Nungali

I didn’t address the ‘reason’ question in the OP , in regard to why accrue good karma, heaven and hell etc. I feel as I said above, some actions should not need to be questioned but responded to spontaneously and the idea of ‘not showing compassion’ (and indeed, as I have seen) using ‘their bad karma’ as an excuse not to act, assist or help … to me is a cop out, but the other issue of wanting to help to get good karma or go to heaven also seems to lack integrity. I remember a Sufi (?) prayer / saying that went something like; If I do not do good deeds to gain entrance to heaven let me be cast into hell and if I do good deeds solely to enable me to enter heaven let me cast into hell as well. As I said above … some don’t need a reason … they ‘do what needs to be done’. Of course one cannot do everything. So how to deal with that? I like the idea of connection; one’s degree of connection depends on one’s degree of responsibility. As Bill Nidje says at the end of ‘Kaladu Man’ ; Now you have heard the story … you are responsible … you have to do something about it.

Doesn't the word come from Greek and relate to 'ripe' or 'at its right time' and a (Greek ideal ?) that a mature woman trying to look young and a young girl trying to look old are NOT beautiful ? ... I read that somewhere ... prob wiki

You would make a GREAT heckler to my act

For me ... Dharma/Karma It is one thing ... but to look at both sides; the first seems to me to relate to my concept of the True Will ; 'unrelated' events and occurrences that later fit together and indicate a 'greater' plan beyond my conscious choices. Eg. you give me an obscure book for no reason (maybe you were about to throw it out), I am not interested in it until one day it plays a crucial part in my life, my life all fitting together and coming to fruition. The other side seems cause and effect; anger = .... pollute the environment and you get .... Its a bit like a law of physics.

Sweetie .... I wouldn't even need to ask you that question. I would not be having that type of conversation with you and I don't think you subscribe to modern pop new age western 'understandings' of karma. When I have more time (about to head off to the old growth rainforest and cascade pools ) I will read the posts as maybe I will be pleasantly surprised (as I have already noticed their is deeper understanding on this site with some) compared with my recent conversations on karma (not here). IMO Marblehead has the 'right ' answer here .... I assume one just 'automatically reacts' and does what needs to be done . If one decides too busy or even 'fuck her' or sees it as a modern day 'evolution of the fittest' at least one could be honest about that and not justify it as her karma (and implying that ones own is so great as a rich white westerner that they must have had a past series of good and spiritual incarnations ... and not the fact that it is more based on a current political-social situation. "I am not the oppressor! I am just a really good spiritual guy!" (Part of my 'stand-up comedy' routine that puts the Aboriginals in stiches laughing ).

YES! I prefer the way tardtional Japanese talk of Karma (but maybe that's because I haven't talked to you about it ... I LIKE it so far! Westerners concept seems to relate to an inbred 'Old testament' reward and punishment relating to the 'tribal god' ... thingo

John Dillon seems to agree, “ The distinction commonly made between magic and theurgy is in fact, in my view, basically an unreal one. The real distinction is between magic/theurgy—and its remote descendant, the modern scientific world-view and religion.” As far as a ‘cloudy distinction’ goes I remember (but cant place at the moment) someone associated with Iamblichus (?) who ‘invoked a daemon but got a God instead’ ? Do you mean 'as a body' (which somewhat disagrees with me) or 'through a body' (which agrees with me more)? I get the macro micro but IMV the 'soul' is one micro that inhabits (or tries to co-habit) the another micro (the body) {In local shamanic understanding the 'spirit' is a 'projection' of the place , site and locality and the body is a projecyion from the parents / ancestors. What I meant is that the nature of the debate makes it seemed muddled back then ... there was no agreement ... but I guess there still isn't ... I am still looking for the ;united field theory of daimonology' Agreed. We must understand on what we build upon. But I also find many 'occultists' are not up to date within that context as well ... again advocating Swedenborg/Jung/VanDusen/Harpur. As far as the 'pure' philosophy goes back then and the 'distinction'- to me it seems, at times, confused. I like to apply (to a definition of what a daemon might be) Iamblichus’ “ … two dissimilar terms must be linked by an intermediary having something in common with each of them.” i.e. IMV between a ‘God’ and a human. And considering the ‘got a daemon and not a god’ what about (Proclus’ commentary on First Alcibiades) “before the God appears certain terrestrial daemons present themselves” (but that might have been written as a ‘result’ of this first ‘experiment’ or ‘demonstration’)? Iamblichus ( I Ch. XX ) does make a distinction between God and Daemon in ‘ the ministrant nature of daemons’ who ‘put into operation that which the Gods perceive, whish and command.” But that seems self-referential … how do we know that is the case? We either have daemons of an ‘adverse’ order … or (as it often seems) the Gods have an adverse plan for us. (This is why I relate the ‘work’ or ‘communication’ of the daemons as some sort of ‘intelligent design / consciousness in the evolutionary process … but that would fulfil the definition of ‘god’ anyway?) But Proculus says they can be different forms of the same God, or appearances of the Gods who are “ formless and unfigured” . Which seems not too unlike Jung’s archetypes? This seems to suggest that they can only be known through the archetypal images they assume. Also Iamblichus notes that each daemonic nature is attributed to its own place on earth (obviously a ‘terrestrial daemon’) ; sacred groves or general regions . This is certainly the case with the Australian Aboriginal and directly relates to their whole existence and in a manner of speaking each one person (in traditional culture here) is a projection of the ‘daemon of a specific spot’ , and specifically a member of that ‘daemonic hierarchy’ (in moiety and totem) of that place. Here is a distinction that Harpur makes in ‘Daimonic Reality’ , “ Deceit is one of the daimonic attributes it is hardest for us to accept – we hear little or nothing of it in relation to guardian angels , for example …” Although Iamblichus makes clear distinctions in ‘phasmata’ ; archangels – ‘terrible and mild’ and ‘full of supernatural light’ daemons are ‘ various’ and ‘dreadful’ and can appear in multiple and variety of forms . (Iamblichus III. Ch III – IV ) Obviously having little knowledge of all the Platonists view on this my view on them is incomplete but at this stage I am much more preferring the distinctions of Swedenborg as refined by Dr Wilson VanDusen. The distinction there is not some ‘obscure will of the Gods’ which might be to reward or punish us (again the self-referential ‘Will of the Gods’ being communicated by a daemon who might be ‘good or bad’ … we will just have to take their word for it) but, in examination of how their action effects the individual and their culture and society. IMO THAT is the line of distinction between a ‘spirit of bad order’ / an averse or destructive ‘daemon’/ and a good or positive one. The important point IMO is that the ‘low’ can be ‘lifted up’ as shown by the process in shamanism where the daemon may be aggressive at first and later ‘trained’ or compliant and helpful and also in the results achieved in cases of psychosis/possession by Dr VanDusen. Of course this is relevant to time place culture etc. but that is one of my requirements … otherwise it is all intellectual and armchair.

