Nungali

Good luck ... one of the things we have to consider here is the absolute devistation of Okinawan culture, martial arts, rare books and teachers and masters of traditions that resulted from the invasion of Okinawa in WWII.

Yes ... I believe this is so and it cannot happen with out this ... it just isnt one thing- what you eat, or how you think. It is many things and what you mention may be first. Also for somehting like this to occur one must consider (and be in the position of) , as the Sufi's say; Right people, right place, right time .... and , perhaps 7 other things ?

Okay ... I will give it an uninformed shot. Truth is relative (IMO) so to be decived is to be decived about how 'relative natures' relate to each other (the 'Form behind the Forms'?) Knowing what the truth is , is to understand the relative (how things relate to each other) nature of things. I think this is important in Platonics ... to see things in their relationship to each other .... not as seperate entities containing their own form (that seems Aristotlian to me).

I thought it would have been obvious that what I posted was from Google and not my own research. I mean, I didnt even change the format. It is to show the most popular current views. Yet you seemed to have attributed all of that to me and claim that I am smarter for quoting the people than the people I quote I am presenting the other side as A side of the story, not THE side of the story .... but then again I dont identify as Indian, Aryan, Chinese, or Persian ... so I am bound to be biased. However I am slightly swayed towrds Yulaw in post 126 <thumbsup>

Ephedera .... Indra was a speed freak. THAT type of elixiir certainly didnt migrate to China and form the type of Elixir there.

It seems to work on a highly symbolic/visual/pattern/image level rather than words or lineal progressions. It is good for things like Nicloa Tesla 'Inventing' the electric dymano. The other system is good for things like .... like .... hmmmm ... accounting and economic rationalism ???.

If they didnt have the same vocal skills they apparently had other skills, perhaps this is where we inherited our 'right hemisphere' from (that works and communicates primarily via imagary and other non-verbal means ... see studies on 'savant autism '

Who were the first to paint bones with Ochre (which means a rite of sub-exhumation ... a series of death rites ... one cant paint bones without them being exposed first), place goods in graves ...ritual burial ... <postulates> and introduce symbology, creativity, art and reception of the 'other world' into 'us humans' by breeding with other types. ??? IE .....

Curious. One may notice (looking to the left) that I myself am a lizard. Under my floor of the cabin (right under the hearth) is a lizard 'congregation node' (on the physical plane), on the 'non-(entirely)physical' plane it is the entrance to a tunnel, which connects to many others (with nodes of 'quantum jump off points' that connect to 'quantum receptor' points). The tunnels were made by snakes but lizards guard them. Do I give them 'real, hard, literanist, everyday, meet-a-person-in-the-street, western materialist rationalist' validity? Of course not! Do the indigenous give them the same ? Of course not! Would I bother to try to prove their existance in that same realm? No ? ... what for? Can that ''Daimonic Reality" 'interpenetrate' into the 'Mundane reality; yes it can ... but in a different way. [ Goanna is my friend (or if you like totem - at avery young age I was introduced to him when an Aboriginal Man {at a snake and reptile show] realised my connection and placed on on top of my head ... tourists freaked out ... Australians laughed thinking it was a joke ... the Aborigmal man, me ... and the lizard knew different ... we were bot very comfortible with each other and stayed there until the Man removed him). My girlfriend at the time didnt like them. She didnt like the spot and got freaked out about me as she had 'strange' dream about me being under the house with goannas in a cave doing 'things' with them, I turned and saw here and angrily shouted "Get out!". She told me later as a small girl she was scared of them, they used to sunbake on the concrete path that led to the family thunder box (ourside dunny / toilet - thunder lizard guarding thunder box ) It got too much eventually for her (she who purported to be a magician and witch !) when she went outside to see what the noise was and there was Gungali amidst the pulled apart garbage (as she left the lid off the bin) happily chewing away on one of her old thrown out tampons. ... they used to tease her ferociously (as all deamonic entities do that do not get proper acknowledgment .] Xrays, plans ... physical evidence ??? A rare and unusuall person might be able to 'catch a faerie in the gloaming' and shut him in an iron cage ... but in the morning he will be gone ... as they say..."vanished into thin air" . Why do us westerners have the need to try and PROOVE on the material planes that such things exist? I see it as fault in our perception ... a sickness actually. But hey! Thanks for posting the story!

