Nungali

OOOH yeah ... hey you're paying off As well as agricultural tools as weapons there is always the good 'ol Aussie thong.

ermmma ... so was I ... I was just saying I am a chef so I could carry one. I need that! Let me at em !Awww ... I want to see Albanian weapons ... blurred photo looks like garden hoe (but prob not) ... yep used that too, saw a deadly demo with it (stepped back out of range of blow and bought hoe blade down across attackers leading foot/toes, turned hoe sideways, and got behind ankle, lifted leg for a take down and around so other end of hoe held the attacker down face first in an arm lock. Many of my weapons are farm implements or similar. Makes sense , got an excuse to carry them and the peasant cant afford weapons ... puts a new slant on it- in older times, imagine how used one would be to say, handling a rice harvesting sickle? Jo = walking stick Bo = pole across shoulders to carry water Tonfa = well or mill handle Nunchuks = rice flails for separating husks kama = rice harvesting sickles hoe= hoeing eco = fisherman oar (eco or ecu has a form with eco in one hand net or float on rope in other,( I like eco in one hand and fish in net in other) Sai ? Bokken? nah! No excuse, you're under arrest..

[Oh God ... I keep hitting the don't like instead of the reply ... If I keep that up I will have to 'knock' the finger with my bokken ] Ahhh ! Now they are coming out of the woodwork! Jo was so unusual to me at the beginning but I came to love it ... especially practising the 20 shubari (sic?) but against specific sword (or 2 sword) attacks. No, no sharpening or bullets but it does need sanding and oiling ... unless you actually never make contact with it on another weapon. Yes, sharpen the attention, I did clout someone once ... we weren't sharp ... live blades REALLY sharpen the attention speaking of which ... I forgot ... 3 section staff ... I got up to the part of the Chinese form where you sort of use it as a skipping rope (a downward strike with the middle section) and jump over it with a double front kick ... then the next move, the rear end came around the back and cracked me under the base of the skull ... it sits covered in dust in the back of storage now ... I made a foamy to replace it . I like the way Bo can do leg attacks that the Jo cant (OWWW! That pool que shot on big toe joint ! hop hop ) Did you do much with bokken (we got up to 6 multi part drills - first 4 from Mr Sugarno ) Did a smidge of training with Dave Brown here ... awesome! (also awesome for his explanations of many Japanese 'empty hand' techniques ie. they were developed in consideration of the fact that you ARE carrying a sword , or are about to or in the process of drawing it ... or a tanto . VERY illuminating instruction! ) "deer hook" bagua "knives" WACK! Oww to finger! I was able to have machete as it was in bamboo fencing tool kit . But I prefer NOT to have them 'handy' - wood is less messy, not as much 'splashback' (Aboriginal elder friend has good technique when he has to put on the 'tribal policeman' hat ... bundi {small club 'punishment wacker'} in one hand, machete in the other ... you break law , be a man and take the hit ... you want to get smart about it, I have a machete as well). How about a pic of your sword ? Now I am off to google a pic of "deer hook" bagua "knives". .... okay ...got em .. OH those ones. maybe wear some forearm guards for a while at the 'begin to learn the form' stage ?

Hmm ... never tried that (I am a chef too ... but not a Japanese one) I have adapted twin machetties from what I learnt from sai and kama (rice harvesting sickles) ... I think Capoera has a machette form? I notice one on a cooking tv show last week ... beautiful tool .... layer upon layer of flowing metal patterns in the 'blade'.

