Nungali

There was an equation in there ??? And damn! I missed the pie too.

Interesting. One view is variations of types OF species; the other view is variation IN types OF ONE species. It is far from Homo sapiens ... yet IMO Homo sapiens exhibit variations in types that can appear as variations in species. I did some Anthropology at Sydney Uni. Even waaaay back then the dominant idea was variation OF different species. I presented a different case, saying that examples put forward of different species could just be types of A species with a large variation. To demonstrate this I took a range of skull profile outlines with the supposed facial profile drawn over them and some related classic examples of artistic reconstructions. And swapped them around (hee he), most of the swapped profiles were not detected. In the artistic reconstructions I pointed out that an early dated ‘primitive’ skull mock up was depicted in rough and dirty clothes , had big floppy earlobes (earlobes constructed from putting together cranial fragments, jawbone sections and some teeth ?) a dull facial expression and eyes. The Cro-Magnon skull make up was like a Norse God … peering out to the horizon, proud pose, looking good enough to marry your daughter. What gives? Then I showed a ‘primitive’ skull outline … quiet weird actually, big protruding jaw, very large brow, lumpy head, with a facial profile of a Neanderthal. When I was asked what the point of that was I then showed that the ‘primitive’ profile was actually based on a profile photograph of my current work supervisor’s head (he was a weird looking guy!). I backed it up with some Anthropologist’s opinion that if one dressed up a Neanderthal in a suit and gave them a shave and haircut and put them on a busy bus no one would notice. Anyway, it didn’t go down very good, hardly got any marks. But later that view gained ground. The article seems swayed to that opinion, the bulk of it is variation within A species … the second view that comes in at the end is why can’t it be all different species? There are some weird ‘one-offs’ out there too, even today. The field isn’t immune from controversy and fakes either. A similar battle seems underway in Australian anthropology; except it is on a different scale but it shows an inverse development as well. The scale is variation within species type. The type is Homo sapiens and, specifically the Australian Aboriginals. Basically, for many valid reasons, and since the beginning of the anthropological study of the Australian Aboriginals, many types were classified, documented researched and analysed. There was considered a wide range of different types. Now, the post-modernist curriculum demands the theory view change to all one type, but with great variation. Years of research and theory and valid anthropological studies and researchers are not being considered as they are considered ‘old-fashioned’ … and dare I say it, ‘politically incorrect’. Some post-modernist ‘theorist’ looks at different skulls and declare; they look pretty much the same to me. Before we know it they are saying there were no north-east coastal rainforest ‘pygmy aboriginals’; the old photos don’t give the right view point and are deceptive; their height is reckoned by measurement related to near-by palm leaves on their hut roof and they can have different lengths … well what about that anthropologist looming over them in the other photo? Oh, there are only a few of them … probably just a small family ??? There IS NO Negrito ! Outrageous! Especially since then I have actually met one of them … a lovely chap, he was in a rock band! We talked about it and he was of course outraged that his people had been classified as non-existent. He was compliant to examination (he offered it actually, “Go on bro’ check me out.”) He wasn’t just a light built guy, he was sooo small, the skeletal structure as well, but quiet well-muscled and proportioned. That’s what they are teaching in education programmes nowadays and such is the world of ‘Anthropology’ one might encounter if they enrol in certain courses . I know what is behind it, but I have no idea about the political motivations within palaeontology though. Pygmy family next to palm leave hut; http://www.stewartsynopsis.com/images/Untitled2.jpg Pygmy family next to anthropologist; http://archive.4chon.net/new/2898297/thumb_1367853578241.png

You might enjoy ''A History of Ancient Egypt. From the First Farmers to the Great Pyramid.' - John Romer for an open and academic approach. 'The Riddle of the Pyramids' - Kurt Mendelssohn - from a sensible professional engineers perspective. [ Sorry no Aliens or levitation or ... but I like that ... I read that and looked into it for years ... YEARS! and came to the conclusion that I think 'overtly esoteric' theories on Egyptian engineering pays a great disservice to these people's innate genius who were much smarter than we are today ... come on Western modern ego ... admit it! ]

Old Ones. Here ya go guys. Found in a creek In Australia. Now ... if you find one of these fellas ... cover him up with a stones and back away slowly ... slowly .... don't turn your back on it .... http://media.boingboing.net/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/skull.jpg