That's is right ... but how can I be replying if you did not say it. I did not reply .. I implied ... I implied you are smarter than you were pretending to be,

silly humour aside I agree with you. Why is the bottom of picture blurred? ( No ... of course you wouldn't know that ? ...maybe he is holding an unrolled scroll with formula for secret immortality pills.)

"Regime spanking line does not mesh very soon " Damn! I sorta suspected I was tying to mesh it too soon ... I should kick myself for not putting " 'the image of love and not love Genki likened candle store location" ahead of that. Last time I get on a spanking line! Obviously I wont have a long life.

Oh ... you have nice Armani suit ? or just an Italian accent ? Hmmm .... just like the Neo-Platonists ...

It arrived today Only had a flick through so far. Good company ... book produced nicely ... only the cheaper ones left, the expensive ones must be excellent quality. Got here quick ( I thought ), sturdily packed and when I opened it nicely wrapped in tissue paper like a birthday present .... black tissue paper ... house mate goes ; Ooooo spookey!

And the PIE people imported martial arts into India and then they went to China ( I'm joking.)

I am sure you would have I did say hands up didn't I? When what I I really needed was a poll. What I meant is ... and now that I have you here; In your opinion would you say more people (in the mainstream i.e. in the 'Western World" culture {regardless of location} or others but with access to internet and forums such as these) are more familiar with the Vedas than the Avestas (let's exclude India and Iran). That was the trust of my question . In my environs many people know of the Vedas and most know little of the Avestas and related material (Ferdowski, etc. ) (Excepting a few Iranian friends who were taught about it at school.)