Sorry, I am not familiar with 'casting entities into the light' or 'healing modalities'. You quoted Levi, so ... I guess the meaning is his. In a way, what you say outlines the process, so, in a way, yes that is what I am talking about. But to be specific (and use your terms) I would modify it a bit; You 'descend' bringing the 'light' with you, it illuminates your fears, demons, devils, unwanted energy or beliefs. According to Levi the 'devils' are changed into angels (not led by them) ... its a gradual evolution ... a healing takes place, not only in the self but in these entities, which, although originally were an objective outside diamonic entity have become aversely incorporated into the psyche (ie. denied by the rational ego and forced into the subjective unconscious) their gradual rising into the light is healthy and holistic incorporation into the conscious world ... this is where these 'demonic forces' can be 'beneficial helpers' of a special kind (as suggested by the Lamas quote I made above). Its often a hard concept for those who have been conditioned by western ego scientific rationalism (me ) ... I found it best explained by my current shamanic teacher ( a Bundjulung {East coast Australian Aboriginal elder and 'shaman' or Kadiacha Man} ... in his country there are certain 'spirits' ... they seem pretty scary to most (even the aboriginals), one of them has a habit of throwing one of his legs over his shoulder and hopping at fast speed and chasing you , you cant run faster than him and he will catch you ... others seem equally spooky and bizarre ... my teacher when talking about them gets sentimental and describes them as spiritual beings that are the protectors and teachers of his people.

yeah ... sorry about that, if I doubled someone, I was reading all the replies but frankly, some of them were just silly and ill-informed opinion and I got impatient Hmmm ... v.interesting question! In my case it was a visualisation (in a fully fitted out Kagyu temple) so I ended up in some amazing old Tibetan graveyard (in my 'imagination') (also the trumpets, bells and chanting in deep guttural Tibetan helped ) On the western level I would use a different formular and although not quiet a graveyard visualisation (most westerners would consider it a 'descent into Hell' - but it is v.similar to Chod in many ways); like first part of V * OTO (western R+C Bodhisatva like ceremony) and Levi's Hymn to Honarius (I think it's called). Much more suited to the Western mind that may have not encountered eastern systems IMO. Sorry again, that is a quote (inverted commas) from a Lama on the third site down on google search ... I meant to post the web address but didn't (I am still having trouble driving this thing ... coming back from google I lost a long post yesterday ) What I would mean by that term is ... hmmm ; here we go ... (again, apologies a complex subject but trying to be brief) Daimonic forces and entities are integral and beneficial IF acknowledged the right way. if not they seem to get lodged on to human identity, somehow acquiring the human need for individual ego identity (which they aren't ... not their fault WE do that to them), if this isn't addressed then they can become 'complexes' and eventually can be seen as wholly separate invading entities or demons (which is an illusion created by human' traits' mixing with Daimonic ones the wrong way. One could say they are split off parts of ourselves that are seeking individual identity (because we haven't been able to 'own them'.) The Lama whose words I wrote probably wouldn't a agree with this but would probably agree with the remedy i.e. these entities now have a right ( and those that created them ... or others ... have a responsibility to assist) to spiritual evolution (I'm a bit rusty here ... I would need to break out my old Goetic diary / record ... it makes more sense what is written in there) No ... that's a very reasonable question ... I had a much better site reference that explained Chod in a great way (from some professor in a US university , but I would have to find it again (I might be able to get back here with it. ... but basically it explains a lot better what the above guy didn't explain too well - IMO) Scary , interesting, enlightening, colour, sound, cacophonous magical instruments, rounds of chanting, skeleton dancing tankas, .... all elements of a good tantric ritual ( focusing intent using the active mind instead of 'no mind' or 'singular mind'). It does seem weird to some but we need to remember this tradition came from, in part, old Tibetan Shamanism and shamanic initiation and transformation (in the 'otherworld' or by visualisation) can be a very 'gruesome' process. THE MAGICIAN [TRANSLATED FROM ELIPHAZ LEVI’S VERSION OF THE FAMOUS HYMN] O Lord, deliver me from hell's great fear and gloom! Loose thou my spirit from the larvae of the tomb! I seek them in their dread abodes without affright: On them will I impose my will, the law of light. I bid the night conceive the glittering hemisphere. Arise, O sun, arise! O moon, shine white and clear! I seek them in their dread abodes without affright: On them will I impose my will, the law of light. Their faces and their shapes are terrible and strange. These devils by my might to angels I will change. These nameless horrors I address without affright: On them will I impose my will, the law of light. These are the phantoms pale of mine astonied view, Yet none but I their blasted beauty can renew; For to the abyss of hell I plunge without affright: On them will I impose my will, the law of light. I heard a Lama say that in the past, and considering the mind set of some Tibetan Monks and they way they had grown up and been conditioned in their culture, family, etc. that there was a real chance that they may actually die of 'fright' if doing the ceremony traditionally and they are not ready for it.