I believe the marks and the theory that the marks are geological strata weathering ... they can be seen in other nearby rocks. I also think the head was redone ... I am guessing it was a lions head and some Mad King .... The proportions are all wrong ... pin head. In the Old Kingdom they were pretty good with proportions and accuracy, in fact as soon as metal tools more fully replaced stone quality dropped quiet radically in some circumstances. The much later observing Greeks probably knew as little about it as the pre-Greek, Middle Kingdom Egyptians . (Not that I don't mind 'layering' ... I learnt a lot on the symbolism of the Sphinx... but dare I talk about it ... I know about it, I have the will to talk about it, ... but ... ) Let's dig under it and see what we can find!

New and uneducated I am ...please forgive lack of etiquette but curiosity got the better of me; Why is the pathway to you Deity blocked with the international symbol for 'not allowed' ?

As a youth I worked at Rookwood cemetery - a LARGE one ... it had wild dogs there that lived off offerings left in the Chinese Section. This guy, that was supposed to be showing me how to do the job, gets excited when firecrackers go off; "Chinese for lunch today!" I am young new guy and a bit shocked. He sneaks off ... but comes back looking freaked out. "Where's ya lunch'" another worker asks. " Those f***ing dogs saw me and chased me! " "Serves ya right! " from the other. (I did enjoy the occasional waft of incense through the fields - I worked in the 'wild part' ).

Hmmm .... feels like I am carefully wading through a dojo of people scuffling with each other while I try to get to the book shelf on the other wall to look up something. It IS a dojo that is pretty far removed from what you guys seem to be talking about ... but could even be seen as 'descended' from some Chinese forms ... of course , it also has its natural and 'national' forms ( I don't know of any 'pure forms' ). And Sensei did say it is all based on White Crane originally ( his 'top kata' does seem to have some bird like moves in it). I will practice it ... some say it is silly; "That end pose looks like something out of Karate Kid." "No it doesn't ! It doesn't look anything like it! ... " Besides that 'pose' is a coded movement memory , that is just the LAST position I will end up in at the end of a certain technique - you don't expect us to give everything away in a 'public dance' do you? Allow me to demonstrate." <devious grin> ... ... " Owww ... Okay! .... but HEY! Look at that . .. Shiva dancing ! Did your style come from India ? " " I don't think so ... who knows ? ... but keep THAT down in here. " (PS. I only have 2 arms so ....)

My tea ceremony, Bush setting (I prefer large sandstone features around, native trees. including some Banksia) Campfire ( secret ingredients - in the types of woods used ), The Billy; http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/bd/Billycan-campfire.jpg Creek water … some smoke twigs and charcoal must end up in the water. Take billy off when boiled and add lots of tea - I prefer an Australian local product like Narada, ‘Billy Tea’ (brand name) is okay but a bit of a cliché IMO . Add lots of thin slices of fresh ginger root. Stir with non-toxic appropriate flavoured twig. Ceramic cup (tradition is enamel cup … usually dull yellow … but this is MY ceremony). Long life milk Raw sugar. Must be slurped … followed by Ahhhh !

That was a looong time ago when that happened ,as I said I don't use that stuff anymore ... no problem , I just don't need it. I remember thinking it was structured backwards ... or something ... should do the stuff in the back first then work forwards? [ Radical trying to remember as I am listening to v.loud King Krimson at the moment ] Old Ones? I am tempted to say: "Ha! Old ones ... You haven't got a clue! Sit out in the desert on top of the oldest regolith in the world (they found a zircon crystal there a similar age to the formation of the moon ... so it was formed when Earth melted and reformed from the collision) spend some time with these fellas that have been living on it (and around other ancient eroded places here with the earths skeleton sticking up through it) for at least the last 40-60,000 years. You look into their eyes and they turn into black far away pools, doorways into places you (and Lovecraft) have never seen. If your lucky they might play some music and sing ... and that blows you straight out the top of the crown chakra ... they know EVERYTHING ... in their own way and form. Delightful chaps on another level." I am tempted to say that ... but I better not. Anyway, here is a little taste (not like being there of course (especially when they are 'doing stuff ' to you at the same time ... those are some WILD 'tracing boards' that go with the chanting.