Ani are ONE TYPE ( the ' prominent genetic expert' may realise that ... hard to tell as the quote is so short. ) Here is a longer one that might explain TYPE a bit more to those that see all Indians as one homogenous all act and look alike genetically the same people (from a number of 'prominent genetic experts' ...... with references ; Basu et al. (2006) emphasize that the combined results from mtDNA, Y-chromosome and autosomal markers suggest that "(1) there is an underlying unity of female lineages in India, indicating that the initial number of female settlers may have been small; (2) the tribal and the caste populations are highly differentiated; (3) the Austroasiatic tribals are the earliest settlers in India, providing support to one anthropological hypothesis while refuting some others; (4) a major wave of humans entered India through the northwest; (5) the Tibeto-Burman tribals share considerable genetic commonalities with the Austroasiatic tribals, supporting the hypothesis that they may have shared a common habitat in southern China, but the two groups of tribals can be differentiated on the basis of Y-chromosomal haplotypes; (6) the Dravidian tribals were possibly widespread throughout India before the arrival of the Indo-European-speaking nomads, but retreated to southern India to avoid dominance; (7) formation of populations by fission that resulted in founder and drift effects have left their imprints on the genetic structures of contemporary populations; (8) the upper castes show closer genetic affinities with Central Asian populations, although those of southern India are more distant than those of northern India; (9) historical gene flow into India has contributed to a considerable obliteration of genetic histories of contemporary populations so that there is at present no clear congruence of genetic and geographical or sociocultural affinities."[10] Modern anthropologists classify Indians as belonging to one of four major ethno-racial groups, which overlap significantly because of racial admixture: Caucasoids, Australoids, Mongoloids and Negritos. The Caucasoids are largely confined to the north and generally speak Indo-Aryan languages and extends till the plains of Assam Valley; Australoids are found in the south and generally speak Dravidian languages; Mongoloids are largely confined to the hills of Northeastern region of the country and for the most part, speak Tibeto-Burman languages; and Negritos are found on the Andaman Islands located on the southeastern side of the country. These speak a language known simply as Great Andamanese, a linguistic isolate not related to any known language. And finally, Austroasiatic languages are spoken by only tribals or Adivasis, who can be of either Australoid or Mongoloid racial stock.[11] According to a major 2009 study published by Reich et al. using over 500,000 biallelic autosomal markers, the modern Indian population is composed of two genetically divergent and heterogeneous populations which mixed in ancient times (about 1,200–3,500 BC), known as Ancestral North Indians (ANI) and Ancestral South Indians (ASI). ASI corresponds to the Dravidian-speaking population of southern India, whereas ANI corresponds to the Indo-Aryan-speaking population of northern India.[12][13] Genetic evidence provides proof that modern day Indian population was derived from two major ancestral populations — ancestral north Indians (ANI) and ancestral south Indians (ASI), and they both don't have major genetic differences.Till 4,200 years ago, the two populations grew independently and produced many more groups but there was no admixture between them. But during the time period between 1,900 years and 4,200 years, the ANI-derived populations and ASI-derived populations mixed together to form the modern day population.The ANI population is related to West Eurasians (people of Central Asia, the Middle East, the Caucasus and Europe); the ASI population is distinctly related to the indigenous Andaman Islanders.[14] The admixture of the populations between the two ancestral groups was rampant for an extended period before endogamy became the norm.The period of admixture coincides with increasing population density in the central and downstream portions of the Gangetic system, and deurbanisation of the Indus civilization.Caste, which came later, drastically reduced the chances of admixture making it nearly zero .[15] 1.^ Jump up to: a b c Vijay Mishra (2007). The Literature of the Indian Diaspora: Theorizing the Diasporic Imaginary. Taylor & Francis US. pp. 256–. ISBN 978-0-415-42417-2. Retrieved 19 November 2012. 2.^ Jump up to: a b c Sagarika Dutt (28 November 2006). India in a Globalised World. Manchester University Press. pp. 176–. ISBN 978-0-7190-6900-0. Retrieved 19 November 2012. 3.Jump up ^ Race Reporting for the Asian Population. Factfinder2.census.gov (5 October 2010). Retrieved on 2012-11-19. 4.Jump up ^ C. S. Kuppuswamy (28 February 2003). MALAYSIAN INDIANS: The third class race. South Asia Analysis Group 5.Jump up ^ Chandru (26 November 2009). "The Indian Community in Myanmar". Southasiaanalysis.org. Retrieved 2011-12-28. 6.Jump up ^ K. Kesavapany; A. Mani; Palanisamy Ramasamy (2008). Rising India and Indian Communities in East Asia. Institute of Southeast Asian Studies. pp. 537–. ISBN 978-981-230-799-6. Retrieved 19 November 2012. 7.Jump up ^ Imagens, Factos, Notícias, Informações e História sobra Goa India. SuperGoa. Retrieved on 2012-11-19. 8.Jump up ^ "CSO Emigration". Census Office Ireland. Retrieved 29 January 2013. 9.^ Jump up to: a b राजभाषा. Rajbhasha.nic.in. Retrieved on 2012-11-19. 10.Jump up ^ "Ethnic India: A Genomic View, With Special Reference to Peopling and Structure". Genome.cshlp.org. Retrieved 2011-12-28. 11.Jump up ^ Indian Genome Variation Consortium (2005). "The Indian Genome Variation database (IGVdb): A project overview". Human Genetics 118 (1): 1–11. doi:10.1007/s00439-005-0009-9. PMID 16133172. 12.Jump up ^ Nature. "Reconstructing Indian population history : Abstract". Nature. Retrieved 2011-12-28. 13.Jump up ^ "Abstract/Presentation". Ichg2011.org. 12 October 2011. Retrieved 2011-12-28. 14.Jump up ^ Priya Moorjani , Kumarasamy Thangaraj , Nick Patterson, Mark Lipson, Po-Ru Loh, Periyasamy Govindaraj, Bonnie Berger, David Reich, Lalji Singh (August 8). "Genetic Evidence for Recent Population Mixture in India". The American Journal of Human Genetics. pp. http://www.cell.com/AJHG/abstract/S0002–9297(13)00324–8. Retrieved 10 August 2013 15.Jump up ^ "Population admixture happened in India for 2,300 years". The Hindu. August 9, 2013. Retrieved August 10, 2013

And thankyou to India for giving them refuge. However in more modern times they have located in other countries as well. Since out of Africa ? What two races theory? You keep imagining I am saying some things (that I are not) and getting agitated at what yourself are claiming I am saying . Again ... not races ... I used the word " type " deliberately , it is explained below in another post.. "Indian mythology" ... what a vague claim and term. There is a distinct difference in the relationship between Deva and Asura in the earliest Vedas than there is in the latter Vedas. They used to work together didn't they ... pulling that giant snake to turn the milk to butter to reveal the hidden elixir ... it was supposed to be shared but then the naughty 'Devarti' Indians' stole it didn't they ? ... Didn't share ... Naughty ! After that we see a distinct difference in both sets of scripture; Devi eventually becomes a bad thing and eventually carries through to today where we have words derived from Avestan such as div (early meanings: divine, ) and later meanings evolving all the way to English (deviate, devil, etc.) While conversely, of course, the other side's deity gets demonised ... or at least down graded (see the significance of Asuras in early Vedas compared to later ones). Yes , I supposed you could ... you could go on to say that ALSO it is suspected that the PIE people split into two groups early on, one leaving the area and migrating south-eastwards into India (where there was already an established culture ) and the other eventually migrating farther west-ward (towards modern Iran and Iraq) and formed the Zoroastrians. Those that stayed back in that area can be traced through history by studying the ancient history of that area (little known ... compared to other ). If any one is interested in what I consider if not valid, but a very interesting side of the story try this site, its quiet well done has great resources, maps, images, etc. It IS a Zoroastrian site but that just gives it an interesting perspective and view. http://www.heritageinstitute.com/zoroastrianism/index.htm