. The thread title made me think of the Chod Rite of Tibetan Buddhism. But for that one might need a bead apron of human bones and a tunic of human skin ... and take off the top of the skull and cook up the guts in it and offer it to the demons there ... but that's for a reason. {No, I haven't done that ... just the chanting, temple ceremony and visualisation of the Chod Rite under the guidance of Kagyu Kama Lamas (the MOST demonically oriented, kind, considerate, laid-back and compassionate people I have met ! ) but you visualise you are in a graveyard ... some maybe still do the whole thing in a graveyard? } Go google Chod Rite .... on a good site that will explain why one might want to 'meditate in a graveyard'. e.g. " The meaning of Chöd is offering our negative parts to demons and the positive things, like good virtues and good merit, for bodhisattvas and buddhas. We're going to offer for the lowest realms because the beings in these realms need this the most. During Chöd practice your mind reaches a higher mental level. You need to visualize that your mind is pure. It is necessary to destroy past life karma. We are in Samsara because we are not yet enlightened, and we have a lot of debt towards our parents and other people. So during Chöd the mind resembles that of a bodhisattva. A bodhisattva is kind towards those who are suffering. To become a bodhisattva you need to wish that you can offer your body, good deeds, ignorance and everything. Chöd means that we cut the root of our ignorance. " If you do this with good motivation, it's very powerful. If you do this thousand times, yet without any good motivation, then it is useless. Chöd can be helpful if you have nightmares and fears. But during the Chöd, you must not show any fear, or else the demons cannot come because this fear would upset them. But if you're compassionate they will come to you, and they may even become your protectors if you're a really good person. That kind of protection is very special. Chöd brings a lot of joy to your mental state. It also makes the mind smarter and brighter. So visualize that you are offering your body, mind and speech to these beings. For the lower realms - offering everything that you have. They need it the most. Why? Because they are suffering. In previous lives they could've been our mothers and that is why we must help them. If we don't give that kindness back then they will continue to suffer. We must wish that they can become liberated . "

That's it? Come on guys ... I'll start then (That sword reminds me of those giant sized Katanas! ) But briefly (who knows, maybe I am talking to myself ... there must be some weapon buffs out there ??? ) MIne:(Okinawan Kobudo tradition; Bokkan, Bo, Jo, Sai, Kama, Eco. Aikido tradition; Bokkan, Jo, Tanto. Mad untutored work-it-out- yourself-with-your-fellow-students-when-teacher-not-around tradition; Nunchuks, Tonfa, Yari and whatever that spike on the twirly string thing is. Likes ; Eco - like a bo and similar usage but extra advantage of 'shuto' 'blade' at one end. Jo - versatile . Bokkan for the 'Zen' of it all. Twirly thing ... phew ... what an art! Well, about 5 arts in one ( twirling, shortening the arc on the body and accurately flinging the thing ... return / rebound and body position to avoid yet capture and back to defence / attack without leaving a hole ... if you DO manage to strike and entangle , dealing with that ... the fact that any entangled opponent usually just rushes you with their weapon (no it doesn't work like it does in a Ninja movie as a tug-o-war) regardless that your bit of cord is around it.... the whole jutsu of dealing with an armed attacker using the remaining cord in your hands as a defensive weapon ... and at the same time the jutsu of tying them up with it in a flash - like face down with both arms and a leg tied up the back and the other end of the rope around the throat (apparently Japanese Cops were experts at this until the introduction of handcuffs in the 1950's) ... now THAT is an art! Unlikes; Nunchuks ...silly ... sillier if you don't know how to use them. Favourite; all of them but twirly thing was best fun - I made my own as no one had one, carved rubber point for practice with foam rubber around it and tape ... fun part ... buddies hopping around rubbing body parts going "Hey! That thing still hurts ya know! " Benefiets, varing distances ... relationship ... timing ... Collectors here? Not me, but have a friend who collects weapons, armour, small ornamental parts of weapons and armour (some absolutely beautiful, inlayed with metals and stones and enamel) - he recently got old trad Japanese armour ... so small ! It has old blood stain on the belt !

