih=667&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiM9b_nysjJAhVoJaYKHbW4BTEQ_AUIBigB#imgrc=_ or the "maps taken from Egypt by the Romasn at 30 bc" . Next follows some time explaining how the map is upside down .... errrm ... obvious ! Then there is the scale . Dude says he believes it isnt to scale . he says thats point 1 (I would call it fudge 3 ,,, but anyway, to continue .. @ 7.09 he shows fracture patterns on the sea floor and says it looks like a city that used to be there ??? Even though it isnt on the 'island' of Atlantis' . Then follows several minutes of rehashing what he already said . Actually, the whole vid can be summed up from 9.00 to 9.10 ! Michael ! You could have just referred me to the map, to the location on google earth and said, "How do I explain that feature " ".
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ooops ... you mean the one under it . If I watch all that video ( I watched a bit and read the posts ) will you also read posts from a site that I can link to ?
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Ah ... the old Donelly caper https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ignatius_L._Donnelly As far as Thoth being an Atlantean ... what can I say ... we have entered the realm of 'belief' . I tried ; blank screen with 'This video does not exist' pasted across it. However , can we just discuss that undersea formation anyway ? and the viability of building a road from Bimini to that location ( since that is where the road is supposed to go to - or has that changed now ? )
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Poison the rats or what can anyone suggest.
Nungali replied to AussieTrees's topic in The Rabbit Hole
you do realise that sound will attract other snakes -
I remember some conspiracy dude going on about Rhiannon too .
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Surely you can answer my two questions without having to stall to find your books ? 1. What is your view on what Atlantis was ( or is ) ? ... I mean , just your own view , you shouldn't need books for that ... unless you are reforming your view ? 2. Are you claiming the map you posted is representative of some land that was in that location ? You might need a wide range of geological areas and oceanic research to cover all the locations ( I hope you are not wasting good money on bad books , I have read a few papers on geology and oceanography purporting to prove a lost continent ... they show some evidence of them .... millions of years ago . Then their proponents go on a tangent of trying to argue for long lost civilisations that were entirely obliterated so no trace was left ... and so on . )
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Ohhhh , I see <goes off satisfied now that everything is explained .
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I lived 'in the matrix' for 9 months . 10 hrs a day, 5 days a week ... mostly at Fox Studios Sydney and on locations. It makes me smile when people give that movie some reality value. Its become a new internut paradigm. Whether that is what is happening in this poll or not is hard to tell, as ' the Matrix' is undefined here . But yes, 'reality' can be confusing .... especially when you cant see the wires
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Come on man .... you the messenger boy ! Self appointed is it ?
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Ah its settled ... your vid wasnt a UFO at all It was a UFM
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I won't go off on a tangent about Cayce ... I dont see him or his methods as a valid source for investigating any reality about Atlantis ... already there is a big issue about his prophecy about Atlantis. I would rather concentrate on real evidence for or against Atlantis and not someone's dream visions. Many people believe he was exposed as a fake. I dont see how such a psychic can be counted as a reasonable reference. I am sure we will disagree on this point, however, I will offer the following; https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edgar_Cayce#Controversy_and_criticism The other side doesnt seem to offer much ; https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edgar_Cayce#Reputation_for_psychic_abilities Yes, he may have done some healing and discovered some methods but his critics have some solid evidence against him . The way I look at this is similar to Steiner , I follow some of his agricultural stuff, and some of his educational theories are good .... but he is also an Atlantis believer , and because I have realised that is a crock of crap, I have no need to swallow the whole concoction of 'Steinerism' . These 'post Victorian' trance occultists 'saw' many similar things ... you know, we can track down the start of this phenomena and who started it ... the same way as we can track the 'Flying Saucer' phenomena . A good occultists IMO should not swallow hook line and sinker ... but investigate and update with the latests findings and research. Unless one is into retro occultism as a hobby or fashion ... I am into it as a curiosity ... but not as a part of my system. Not quite my opinions about Edgar Casey , A.R.E. , UFO/TV and other things were not formed before my experience of them, but after seeing what they put out .... also 'History' Chanel , Ancient Aliens ... etc . I did ' depreciate it a prior' because of my experience with those sources , but still, I went back, and looked and 'did my homework' as you said, didnt I ... and still I found the same old stuff, the fudging of the evidence, the wrong info, etc . This keeps happening ... after a while one gets tired of these badly researched but somehow popular for the masses sources. As I said, I prefer text, with notes and references to check up on. Funny ! But in this conversation, I represent the 'scientist' and the 'evidence based approach using the latest technology and learning' .... and the bishop donging the ' unbiased observer' on the head would be ..... ? Okay, best of luck next time you fly on a plane, drive a car, use your computer, turn on a power point .... Of course, that is the way science works ... as new research reveals new info the map is redrawn . What, we are supposed to stay frozen in some old scientific era ? That's a silly way to look at it and that is not at all how it works .... and I suspect you realise this . One thing, just one thing I will say here. I am not, nor is 'science' looking at some latests 'doctrine' or latest finding about the Bimini 'road' to decide whether Atlantis was out there in the Atlantic (and boy, would that have been some long road ! ) ... there are a whole range of other sciences to prove or disprove a continent or large island there ... like geology, the history laid down on the ocean floor, plate tectonics , etc etc . Another example is, I am interested in the PIE homelands as described in the Avesta ... I can come to no real conclusion on it as there is scant archaeological evidence for it . I have a romantic attachment to the idea, but 'scripture ' ( Avestas) isnt a real record. That evidence may arise in the future and then my romantic notions may have some validity. What is wrong with the development of ideas in this way ? Do you really think I am adopting the 'decal image of the latest doctrine' due to some prejudices I have ? Thats your perogative .... I think one would have to be clear on what is causing and motivating one's 'intuition' to give that, alone, precedence outside of 'empirical findings' . No, not generally, its just that early in my investigations into the occult and similar realms I hit upon the idea of 'scientific illuminism' using the principles of science to investigate occultism, instead of just believing what appeals to one, for whatever reason that may be ... its about getting a clear view, relatively removed from ones hopes and beliefs ... like that guy in your cartoon A new discovery like that, will of course lead to an expanded view on our history ... that is a very safe 'prophetic' bet .... I mean , that's already happened ! prophesy ... you're funny Great ! First up, can you answer my question above about the map of Atlantis you posted ; Are you claiming it represents some physical land in that location ? Just to be clear I will state my position on Atlantis ... its pretty much what the wiki article says, and what empirical findings show; " Atlantis is a fictional island mentioned within an allegory on the hubris of nations in Plato's works Timaeus and Critias, where it represents the antagonist naval power that besieges "Ancient Athens", the pseudo-historic embodiment of Plato's ideal state (see The Republic). In the story, Athens was able to repel the Atlantean attack, unlike any other nation of the (western) known world, supposedly giving testament to the superiority of Plato's concept of a state. " What is you view on what Atlantis was ( or is ) ?
