Paul

Maybe you shouldn't bother with me then. In fact, why don't you find a way to avoid the Dzogchen thread unless you are genuinely interested in what it has to say from someone experienced with its terms.

Wrong again. It's not about what others will think of me. Its about humility.

Limitations means discovering what's hinders you.

Dzogchen is not a belief system. It is the end of systems.

Good for him I guess. I'm just relating what Dzogchen says, not what I say. I don't toot my own horn, unlike you or Steve.

People love to hear themselves wax poetic. Bottom line is this is a Buddhist thread and non-buddhists want to come here and start a fight, and I won't argue. I'll just laugh. That's the most loving thing I can do, because Dzogchen cannot be communicated to skeptics and denouncers. It would cause both speaker and listener to descend to the lower realms. If someone persists in trying to pick a fight, the most loving thing to do is to give them the boot. That's much better than both falling into dialogue hell. If someone has a genuine interest or has a sincere question asked respectfully, then of course the loving thing to do is to spend as much time as needed to help that person. And these are pearls. Those who come here to denigrate these teachings are swine. I love swine. I have swine coming out of my ear.

You're good for a few laughs.

go where your friends are then

LOLOL

LOL

ding ding ding

"The teacher must not invent." --Choegyal Namkhai Norbu

close, cross off the last line and you've got it

The words of the lineage are precious. Masters are very careful to preserve their meanings and to transmit them precisely. They convey unique ideas that contextualize and clarify this easily misunderstood path. So I doubt very much any of you know what Dzogchen is about, let alone the Nyingthig, innermost heart. Arguing about "empty" is just mumbling first grade words. As in painting, you have to learn to paint with the rules before you break them.

That's pretty stupid since I don't give a rodent's anus about their ideas. I don't have a need convert people. If you come to my center to deride what we are talking about, you'd get kicked out. That's the appropriate response here too.

You obviously have freedom to dream, but this is not what Buddhism means by grasping.

The analogy is that upon seeing a rope in the shade, one can mistake that for a snake. Upon further inspection, one doesn't see a snake but a rope. The snake never appeared or disappeared. There never was a snake. It would be crazy to insist the rope is a snake. This is the Buddhist analogy for a sentient being's mistaken perceptions. You may not like it, but that's not my business.

I don't have a misunderstanding of Dzogchen. I have training in it from several realized beings.

Get a clue. This is a buddhist thread. If you are here to deride buddhism, then hell with you. I don't know what you believe in, but I won't be going there to tell you your views are trite. I signed up and paid a fee. So no, I didn't pay twice.

The terminology of lineage isn't trite. I don't care if you don't like it. You were rude. So hell with you.

You lack a sense of humor. I'm answering the OP, what does Dzogchen mean by wisdom, not what I mean. Dzogchen is beyond explanations. It is something that a master can transmit to someone who has that interest. There is nothing to say to those who don't. That's my experience.

That's bullshit.

You clearly don't understand the analogy. If you'd like an explanation let me know. Otherwise, I'll let it go.

This is sad. Yeshe is seeing awareness appears empty. These flip attitudes are bullshit.

I am touched by the devotion of the prostrators. Westerners should strive for this.