I have lived in a spot with various types of bamboo growing. Over the years it has been a wonderful resource for all sorts of things; building shelters, traditional Japanese fencing, models, utensils. Its a great thing to work with ... a 'gift from the Gods' . There are things that are difficult to do with it (if you are used to working with dressed square wood) but when you understand it there are a whole different range of things it can do and ways it can be used. One example is when some needs replacing (say parts of an old fence) I remove them and use them as frames for the bird netting on the veggie garden. After a while they degrade further, so then I replace them and use the old bits to make new compost bins, when they are further degraded and not good for that I smash them up and use them as kindling in the fire place. That's 4 separate uses from one harvest. And when a grove is cleaned out, nothing goes off like a bamboo bonfire ! Anyone else here work with bamboo?

THAT'S what that stuff is! Thanks Pretty amazing, the sealed section within the culm is acting like an alchemical vessel and extracting certain nutrients from the soil via the bamboo fluids and depositing the' medicine' in a ready made storage facility . ... What a plant!

Remind me of once in karate class, I can hear the instructor down the end "Go and take those off" Guy leaves the mat with ugh boots (sheepskin ) on :laugh: Warning ; Ugh boots can get soggy and uncomfortable when one is doing winter morning dragon breath warm-ups under a waterfall.

I got that (I just got excited remembering about shakuhachi ) I am familiar with nose flutes ... from New Guinea yep, the clumping species is easier to control (just need to 'keyhole' at an early stage - cut a path in and clear the centre and harvest from centre outwards. Apparently the running type will not cross under water ... a good root barrier will stop it, or a deep trench where the new explorer roots can be cut back each year. It does make beautiful fencing, I have made about 7 different styles ... quiet hard at first but after a bit all the little tricks and techniques get familiar and then it is a joy to work with. I didn't know that. For years, I thought the bamboo 'mulch' suppressed other growth as so little grows next to it, but I started using the mulch on the veggie garden, it is a very good weed suppressor and doesn't seem to hinder anything else growing. It is amazing the range of things I have made using only the bamboo, a saw, a machete a section of 'iron bamboo' for the machete hammer (for splitting), fishing line and scissors. Sometimes I use coconut fibre rope or raffia as binding to cover the fishing line for effect. I have also built two largish shelters (with fold back roof vents, and fire pit inside) using bamboo, black poly pipe (water line) uv resistant plastic, shade cloth and roofing screws( for waterproof roof). The first I made for a weekend event, it fitted about 25 people comfortably inside and cost under $350 to make (less than hiring a marquee) and ended up being turned into a temple and lasted 7 years.

The Sakuhachi ! <swoon> Wish I knew how to make one of them!

Oh dang! I did it again ... clicked on the unlike button instead of reply ...sorry. (new at driving this) Make sure you get a suitable type for where you are ... in some cases running bamboo can be a big problem. Some clumping bamboo shoots at opposite times of the year depending on origin (you need one that shoots during rainy time ... we have dry winter and some species planted here came from a place with a wet winter ... the bamboo shoots and doesn't have enough soil moisture to support the new growth). 'Nice' ??? That is simple Zen like beauty. To have some just there in the garden is so handy! Let alone just sitting in the grove. We have a big one alongside the river, at night in the summer wet season there are 3 types of luminous fungi in there 2 green (toadstool and a spreading fungus on the ground and a pale blue toadstool ... add the fire flys of late spring and ... WOW! My current project is using the 'painted' - black with brown stripe - variety to make a 'spirit house' for that special part of the garden. AND ... its edible! ... not the house ... the shoots

Perhaps it has its finger on the pulse of current 'social trends' ? Someone recently told me this is 'fashionable' in some places lately. Yoiks!