Yes ... lovely ... the 'other' site seemed to do that automatically ... if any thing it did it all too automatic and sometimes I would just highlight and delete to simplify ... this programme seems similar but set up with reverse options ... or something. Modern technology is my worse subject (aside from beaurocracy administration .... and spelling {where is the abc button} ) ... yet I seem to able to navigate through an Enochian tablet .. curious !? Interesting thing about memory theatre ... hmmm off topic ... can we 'go somewhere' ? I will check ' mind thread'

I used to wake at 4 in the morning on the dot every night ... it was a damp and cold situation in relation to a triangle between liver spleen gall bladder. Yours sounds more 'posative'. I worked night shift in a hospital for a while ... that is an interesting time of night ! Many different things go 'off' at 4am. I am not sure what the underlying external thing is, if there is one .. or if it is all 'internal body clock' ?

Oh! So you actually got the joke about the wanking and ego orgasm at the end ... without watching ... hmmm. I liked this because I lived a similar experience . Except I had to end with "I told you so". If a child has no father and no one else like that in their life ... and decides to call me "daddy" what am I supposed to say? "No! I am not your father ... you have no father .. get out! " ??? NO appreciation ... not even from the now grown up child. What do I care? In the moment of sharing it was a joy. Now is another moment ... with other joys.

AHA! That is how I do it on the 'other' forum.

I mean meds for VERY mild hardly psyche issues ... and not taking meds for BIG affirmed psyche issues

... Like my overthoughtout response to what is mind? I was wondering if anyone got that joke Did you like my response to "What is still mind?" ? I was going to add ; when you cant achieve still mind just do the next best thing? Q. What is the next best thing to still mind? A. making up snappy koans and answers to try to show one has still mind. Or (now) as well; occupying youself with contemplations like "what is still mind?" Maybe balance it with Underthinkers Anonymous ... a few on Taobums seem to be members (or should be) maybe you could ask them about it?

Cheers http://s3.amazonaws.com/rapgenius/1291131680_two-thumbs-up.jpg

Sincere condolences ... I have compassionate empathy for you ... in other words; IT SUCKS DOESN'T IT?

One successful operation. (Note. my version of 'application' not 'text book application') Logging protest camp, very sensitive area, a suspicious person turns up to camp, he is quizzed as to identity, he admits he is forestry inspector and wanted an undercover look, says logging operation the most disgraceful wanton vandalism and environmental destruction he has seen. Local indigenous VERY upset, sacred power site ... scarred trees detected, Indigenous VERY concerned; " In the dreamtime, bad thing happened, people broke 'law', bad energy got loose, protector called up, big fight in sky, goodfella he chopped up badfella , bits fell to earth, 'clever men'; sealed them up so they wouldn't grow back together again. That's what is about to be damaged ... the seal. Things getting hectic, full-on, bashings and violence, F this S ! Assistant and I told others to clear the front line one night , give us space. We did our 'thing' which included marking the large roadblock pipes buried upright in the road (that would NOT have had a chance of stopping the logging bulldozer.) with several seals. We did some other stuff, like a warning sign about the spell and what would happen if you disturbed it. Next day some of the protesters are really pissed of with what we did <shrug> .. Alarm - its on, a platoon of loggers, vehicles , etc comes down the road behind a giant logging bulldozer. get to pipes, dozer stops, gets out discussion, a few freakouts, driver heard to say " I have had truck tires let down, rancid piss bombs, but I don't want this s*** this is BS. I have had enough. " And left ... ... but okay Great! Not offering this as any sort of proof of anything ( a veve might have worked as good) but that is what we did ... and that was the result. I have other reasons as well that have convinced me the system worked ... but lately, years later, a lot of 'things' seem to work without a 'system' ... but that's MY secret .... until I can make some money out publishing the secret long lost 'Nungalicon.' Ps. the next day a stop work order was slapped on logging in the area ... now its protected. [One thing I do think about is ... when the Buddhists subdued the Demonic entities in Tibet, they pinned the giant mother down by building temples on the 'pressure points' ( of landscape and momma demons body), seems the Chinese have destroyed or dismantled a LOT of those temples ..... Can their http://graphics8.nytimes.com/packages/images/photo/2009/09/28/20090928-CHINA/30527006.JPG deal with the http://www.exoticindiaart.com/tantra/an_assembly_of_wrathful_deities_hv40.jpg ? ]