Then I am sure you must be familiar with them then ... please excuse my ignorance ... I have never been to India ... actually I have never been to a place where " they all look the same, act the same etc. " . India is more homogenous than I thought ... apparently even more so than the small rural town I live in in Australia ... where everyone doesn't look the same (but similar ... I mean , they all have 1 head, some arms and legs, etc. ) ... they certainly all don't act the same though.

probably both ... but I guess ... as the system I learnt in I read described (by an 'outsider' ) as "They are masters of 'tai-sabaki' (or something like that) ... I looked it up and got a surprise ... basically it means to evade ... the opposite of being hard and solid and absorbing the force of a srtike with the body or a blocking technique. ... I always thought first principle was NOT to be where the strike is landing ??? Much of Okinawan martial arts that passed to Japan is 'temple style / ultimately sacrificial / defend the king' stuff and the rarer style (the one I did) is 'family tradition style (Seito) / protect your parents and your own life / self defence style. It is quiet different from the other style and contains lots of attacks to nerve centres, eyes, groin, throat, etc, combined with evade and strike (more of a stinging / whipping movement) to weaken/distract/break 'ki stream' for the application of lock/takedown/control and THEN deliver the 'killer blow'. (And incidentally it makes much more sense of some weird karate moves that seem nonsense and unexplained until one understand the variant 'Bunkai'. And I have never had to worry about an opponent with ' iron EYEballs' - once I brushed the eyes of a visiting instructor from another style ever so lightly with the back of my fingers ... not even a flick of my nails and he grabbed his face and turned and bent over presenting me with a wonderfully exposed right kidney ... most people I trained with like that (and it was in slo mo to demo a bunkai ) would turn the head or at least tightly close the eyes ... he though it was a little backhand girlslap to the face and he would grin and toughly absorb it. ) However ... whatever ... I wont go on about what I learnt as it seems the opposite of what you seek

'Vedic people' ? I am talking about their ancestors ... before there were Vedas , hence before there were Vedic people; the proto-Indo-Europeans who lived in the 'lost land of Soma' and came from a Homeland OUTSIDE of India ... that even some Indian scholars locate at the North Pole! And also a location that the Tibetans targeted as a source of their 'gnosis' (to the west) ... again, pre-Vedic and of course pre- Buddhist ... but I am repeating myself here ... its all in my previous post ... <sigh> but I suppose 'some types' will see what they want within it as opposed to reading what I actually wrote. I am well aware of theories that an Indian sub-continent people went through the Hindu Kush and into Pre- Aryana and helped the people located there become the PIE people and then moved back to India but by definition these people have to be pre-Vedic as Vedas were written much later , the same as the European components in their mixed culture were pre-Avestan as the Avestas were not comopsed either at that time. I am well aware there are two view as to where ONE OF THE MANY TYPES of Indians came from but I feel it is slanted away from the non Vedic origin view. ' Hands up here whoever knows what Avestas are and what role it plays in later religious development. Now ... same question re Vedas.

If one has K & C of H G A one is 'never alone' ... yet "Ye can have no companion".

Again ... a great disservice to the indigenous. Why not acknowledge them from what they have to offer and what THEY want to teach us instead of using their culture to support our own weird white view of what it means. Unfortunately , when communicating with 'dualists' one can only be heard in one of two ways ... even when one is NOT communicating in dualist mode that is how the dualist is going to hear it.