I did it once.... yeaaars ago ... But it was a pretty 'hard core' practice of martial arts (which I don't want to name here). Turned up to training and went at it like an enraged dervish, at the end; free sparring. My turn, cleaned up the first one so teacher puts up another opponent, same result, another ... and another ... everyone ... then his deadly little brother (who continually got everyone with his 'invisible - devastating' side-kick) .. saw the kick coming (for once) stepped back far enough and came down with a double back fist on his ankle bone - that finished him. Teacher goes f. this and steps in ... cleaned him up ... ... he goes f. this again and grabs the nunchuks , which are fortunately plastic ... goes to clout me on the crown chakra ... I step back and make a wild defensive move with my hand and just happen to hit the end of the stick he is holding as it comes down, which decreases the other stick's arc/swing and it comes around and hits him under the jaw. After training teacher and the bro come up to me ".. amazing .. wtf ... etc ... there is a tournament next week, you are going to represent our style ..." Me; " Errrmmm ... there is something I had better tell you ... I took a pure Swiss LSD black dot before training." Teacher (aghast) "OH! ... well ... um .... look, you better not do that again okay." [ I am not advocating drug use and training though as there are a whole range of things against it ... I suppose at any moment (even in the tournament) my sparing partner could have turned into a Shoggoth ... and that might NOT have gone down well 'for the style' . Next week at training, at the end, free sparing, I stepped up to the line and got creamed ... then they all wanted a chance to get even .

'Higher worlds' is partly where he got his stuff from. I am referring to the Western Mystery tradition and technologies. Anyone who has worked with Biodynamics and alchemy will see the clear correlation. Anyone who has studied the magical correspondences and magical properties of substances will realise that many more preparations than 501 can be made with many more substances (minerals or 'gems') than quartz crystals. Not all his knowledge came from some only accessible Steiner higher realm. The issue I am talking about is some people NOT seeing that 501 works due to age old 'magical' principles but only seeing it works as 'Steiner said so' or 'that is all he told us to do' or 'it doesn't say anything about using topaz in the Agricultural Lectures'. But ... arhhh ... <shrugs> ... that's why I made the comment ; ' But we cant really blame an organisation and followers for doing that I suppose ... it is maybe an essential part of organisations and followers ?" I understand one has to go through esoteric training ... that's why I can get what is behind a lot of what Steiner says as I have done it myself. I was trying to encourage people to get their own gnosis and go through that training ... not just take someone's word for it ... but again ... followers and organisations. But it is within those very followers that some DO take this path and hence the system develops ( the good doctor never told anyone to use casurina needles to make a homeopathic spray prep to disperse mould and mildew on plants when they get excess nitrogen, but people into his system worked it out for themselves by applying the same principles that Steiner did). Here is an example; lunch at Anthroposophist meeting ... secretary chimes in (in 'wise teaching' voice) "Steiner says that when one becomes an initiate the first thing that happens is one must encounter the Guardian of the Threshold." "Gosh!" says another ... thinks .... "How does one become an initiate?" Secretary thinks a bit ... ( now in broad Aussie accent) " Oh .... Um ... I dunno. " I would have thought my comments on alchemy and agricultural gold might have stimulated more interest in Steiner's wonderful insights and gifts from western esoteric knowledge to the practical, real and beneficial application he gave . I understand the Yoga he incorporated and it wasn't just those two ... the systems Steiner followed have their western correlation in the branches of 'types of Magick' and these equate to the limbs of yoga, both with their benefits and pitfalls - which in a way seem passed on to the students and followers - hence we have those that only follow or get obsessed or entrapped in the glamour and those that realise the internal truths and system and immerse themselves in that ... it is a common dynamic and Anthroposophy is no exception. To make it clearer I am talking about the 'magical technology' used ... and that works wether one gives significance to Christ on the cross or not ... that is an analogy that demonstrates a 'magical / spiritual' process ... to have or use another analogy (even the compost heap *) does not interfere with the application of the technology. * I am not being disrespectful to Christian Anthroposophists here, I am citing an article BY them (in 'Newsleaf' magazine from Biodynamic Agriculture Australia titled 'Christ in the Compost' . [ I should add that I am obviously of the school of Scientific Illuminism and not an imitator of someone who has achieved illumination ... and that's how Steiner got insights OF the processes ... not by imitating another illumined person. ]