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You 'live in' Miss Switzerland ? .... ummmm .... well, good luck to you, I suppose . Dont you occasionally have to go to work or visit the relatives or something ? Oh , I live next door in 'Austria' .... One can get that from reading Plato .... oh, excuse me , for a moment there I thought people might actually go to the real source material ... silly me ! Our 'Russian Host' by the way was just trying to suck us into playing some on line find the treasure chest game and using Atlantis as a con .... a lot of people use Atlantis as a con General and vague comment. I want to know what the relevance of the map is to you and your theory about Atlantis. Are you suggesting that the map shows the size and location of Atlantis in reality ....ie. that it was a real country and continent, or big island and it 'sunk beneath the waves' in that location. I just want to get this clear before I go on with this bit. ( I mean just putting a pic up and then a map, without detailing how it supports your argument, or what your argument is, seems a bit .... 'open' )
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Ahhhh ... thats refreshing . Gives me fortitude to jump back up on the horse
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and not only that .... also ; and we haven't happened yet ! I am wondering how many people know what Plato wrote about it ... or if they just heard he wrote about it , and they think the story of Atlantis is all the woo-woo that has popped up since ? <walks off mumbling with hands in pockets > well , they might, who knows, I suppose I shouldnt expect people to be able to tell the difference , but its not like its that hat=rd to figure out ... I mean alll one has to do is go and look up wiki fer gawds sakes !!! ... that wouldnt be too hard would it ... but no they will just stick with all that fantasy stuff, I mean if one knew that just got off their fucking arse I mean, for gods sake, how hard is it to look up something like wiki, admittedly it is not the best of references byt still is a fictional island mentioned within anallegory on the hubris of nations in Plato's works Timaeus and Critias, where it represents theantagonist naval power that besieges "Ancient Athens", the pseudo-historic embodiment of Plato's ideal state (see The Republic). In the story, Athens was able to repel the Atlantean attack, unlike any other nation of the (western) known world,[1] supposedly giving testament to the superiority of Plato's concept of a state.[2][3] At the end of the story, Atlantis eventually falls out of favor with the gods and famously submerges into the Atlantic Ocean. Despite its minor importance in Plato's work, the Atlantis story has had a considerable impact on literature. The allegorical aspect of Atlantis was taken up in utopian works of several Renaissancewriters, such as Bacon's New Atlantis and More's Utopia.[4] On the other hand, 19th-century amateur scholars misinterpreted Plato's account as historical tradition, most notably in Donnelly'sAtlantis: The Antediluvian World. Plato's vague indications of the time of the events—more than 9,000 years before his day[5]—and the alleged location of Atlantis—"beyond the Pillars of Hercules"—has led to much pseudoscientific speculation.[6] As a consequence, Atlantis has become a byword for any and all supposed advanced prehistoric lost civilizations and continues to inspire contemporary fiction, from comic books to films. mumble mumble grumble ,,, i mean putting in context with the whole of what Tiomeaus was about might kick their wrse too https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timaeus_(dialogue) and this https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Critias_(dialogue) ... dang blast it !
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So ..... you dont think Plato was writing about the dangers of what he saw was happening in Athens , but recording a real event ?
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Are you giving The Matrix movies some type of 'reality validity' ?
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Just trying to get the point across .... Plato used the Atlantis story as a model. And posting a pic of a model of the model is interesting to look at , but .... ... doesnt make it any more real. But I think the story has real relevance .... especially to us today (meaning 'western civilisation' ) , parts of it are, supposedly, even going to sink beneath the waves.... literally ! Now ... how did the 'Atlanteans' get into that mess in the first place .... didnt they abuse their power and technology ?
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Ahhh the cosmic weighing scales ! ... watch out for that crocolepapotamus on the right !
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Its an island ... they wont be walking across Europe ... unless ... @ 0.30
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Connecting the opposites... What could that mean?
Nungali replied to centertime's topic in General Discussion
yeah .... but I just wanted him to use a 'dirty word'