and a small example of a few others out side of my 2 areas ; Adnoartina, the lizard guard of Uluru Bamapana, Murngin trickster spirit who creates discord Barraiya, creator of the first vagina Bobbi-Bobbi, benevolent Binbinga snake deity Galeru, rainbow snake in Arnhem Land mythology who swallowed the Djanggawul Djunkgao, group of sisters associated with floods and ocean currents Malingee, malignant nocturnal spirit Mamaragan, lightning deity Mimi, fairy-like beings of Arnhem Land Mokoi, evil Murgnin spirit who kidnapped and ate children Papinijuwari, a type of one-eyed giant which feeds on the bodies of the dead and the blood of the sick Bunyip, mythical creature said to lurk in swamps, billabongs, creeks, riverbeds, and waterholes Kondole, man who became the first whale Nargun, fierce half-human, half-stone female creature of Gunai legend Pundjel, creator deity involved in the initiation of boys Thinan-malkia, evil spirit who captures victims with nets that entangle their feet Wambeen, evil lightning-hurling figure who targets travellers Julana, lecherous Jumu spirit who surprises women by burrowing beneath the sand, leaping out, and raping them Kurdaitcha (or kurdaitcha man) is a ritual "executioner" in Australian Aboriginal culture (specifically the term comes from the Arrernte people). Ungud, snake deity associated with rainbows and the fertility and erections of the tribe's shamans Wati-kutjara, a pair of western Australian lizard-men Wondjina, Mowanjum cloud or rain spirits Rainbow Serpent, a common feature of the art and mythology of Aboriginal Australian cultures Thardid Jimbo, cannibalistic giant Yara-ma-yha-who, monstrous bloodsucking creature Bluetongue Lizard, an elderly trickster

Yowie ... https://www.google.com.au/search?q=yowie&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=ximqUveADpXloATbxYCwAw&sqi=2&ved=0CAcQ_AUoAQ&biw=1289&bih=525#imgdii=_ I used to live at Yowie Bay I cant tell you the names as I don't speak enough Bundjulung or Gumbayyngirr but here is a list of what has been described to me Little people; their foorprints are around the fire in the morning. hopping man ... he flips one leg over his shoulder and hops after you, he hops faster than you can run, (both these are also described as spiritual guardians and protectors) Three types of Yowies In the wider area; Bunyip ... min-min ... ummm this place is full of them (its a VERY old culture so ... )

I tend not to get into arguments any more about karma with white rich westerners (not that I referring to anyone here) but when I have in the past ... and I hear their justification via pop western karma concepts ... and develop their argument down their lines of 'logic' we get to the point where, out of frustration, I eventually ask; "if you see a nervous and frail elderly lady trying to cross a busy street to you go to help her, or do you let her karma sort it out ? They go to answer ... think about where either answer might lead them and then don't answer and end the conversion (in the usual ways; silence, anger, diversion, derision etc. )