Life does move in mysterious ways, but more so some people move in mysterious ways. I have spent time with people on the internet, via email, working with them, offering advice , collation of material, research and reporting (paid and unpaid) ... and some of them ... ! (At least one was open and honest enough to eventually get back to me and apologise for disappearing and being weird and rude ... they had decided NOT to take their medication for a while and .... ) I am actually quiet surprised ( and that doesn't happen often) how many people DO have mental psychological and emotional problems to the level they (or others) think they need strong medication for. Some are just weird anyway; one recently sent me an email and told me to F OFF (in large print) as although we had been friendly on a site (not this one) I said I disagreed with their opinion ... they thought I should lie to them to make them feel better ??? Anyway I haven't had my meds for a week ... check your in box ... (just joking)

Oh dear, I am having trouble driving this thing ... I cant seem to paste of a word doc (or anything in this reply box) I had as a back up and then when I went to reply I hit the unlike button on your post ... ooops. I will try again ... Yes the sound is different , hard to describe; it should have internal waves and pulses of sound, like it is pulsating within the main tone. The sound from one ring should last a long time and gradually fade so it is hard to detect when it actually becomes 'silent'. Other tips; it will be expensive, probably antique and should come with a reliable reputation (from an expert or trader ... most knock offs in the shops don't come with an informed salesman). I was lucky in that my friends, importers were totally into it, wen to Nepal constantly and hunted ... and knew their stuff. They had some amazing things like giant thigh bone trumpets (yak bone nowadays , cant get human bone in to the country and Nepalese don't want it to go out, they want to preserve the traditional ones that are left), large size multi metal inlayed and jewelled dorjes, phurba, kartikas , skull choppers, skull bowls etc. even a 'demon queller set' (5 ritual implements; chopper, dorje, sword, tongs and ...? can't remember ... all on long ornate and jewelled poles) for .... battling and subduing demons ... But I don't think Ish would need that in the new room It's the same with bowls. A good properly made one will probably have to be antique (real antique ... they make fake 'antiques' too) possibly beaten . A good bowl, when filled with the right amount of water should make a geometric or 3-D mandala 'standing fountain' of water as the surface vibrates and ... well ... levitate; particles and little droplets of water seem to vibrate and rise and fizz when the bowl is struck and vibrates. AS far as being able to tell if the metals were mixed at significant astrological planetary aspects ... ??? I just remembered I have also used a conch in the past for a similar purpose - mostly outdoors.

Tingshas are great for that but in my experience they are a medium for intention, i.e. I don't just ding them and that is it, intention is coupled to the sound and 'travels off' or radiates with it, Some say the tingsha doesn't stop ringing but becomes less audible and eventually vibrates only in the 'other world' That is why one should not stop it or muffle it, I used to sell them along with a whole range of Nepalese stuff ( I knew importers who were friends with a family in Nepal). Traditionally the good one's were made of ... (I don't know the word in the Buddhist tradition... in western magical tradition it is called Magicum Electrum) a blend of the 7 planetary metals; gold and silver are cast together during the appropriate Sun Moon conjunction then the other metals for each planet are added when in good position. Nowadays most of them are cast from old blown engine blocks and assorted recycled metal. The number of symbols on them is supposed to relate to the amount of metals; usually 5 or 7. (I use a phurba too). I guess the method depends on your tradition (as opposed to a new one that has to be learned (there is good advice above on that). My tradition is the Western Magical / Hermetic. I suppose the base ' purification' is centred on variations of the banishing pentagram ritual . .. incense (fire and air) . knocks or rings, circumambulations, aspurging with salt water (earth and water), God name vibrations, etc. Stage one is basically clearing out the space and 'pushing' the energy outside of your circle or aura (starting from the 'one point' - or Hara ... I have a Japanese tradition as well). After a while, when one develops and becomes a little more adept a different formular is used ... acceptance; all energies are invoked and drawn in and counterbalanced with each other and neutralised ... but that comes after the first stage. My favourite is a little personal eclectic one harvested from various sources including the pentagram banishing ,, a circle purification using elements from a Wiccan coven I was in and a mixing and consecration of those elements (before dispersal) from the first part of the Gnostic Mass. Or sometimes I just visualise a blue/white point of light in the Hara and expand it out to make an egg of the same substance at the edge of the 'auric field'.