Like belief in Jesus as a literal character (unless I have the researchers hat on - which doesn't fit very well) I feel it doesn't matter. If the analogy and the system works for you then it has a reality and a validity. Parts of it seem arse about however IMO (but I fixed that ... for myself). It has worked for me in the past ... a LOT better than some other well documented and 'unfaked' systems. Wherever THEY might be? ... < sniffs back through old medieval manuscripts, Arabic antiques, Alexandrian archives, Magi machinations and Avestan Avatars >... I DO find correlations between it and the 40,000 year old native shamanic local traditions though so if we wanted to examine the question in light of such mundane aspects as time-lines then ... who was first? My shamanic teacher meekly raises his hand.

, (maybe one someone should tell him that if one closes their eyes ... it sounds like he is 'slapping around the unemployed' ... as they say The little 'ego orgasm' at the end is quiet cute .

ZHONGYONGDAOIST: I am still having trouble working this thing. A long answer directly posted in quote box can disappear, I can’t seem to come back from google and my own files without something happening to posts. If I try to copy and paste quote box to MS word it leaves out your quotes and hence references, when I do post into quote box from MS word it can go wacky. So … I will try this … italics = Nungali BaguaKicksAss and Nungali Oh … we are in the same boat J … snug. That’s what I get for complacently agreeing with Kickarse and not being specifically picky about exact meaning. (But she has this giant sword you see and …) I don't wish to derail this interesting thread and I appreciate both of your fascinating contributions to it, but the following exchange leads me to believe that neither of you understands the position of the Golden Dawn in the Western Esoteric Tradition and the unique and important contribution that it makes to it: Agreed, that I don’t understand it enough. (I am certainly not going to answer for K.A. ) “Certain mindsets require certain ceremonies ... or are invented by them.. 'GD style magic stuff' is quiet Emperor / mars / martial / forcing style ... one can (again, depending on the mindset and development), approach the subject and/or practice from an Empress / Venus / persuasive style ...( or just drug them with a magic potion so they cant help themselves { venes, venenum, venom, poison, charm, magic philtre } no offence to Venusians, but anyone who has been 'shot with Cupid's arrow' will agree, or those who have had another shot with cupids arrow with their name on it.” ‘GD style magic stuff’ (note commas … not the right words, but it would take too long to explain here) that in this case I am using a ‘magical pop culture’ understanding to quickly and slackly get across a point to others whose scholarship and understanding are not as deep and thorough as yours. I apologise if I offended anyone by using this base understanding and the GD as any sort of scapegoat. The following is a quote from the Fourth Book attributed to Agrippa as it appears in Barrett's The Magus: Then, with all these things provided, let the exorcist and his companions go into the circle. In the first place, let him consecrate the circle and every thing he uses; which being done in a solemn and firm manner, with convenient gesture and countenance, let him begin to pray with a loud voice after the manner following. First, by making an oration or prayer to God, and then intreating the good spirits; but we should read some prayer, or psalm, or gospel, for our defence in the first place. After those prayers and orations are said, let him begin to invocate the spirit which he desireth, with a gentle and loving enchantment to all the coasts of the world, with a commemoration of his own authority and power. Then rest and look round to see if any spirit does appear; which if he delays, then let him repeat his invocation, as above said, until he hath done it three times; and if the spirit is obstinate and will not appear, then let the invocator begin to conjure him with divine power; but so that all his conjurations and commemorations do agree with the nature and office of the spirit, and reiterate the same three times, from stronger to stronger, using contumelies, cursings, punishments, suspension from his power and office, and the like. (http://www.sacred-te...magus/ma245.htm) Yes, that all seems good to me. I think a clearer understanding of my view on these things depends on defining terms and processes that have developed since this was written … too much for here and too off topic … maybe I could relay that via PM? But basically I would add to the above, in way of further explanation, especially for the end bit; I might be sweet as pie to my dog … a few times … then if he doesn’t listen I will swear at him like a drover … he gets that! But I have seen some people have total control { actually it doesn’t seem like total control … maybe ‘symbiotic relationship’? } based on no harsh words at all … maybe this is sort of what B K A is suggesting? I chose The Magus because it would have been more readily available and thus influential during the 19th Century than the original. It can be seen within its wider context here: http://www.esoterica...ppa4.htm#chap12 I will note that I am familiar with Wierus' statement that Agrippa did not write the Fourth Book, but I am also aware that he then stated that it was otherwise worthy to be included with his teachers own works, a judgment without which I would be much more hesitant to cite the Fourth Book, and I am sorry that I cannot now readily reference that now. (Too big a memory, too many books!). Maybe you need ‘magic memory theatre’ (see my last post in What is Mind) ? A far too influential example of these types of 'rude evocations' can be found at the end of the process of the Goetia, which can be reviewed here: htp://www.esoterica...omon/goetia.htm With this type of information available to people several centuries before the inception of the Golden Dawn, why should such 'rude evocations' be blamed specifically on the Golden Dawn? Okay, maybe they should not be … only for the bad reason I gave above. And more importantly what about them can be specifically tied to some aspect of the Golden Dawn ritual system? And