bax44

Yeah Karl, I think youre describing the "lower brain" a remnant from our beginnings that in todays age is out-of-date. Yet most of us are still running our machines from this space. I think what effective meditation-bodywork-and I will put things like the trivium in here as well- can do is take one more towards a different mode of functioning where these pulls of the old brain circuits begin to lose their grip.

when I started meditation I used a mantra for like the first 2 months. I think it was useful in the beginning when my mind was going crazy just trying to sit still for 5 minutes, but after a time I sort of naturally dropped that and focused on the breath. I can see how it might lead to a more trance like state as opposed to gaining clarity, but I see people have reported decent results with it. Just wasn't for me.

I don't know if the OP aimed it at Karl. Karl certainly references Rand quite a bit and doesn't seem to question her at all. IMO Karl does bring a lot to the forum Ive been grateful to read, so its nothing at all personal. But Im glad Steve started the thread, Its important to question these things.

I participated in what would become a locked thread the other day where Rand was used as the prime example in an argument. Ive always had a hard time with Rand-and mostly the last few years when thinking about her philosophy. I did truly enjoy Atlas shrugged and to a lesser extent the fountainhead-they certainly entertained me-and A lot of the ideas made reasonable sense for sure,but upon finishing them something seemed..off. Well I think Ive figured out why, at least in my case. Under her type of construct Id probably be dead or on the streets. I have a chronic illness and without getting too specific the help Ive received has enabled me to get through a lot of the roughest of it and am finally starting to heal. I suppose this is me being a selfish objectivist in a way but for me, life and reality has shown me that her philosophy would be untenable. The importance of not buying into these philosophies(created by another human, to me this is always huge to remember) hook line and sinker can leave you with huge blind spots and more than likely put you in a new prison you thought you escaped. edited for grammar

You and I will not agree on the meditation issue I fear, Karl, and that's fine. You apparently had or are projecting an entirely different experience onto it than Ive had. To me it does nothing like "put one above reality" but instead puts one more in touch with reality. I can only speak for myself, but if this is a conclusion you've drawn and your stating it as fact Id say you could try re examining your beliefs. Rand has some good things to say, but again deciphering what and what not to leave out is key, which I hope you have. I have seen you reference Rand a bunch of times and not often question much of what she espouses. The worlds been ending for millennia according to each generation theirs is the last and they are sure of it. Horrible things happen everyday, I am not denying that at all..but the world.. Its still here and its not quite the "hellhole" I saw you describe in another thread. If this is where your belief system has led you then perhaps the machine has malfunctioned to a certain extent and your reality tunnel should be looked at a bit closer.

City in UCL qualifiying today. this is the yr they break through... Gooooo cittaaayyyy

If meditation is "abdicating the mind"( I call bullshit) then what is swallowing another human beings(rand) philosophy whole called?

Gooooo Citttaayy

wow that link made so much sense to me. thanks for sharing Bindi.

.Seems to me that believing in karma is kind of an excuse to be a victim. Like "oh all these bad things are in my life, guess its my karma". Like most belief systems I can easily see it ensnaring someone and making them feel even more helpless and powerless. I guess it goes the other way, too. If a few good things happen, now Ive convinced myself that my karma is to have all these things happen, therefore it can help my mindset. At the end of the day to me its just another paradigm to acknowledge that people believe in but is of no real use in reality. It also means very little to me that people in sri lanka or wherever all believe their misfortunes are tied to this word. Many groups, cults, etc believe in a million fantasies based on man made words. I do have a real issue with someone looking at someone elses misfortune and proclaiming that that person somehow had it coming from indiscretions in another life. Something about it strikes me as arrogant. I don't need to believe in karma to have compassion or empathy for that person either. Just based on the fact that they are a fellow human going through pain can sometimes evoke compassion or whatever . But then again humans burned each other for being "witches" so nothing really surprises me. edit... I shouldn't say I have a "real issue" with it(or Gerard for that matter), mostly just trying to understand where this line of thinking comes from. It honestly seems very bizarre. I can understand "karma" in the sense of trying to change ones habits or transcend ones own proclivities that holds them back, but when we start speaking of other lives etc...I get the snake oil vibe. And since Gerard says in his OP that the hell realms are "as real as the real world"..well, I would really like to understand that. We are told from a young age that we need to feel guilty about things we have very little control over(religion,etc) .. Now Im supposed to feel I need to make up for something I may have done..in another life? hahah.Sometimes I am glad I haven't read most of the ancient texts or whatever where these things seem to be taken on blind faith. A lot of People seem to have an all or nothing arrangement with them as opposed to taking the sensible parts and using them and burning the rest.

Gerard-So you are basically saying that the girl was raped and mutilated because she "had it coming" from another lifetime. Got it. Sounds to me like another screwy belief system wrapped up in flowery prose to make it all sound all... "spiritual" and stuff. Think its best If I bow out of this thread now.

Gerard- Im not sure what youre getting at with that story about the young lady-It almost reads as though youre saying that somehow it was her karma which you believe caused that particular horrific incident? Am I reading that correctly? Its late and Im tired so I admit I could be reading it wrong.

Yeah I think you're being a bit of a tight ass in This instance, no offense.(you wanted honesty haha) . Seriously what's the harm in having positive self talk? That's really all the thread is about. You're projecting a lot of other things onto it and making it a tad more serious than was intended. Just my opinion:)

Good lord Karl loosen the corset a little lol. I sorta get where you're coming from but I think you've taken things way out of the context of the original spirit the thread was made in. As the learner said this is something that is pretty much part and parcel of being a human being, and I'd say everyone does it to some extent wether they realize it or not.

why?