One of the things I like about Steiner is his ability to present something in a simple form (not that he reads that way at times ! ) I am thinking of Bio-dynamic processes (anyone here have experience with that ? ), in essence he - and latter B.D. developers - have outlined a process that is simple and easy to follow yet incorporates great alchemical principles and, when practiced by the intelligent and observant reveal 'secrets' of alchemy not understood by other alchemical processes (well ... by me anyway). And all of this without the highly technical equipment, laboratory, etc. (no more than easily available on the average farm - a little difficult for urban locations). Oh yes ... and it appears to work and creates a 'stone' of great value (more than 'gold' ) The only difficulty I had working in certain fields of anthroposophy was with the anthroposophists who would do what 'Steiner said' but would not go beyond INTO where Steiner got his info ... and get more. But we cant really blame an organisation and followers for doing that I suppose ... it is maybe an essential part of organisations and followers ? [Aside; I hope it is okay to revive old threads here ... some of them I find REALLY interesting and stimulating ( the ones I particularly like, I am still working through and reading the references and related material). I wont do it too much ... only when the board here has been quiet for a while.

Interesting topic this ... for me, since I am v.into Tarot. The title grabbed me, as to me, tarot is one of my magical tools. Waaaay back 'then' when I was getting my four elemental weapons/tools together I had a clay disc for earth with a glyph (of polarity) either side. It used to sit on my little altar with the other tools but somehow it seemed to lack physical function ( for discs! ... oh dear!) ... it used to sit sometimes on my tarot deck (in its bag) ... then one day it hit me; of course! Since then my tarot deck has been my 'pentacle'. It can be used in many ways. (I believe 'fortune telling' to be a gross misappropriation of this tool - considering its potential). It contains soooo much within, I am not sure where to start. Many of the previous posts and quotes indicate great usages and insights but really, we are just scratching the surface compared to its potential. One little 'scratch' or use ... or I should say, one technique with a range of uses, I often employed was to lay the whole deck out in a large space; 3 elemental trumps in the centre to make 'Earth', out from this a ring of the zodiacal trumps, in order, in between the planetary trumps (either by 'natural', natal or current positions depending on what is being worked), Another ring outside the zodiac cards with Courts (minus Princesses and an outer ring of the minors ( 2 - 10 ) in their position by association via decan ( using G.D. attribution). [Princesses and Aces usually aren't laid out (unless you want to go 3-D ) and considered to have terrestrial association with the north and south poles and give elemental association to areas of the earth divided by longitude... on this level the courts can come in with a cross reference and rule terrestrial areas divided by latitude.] Usage: To gain an insight into the relationship between tarot and astrology; to have a tarot symbol view of an astrological chart or moment in time; as a group exercise when starting a venture (each person sits on the outside of the card circle at the position of their birth and decan related minor card and we can see who is in opposition, trine, etc. with each other and what cards relate to their sector).

Hello all. I only found this site this week and have read a little here and there. I have various interests in a range of subjects in the western mystery tradition and indigenous 'shamanism', both from a subjective participatory level and objective cultural anthropological level. I will be spending some time sifting through the subjects and posts looking for the little gems of wisdom and insight you have scattered about, hopefully I can offer some of mine in exchange?

Oh I see ... thanks for explaining everything to the 'new guy' - I meant the black star next to my name on the Lobby index. What does 'Banned technician' mean ?

Thanks Chang. I read the pins and rules again ... just to make sure. I like it 'easy going' too. Yes, there does seem a lot here in my area of interest and also some people that are a repository of knowledge (the sort I like; not 'new age speculation off the top of the head' - I have had enough of that for the moment thanks ). Also I noticed there is some martial arts interest ... which I have as well ( my experience is in Kobudo, Shorin-Ryu {Matsamuru Seito - i.e. the family tradition as opposed to the temple tradition} and Akido , with a smattering of other stuff). I got a black star and I haven't even been naughty ... yet