Well I was open minded about them and their approach until I saw their photos … and realised they were from Mullumbimby (okay that's maybe prejudiced but in light of what I write below – tell me my ‘pre judgement ‘ was wrong.) And now its time to start throwing my tomahawks: I went into their site and looked at their facts, research and evidence pages. Regarding their ‘evidence’ I am the first to admit the archaeology is intriguing and the DNA, in places, ‘curios’ in regard to current accepted theories but a lot of the evidence is in dispute. In any case, here is some of their other evidence below; >4,000 years: There are over 250 hieroglyphs found within a cave at the Hunter Valley (NSW), some of which, according to Roy Johnston, are from the earliest Egyptian dynasty. They detail the “stranding in this wretched place” of “Lord Djes-eb.” Unfortunately, “he was twice bitten by a snake,” and then interred in the cave. [Archaeological Diggings magazine had an article on these 'hieroglyphics' and interviewed a National Parks ranger about the site, he expressed annoyance at people still carving fake hieroglyphs into rocks, and that some of them have been caught in the act, recently some more appeared, he says it all started with one individual, who was caught, he was a recent patient in mental health institution. Anyway, it isn’t ‘Roy Johnstone’ its Ray Johnstone, I know because I have met him and been in his house, which had miniature ‘Egyptian scenarios’ set about with dolls in them dressed up as Egyptian Gods … apparently they come to life and walk around (one of his followers told me). He was (is ?) the head of the Brisbane Ra-Harakte movement, which had a few local indigenous members practising some form of Ray’s neo-Egyptology (Ray is an ‘expert’ in translating unusual types of hieroglyphics … unusual in that other experts say they make no sense ) . I observed ‘interesting dynamics’ going on with Ray. Regardless of this, the theory is that Australian’s spread out and populated the world, including Egypt. Somehow, ‘evidence’ of ancient Egyptians travelling to Australia is given to support their theory.] 5,000 to 2,000 years: The period of time during which a variety of Egyptian artefacts have been found in Australia. [That’s it ? No further reference to where or what they are ? ] >5,000 years: The controversial seven-stepped Gympie Pyramid. The site contains slag-the by-product of metallurgy, which is definitely non-Aboriginal, and a variety of anomalies. [ It is also known to have an ‘Inca wall’ around it. “Mrs Berry and her husband had a farm opposite “Pyramid Hill”, an area which had been terraced by earlier German settlers who had tried growing grapes for viniculture. Presumably it was this terracing that had inspired the stories of pyramids.” “Further, the minister at the church, the Rev Stan Geddes, has spoken out as having actually seen the wall built as part of a local council job creation project during the depression of the 1930s from material cut nearby at Rock’s Road quarry. At the same time a wall had been built around the nearby Catholic Church using the same stone but in a different style; this wall later fell down a few years ago. ] 36,000 years: Egypt. “Old Egyptian writings state that their civilization learnt to build pyramids from an ancient people who once came from a great south land in the east.” “According to the Turin Papyrus before Egypt’s first dynasty-preceding 3,000 years BCE- ‘The Followers of Horus ruled for 13,000 years and before them “the Gods” ruled for 20,000 years … their civilisation’s history dates back 36,000 years . [The Gods = Australian Aboriginals ???? Egyptian references ‘to the south’ relating to ‘origin’ usually refer to the source of the Nile and the annual floods. To be literal, India could be a candidate.] 40,000 years: Lake Vasiquillo (Mexico). According to Silvia Gonzales the footprints discovered in volcanic ash are Aboriginal. [Are they saying Australian Aboriginal or Mexican Aboriginal … I wonder how one tells the difference? “It is on this stratigraphic basis that the human footprints of the Toluquilla Footprint Layer are believed to provide evidence of early human occupation of the Americas, due to their potential age of more than 40,000 years ago.” http://www.fumdham.org.br/fumdhamentos7/artigos/14%20Silvia%20Gonzalez.pdf There is no mention of Australian Aboriginals in the paper (which is a rather good one) nor does the word Aboriginal appear. ] 188 years: “… records of the event were kept in a diary compiled by Captain Breamer … Sprung into the water and made towards the boat with surprising celerity, jumping at each step entirely out of the sea, although it was so deep as to reach their thighs.” [Australian Aboriginals used to have lots of contacts pre-European ones, especially with Trepang harvesters, who came here from Indonesia. Some Aboriginals may have travelled back with them and had other families there. Also I notice that disjointed pieces of 'evidence' ... extracts taken out of context ... well actually they aren't presented in ANY context ... they just hang in tha air as if WE are supposed to make conclusions for them ... as if we will know they have meaning or supply