by 'ritual system' I mean the Golden Dawn initiatory rituals and the magical procedures derived from them and not some ancillary material, such as the rituals of the pentagram and hexagram. I would like to explore the origin of those rituals, I don’t understand enough about that …. but too off topic for here. The Golden Dawn ritual system provides a specific context for ritual within a very powerful formal system. Within that context it is possible to perform a wide variety of traditional material, some rude, some sweet as honey, it depends on the operator and the needs of the operation. Agreed. This ritual context also changes the meaning of certain aspects of tradition that may appear within it, and so it is not possible to make superficial comparisons. Well it IS possible but it does remain superficial. By the way medieval evocation is the Western counterpart to Daoist military magic, of which Thunder Magic is the fundamental component. So such martial 'rudeness' is not limited to the West. Even the name 'evocation' comes from an ancient Roman military rite in which the Gods of a besieged city were 'called out' of that city and invited to join the Roman side. Thanks for the extra info. Comments like that help me to understand things in a bigger perspective … that is a very interesting piece of info IMO. Finally I wish to make clear that in general based on your posts I find both of you interesting and well informed, but based on the above I see no reason to think that you are well informed about the Golden Dawn, I would come to the same conclusion about my comments, they were off hand and not meant to be detailed or accurate analysis of the G.D. system I could be wrong about this and welcome correction, I am only basing this on the above exchange and some things BaguaKicksAss has posted before. Nungali you are new here, but you are obviously an interesting and valuable contributor to the Tao Bums. BaguaKicksAss, has of course shown her value here many times before. ‘Flattery’ will get you …. Everywhere! J (joke). There is so much to write and clear up, again too much for here, briefly a few ideas; I can see view that ‘dragging a demon’ or forcing them from their domain into one that is partially attached to yours, ‘imprisoning’ them into a triangle and spotlighting and, firstly, politely asking, then if the answer isn’t sufficient, quizzing demanding and maybe even threatening them with or actually applying torture could reek of Guantanamo Bay style evocation. However, I find this useful ; “Therefore fear not the Spirits, but be firm and courteous with them; for thou hast no right to despise or revile them; and this too may lead thee astray. Command and banish them, curse them by the Great Names if need be; but neither mock nor revile them, for so assuredly wilt thou be lead into error” {and I find the rest of that document at LEAST useful }. At the same time I see the symbolic (and magical imagery ) value of an analogy of a psychological process (taking one view that ‘daimonic entities’ are either fractured or previously unacknowledged or hidden parts of the psyche or unconscious); The circle is a symbol of the conscious self and the symbols in the circle the conscious self’s analogies and metaphors of perceptions by the unconscious, it is ones ‘field of operation’ whose circumference, although defined, may be unknown (or its extent as yet unrealised) - we could say also it is a symbol of ‘Nuit’. Daimonic entities based on interior subjective awareness are then ’projected’ outwards into (outside of the circle .. which actually contains the hidden unconscious, subjective and internal) a triangle, a symbol of Saturn, or we could say a; condensation of Nuit into the ‘Mother of Heaven’ or Mater Coeli , a structure and form to ‘constrain’ pressurise and even ‘cook’ * elements of the unconscious to be known, understood or whatever as an external and objective energy. In this case ‘cooking up a demon’. [ I realise this is only one view … I hold other views on this process, such as a possible external source of daimonic entities ]. It goes on and on … but I feel I am going way off the thread topic … so, maybe a split or a PM ? * Why cook? Why put things in triangles or pyramids? Cooking (and smoking) is a way to make food more ‘civilised’ and in some cases (gentle heat and light) to preserve it, to stop it going bad and be invaded by other life-forms that will break it down. Many cultures ‘cook’ their babies ( give birth on hot sand, ‘smoke’ them, etc.) adolescents ( boys being initiated and buried in an ‘earth oven’ – heads exposed) older men and youths – as a type of ‘top up’ (sweat lodges, Turkish Baths, sauna) or a continual top up (Japanese hot bath .. note; this is not to do with washing … the correct tradition here is to wash very well and rinse BEFORE the bath ). [ First level initiations (and ‘top up’s) like these are about ‘cooking’ and ‘civilising’ the members of the tribe or society, a pre-initiate is born a ‘natural’ person, initiation makes them a cultural person (within that culture), they then learn the ‘way’ of that culture and society and how to take their place in it … they are ‘cooked’ to make them ‘culturally civilised’. (The next level of initiations are different, they are about making a cultural person, not back into a natural person, but a supernatural person; the ‘gruesome’ stripping off of flesh to the bone and the replacing of the bone with iron bones and replacing the flesh (Siberian Shamanism), the piercing and inserting of crystal rods (Australian Aboriginal) and a host of ‘diamond bodies’ and other types of trasformative practice.] With the first ‘cooking’ practice and the above view … the triangle has the possibility to open things up on a whole new level and see the ‘internal’ demons being possible candidates for further evolution and taking more evolved and responsible roles in the practitioners psyche … you lift up the base, the point of the pyramid rises and hopefully, visa versa. Much more could be written about this approach in Goetia I feel, but again this may not be the place for it. Thank you for your contributions. They help me to bring clarity to my ideas … a bit like being ‘forced’ (albeit very nicely and with choice) into a triangle. I hope the kafuffle under the tree didn't disturb your nap?