Oh no! He claims to have had a mini psychotic episode ... but he is okay now. While he was psychotic he herad voices and that was what he was signing Down here we call that a Hopoate ... he tried to pull a Hopoate [ Hopoate was a foorballer in Australia who had a similar 'embarrassing situation' during a football match .. his excuse .... sorry, his reason was because he had a ... ahem ... quote : 'Brain explosion'. "Jeeze Bro, sorry about that! I had a brain explosion for a moment there and I had no control over what I was doing "]

"You will be greater than Mother Teresa." WTF ??? Its the same old story .... Yoga guru so hung up on sex and power and domination ... Jimmi Swaggart driving down the highway tossing porno out the car as the police chase him. " I am Jesus and if you really love Jesus then .... " Curious; I have been a member of two 'sex-based mystery schools' and there was hardly any sex going on ... dang! Next time I will join one that represses sex ... should be plenty of action there ! (and that is not a raspberry ! )

BKA; I put $5 on this thread lasting to page 2 before pit, any takers? Yep you know me .... I love to bet

Its a Buddhist concept isn't it ?

I think I broke something ... post window coming up with no control panel ???

An interesting article. The Philosophers ideas are valid yet remote and alien to me in some respects. Being closer to a Thelemite in magical philosophy, personally, the whole idea of sacrifice is invalid (or unnecessary ) however I agree with the view about the arrangement of the earthly substances of sacrifice, but as a way to effect the operators unconscious (the modulations of the themes that the soul seems to require as an acknowledgments of its requirements ) and not as an attractor of the Gods or sacrifices but as offerings to the daimonic aspects (inner and outer i.e. of the self and , for example, the nature spirits , Devas of Little People) but there is a distinction here between this and ‘the Gods’. Also in their concepts of the Daimonic hierarchies and ‘Gods, at times the line seems blurred, later work IMO supplies and defines distinctions (again I have to cite the works of Swedenborg, Dr, Wilson VanDusen and Patrick Harpur). The other issue is the still then IMO muddled concepts of psyche … I see latter developments as refinements and don’t see it as a type of ‘pure philosophy’ back then. At least if this is wrong surely relevance to current time, location and culture is an issue? In relation to the OP question I have to go back to my previous post in that it seems to be a meeting point or cross-over in the area of technique. The difference is attitude and in that I agree with the distinction made by the author in his last paragraph. I thought that was put rather well.

see below

Not for long {every time I go to leave to go to town lightening and thunder comes .... hmmm - getting hungrier ! }

You can look up at it from the floor as you lie on your pentagram http://comps.canstockphoto.com/can-stock-photo_csp1626703.jpg

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salamander_(legendary_creature)

Shhh ... keep your voice down ... we are having a deep and meaningful discussion, care to join in?

From a different perspective I have been on another site fairly active for years. It is modded totally different and does not have a TTB's flavour as you outline above. What some of the people have said here would be moderated and their post removed. If they persisted they would be suspended or banned. Action is taken fairly quickly. There are mods for each separate forum though and I think they work quiet a bit. There is nothing like a pit ... I think people on other site would be outraged if someone started trouble in a thread and some one responded and the whole thread was diverted to a pit and allowed to just flop and slop in the mud there ... I mean, I obviously don't mind a nekkid mud wrestle now and again but it really seems to get up some other people's noses. What would happen is that the offensive post/s would be removed and the instigator would be warned or censured. Also the different mods there have different styles ... some 'schoolmarms' and other quiet liberal and experimenting with freedom (which, as in any society, only works if its majority of members are developed and responsible). I don't know if TTB has a fee associated anywhere with it? The other site does so maybe that is how they can these moderators ... maybe they get perks or privileges ??? Yes, hats off to all mods. I feel this site is more anarchistic in that respect. I have read (only a tiny bit) about the moderation policy and ideals here and I believe a less strict approach was desired ? Well, if so, that will come with an effect.

Thankyou for the extra info ... here is my take on it. The rubber band is fun as it has unpredictable behaviour and it moves (double fun actually - it can spring and sproing and bounce back) ... like a ball, string, or small marsupial . Cat equates it with food as well as fun. The food water area is together yeah ? So the band is taken there and in the process of squashing it sideways with paw, or rolling it so it twists up and releasing it, the band can at times spring back or jump. More fun. Eventually it lands in the water bowl, now it doesn't behave the same way - boring. I want another one. Why should cat bother to fish it out ... that's your job to clean the water and fill the food ... get to it! ... And while you are there get me a fresh dry rubber band . Now set the camera up and see if I guessed right. Any bets ... bets please ... place your bets .... [it could also be to trick you, as you say; my sister has a bird that shoots hoops, she has a miniature half court for it. Sometimes it does a pathetic shot off court and table. But it always goes across the floor and under the lounge in the same spot. My sister who is fairly 'large' has to get up, cross the room, get down on knees and fish the ball out. Pepe goes over and watches from the end of the table ... I am sure he is smirking at it. .

Actually I would object to that! Considering the 'Slow Invasion'. That would be like putting up a statue of this guy outside the U.N. (considering what cats are up to and their 'secret' mission) ; http://www.fangirlconfessions.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/mars-attacks.jpg

I got it ... thanks