proof to the authors theory, there is no logical extension of argument that links these snippets of info to their theory ... they assume it does {? I suppose, otherwise why do they stack up these 'facts' } this is a common technique with other similar books ... ] 77 years: Professor Elkin’s account of an instance of first contact with traditional Aboriginals of the Kimberley region (WA) contains this entry …“when tribal elders greeted him Ancient secret Masonic hand signs. He was also struck by the startling semantic features present in the natives.” In what was even more puzzling, “many of the words spoken were of Egyptian origin.” [ Masonic now? This story originally went out as a Freemasonic Australian myth … to give validity to Freemasonry … I have never heard it used to attempt to give validity to Australian origins for everything – a novel usage. The original story relied on the ‘fact’ that the Aboriginals were making first contact with whites … later ‘proved’ not to be true, at least one other European had passed through the area before them (possibly a Freemason), in any case it all unnecessary as it is easily proved that Aboriginals utilised ‘ancient secret hand signs’ way before even King Solomon’s temple or Freemasonry. Aside from all of that, one would also have to re-create a scientific / literalist (as this is the world the authors are trying to prove things in) whole new theory of evolution or how humans came about in Australia as there is no chain of hominid evidence. He has done that, here it is; “In a ground-breaking Aug. 28, 2012 ExopoliticsTV interview with Alfred Lambremont Webre, author and Australian Aboriginal researcher Steve Strong reveals the existence of glyphs in Australia that affirm the Pleiadian Extraterrestrials as the originators of the Australian Aboriginal race. These glyphs, Steve Strong maintains, are also congruent with Aboriginal Elder traditional knowledge that affirms the Pleiadian extraterrestrials as the originators of homo sapiens in the form of Australian Aboriginals. http://golden-rule.org/tag/australia/ ] “Of one fact we are adamant: the conventional theories explaining the evolution of Homo sapiens, first emerging from Africa, are wrong on nine distinct counts. Equally, we are absolutely convinced that no less than 50,000 years ago Australian Aborigines set sail FROM, never to, Australia. They alone were responsible for introducing the concepts of religion, culture, art, democracy, music, boats, surgery, dance, astronomy, gender equality, and all the nobler pursuits and hallmarks of civilization to the rest of the world. Quite simply, they dragged all non-Aboriginal races out of the caves and into the light of the Dreaming. These truths are referenced in our Fact and fiction file …” [ A sample of which appears above ] “ …not only through Aboriginal facts, but those of many highly respected Indigenous Elders, scientists, archaeologists, historians and religious traditions. In concluding this overview we are strongly of the belief that the most convincing evidence we have is simple: every Elder who is versed in traditional lore is adamant they are in no way related to any peoples, whether African or any other race. There is no variation or disagreement in this respect, all we are doing is giving voice and science to an ancient truth.” [ A Bundjulung Elder told me that some groups of Aboriginals are related to some types of Indians and the Aboriginals can tell which.] “ Steven Strong is a secondary school teacher with a background in Archaeology and Education. He was involved in the formation of a Graduate Diploma of Aboriginal Education for the NSW Department of Education, writing units on Traditional Law and Contemporary History. He also co-authored the highly successful “Aboriginal Australia: A Language and Cultural kit”. [ OMG! I can only hope that; ‘was involved’ means what I think it does. I tried to check the “Aboriginal Australia: A Language and Cultural kit” out. Its existence seems tenuous beyond a primary School project ]

The article linked seems fairly comprehensive. I know little about it. I trained in Matsamura Seito Shorin- Ryu. In that tradition a lot of what you seek was hidden . I suppose if one trained in Okinawa and got 'in', it might be different The last great teacher of that line who died a few years back ; Koshi Nishihira would have been of the 'springy' type explained in that article. He used the term 'like a spring' a lot. Also he could heal training injuries with a hands on thing and when he did this his palms got very hot. Nowadays and with other styles it isn't so secret. But I would assume it has an origin in China as a lot of Okinawan stuff came from China. It was virtually a province of China and some times. A lot of the Okinawans went and trained at the ... Fukkien (is it ?) temple in China. There are also some interesting kata that are purported to come directly from Chinese individuals who came to Okinawa ; Kusanku , also the name of a visiting Chinese martial expert; an 'envoy' , Chinto, also the name of a pirate shipwrecked in Okinawa. But what you are asking about I think is encapsulated in Sanshin Kata .... not part of the style I did, so we did little of it.