As you will , my potential friend who does not share my desire to bond ... unfortunately you are not going to clear up my flawed terminology (I even tried to use Arabic to get my point across as I thought the problem might be a language barrier). It is probably pointless to agree with you and seek clairification. < Both leave the shade of the tree and continue along the road in opposite directions, one looking angry, the other sad. .... The End.> Thank you.

Interesting in that the root of the word mind relates significantly to memory and you used the analogy of theatre. A 'magical memory theatre' is an old concept and way of using memory , as a storage and retrieval system of information, that gave some amazing results. See ; memory theatre of Giulio Camillo http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Giulio_Camillo (I think it was Camillo who could spend all night at a high society party, drinking eating and conversing and at the end of the night could recite every word of the conversations he had, had heard - and remembered who said what and repeat it all … backwards, if one desired, as well ... .

. Mind is an English word that, like many other English words, struggles to be defined by the English language without adopting words from other languages that have a plethora of terms to describe stages and processes of internal centred and generated (or perhaps external) cognitive processes, spiritual states, mental states and hierarchies that English tries to sum up in one term. In this case the word seems to originate (like most ‘mainstream’ religions, and Indo-European cultures) in the old Avestan language and culture as ‘men’; ment , mental … mentor, etc. … to men again, re-men, remember. Often traced to more of a meaning related to memory or the use of memory in the cognitive process. . Yes and no. It’s a loaded question, two parts - two separate questions in one sentence requiring the same answer for both. Especially since the question is asked before mind has been defined. I think the question is best rephrased by replacing ’mind’ with ‘consciousness’ and removing the ‘or’. We all are conscious. Consciousness has many ‘levels’ that we can access. We all have a level that is ‘located’ in us that we all relate to as our own, so yes to the first part of the question. We also have a level that is ‘non-local’ hence ‘everywhere at the same time,’ i.e. one … or ‘singularity’, so yes to the second part of the question. And therefore bound to get an absurd answer