Ha this is funny or serendipitous or something. Was recently thinking about how most (90 plus percent) of females I meet ask what I do for work straight out. You could make a joke out of it. tell them you sing at funerals. Or deliver ice cream but only on days that begin with S. Most WILL judge you for what you do or dont do work wise, and the sad fact is most will let that dictate their interest from then on. yesterday was watching a youtube video from someone who talks about how our morality as a society is way out of alignment and he brought up this very issue. Our recognition of each others "worth" is becoming less and less about what we can offer as human beings in a moral sense and more about what we earn or what job we have, etc. So instead of asking "whats your job", a more conscious individual may ask what your views on right/wrong are, or things of that nature which hold true value.. Just something to think about before you go beating yourself up about this.. flip the script, start demanding that the ones you interact with have more depth to them and havent totally been conditioned into a more basist type worldview. Just a thought. Im not saying its not good to get to know one another in a superficial manner at first, but when its a theme that repeats where most you meet want to know right out the gate, Ive taken it to be somewhat of a red flag.

I wouldnt follow their breathing instructions.. they are different than what the method actually recommends. most the work should be done on the inhale, not the exhale like that site suggests.. Do the deep inhale and just let the breath go, as opposed to "blowing up the balloon" as the high existence site recommends. Its MUCH better this way. I tried it the way they recommend the first few days and felt like I was really straining myself. Just a tip.

yeah Ive only been going for 5 days now, usually do 3-4 rounds of the breathing followed by the cold shower.. Ive had a couple late nights and have been very sloppy w diet and alcohol and yet I feel pretty energized. I cant attribute it all to the cold either as I have long been using cold to cool down the inflammation in my body(I have chronic fatigue).. The breathing is definitely doing something. I also as I said do reichian breath/bodywork 1-2 times a week and I find that this practice compliments that to a great degree. Similar breathing styles. I also feel like as if I am not breathing as much and not needing as much air during the day. According to the bueteka(sp?) breathing method they claim that someone who is healthy doesnt need to breathe as often. Pretty interesting stuff but so far the experiment has been succesful enough for me to continue.

Yeah it definitely is doing something.. Like I said in my post above I tend to feel a little spaced out for a time after the breathing and the cold exposure but then a few hours later I feel very relaxed, warm, and loose. Has this been your experience? haha I probably shouldnt read stuff online, you have skeptics telling you the breathing is "dangerous" etc etc, hence my post above. I have a chronic health condition so I really am intrigued by the method and possible immune benefits, etc.

Anyone have any thoughts on the safety of the breathing? Of course you read things online about the danger of the breath hold and fainting but Im talking about the possibility of starving the brain of oxygen. From what I understand it decreases Co2 levels which allows more o2 to be uptaken, but first theres a big O2 drop similar to being in high altitudes. I notice some light headedness obviously but then feel pretty great later on. Just wondering if anyone experienced in the methods had any thoughts on this

Today was my 4th day practicing the breathing. The first day I could only hold after the 30 breaths for about 25 seconds. Today I got a minute and ten seconds after 3 rounds of the breathing. whatever it does, it works rather quickly. I was shocked at getting over a minute as after the first day I was thinking there was no way it would be possible to go past 30 seconds without passing out.

Started doing the breathing and cold showers a few days ago. Ive always intuitively liked the cold water so this just seemed like a no brainer. I do meditation and reichian bodywork/breathing as well, and this seems to go along with those practices beautifully. I have a feeling this can be very powerful if one sticks with it. The feeling one gets after doing the breathing and the cold shower is excellent. will keep following this thread.

Hi guys Ive been following this forum for a few years now after beginning my meditation and "spiritual" journey. In that time my perspective has definitely changed regarding the whole process and how it has unfolded for me has been quite unexpected. I love this forum and it has helped me out a lot in times when I was feeling somewhat lost. Having said that, I see sometimes what I percieve to be a disturbing trend on not only this but other spiritual type places online. There seems to be a lot of skepticism or vitriol when someone posts their meditation or other work experiences. I see people getting all wrapped up in terminology, semantics, and other dogma telling those who are reporting their experience that they cant possibly be valid because of some text written thousands of years ago bein taken as gospel. I am NOT saying these texts dont have value, but all too often I see them as being used as a sword against anothers efforts, rather than a support system. A lot of times it seems "You have to pay your dues" and maybe youll find "enlightenment" after meditating in a cave for 30 years IF you have burned off your karmic debt and even then its not guaranteed but will give you good sted in your next life....I find this ridiculous, and also may push away others who are interested in evolving themselves. The last 6 months having been feeling more and more "in my head" about all of it, I was becoming discouraged.It seemed meditation wasnt having as great an impact, and what had started out as a journey with no expectations had turned into somewhat of an obsession to "get somewhere".. To where I didnt know but I kept reading there was "more" if I just kept at it. Anyways I came across a very simple yet astoundingly powerful meditation technique called sense and feel, from command z and radical undoing. The focus and emphasis on the body and what is happening in it and ones own experience was astounding to me, and over the course of just a few sessions relieved the "in my head" feeling and also deepened my regular meditation. Its simply lying down and reporting aloud every sensation in your body with no voluntary movements and/or judgements. Going from one report to the next without any pauses in your voice stream. It has a twist of vippasana in it, however what seperates it for me is the verbalizing of the sensations. it seems to totally cut out any possible chatter and puts you in direct contact with your body. For me the technique has been so powerful and utterly broken apart any concerns over wether I was "getting anywhere" and has slowly but surely put me in a much more grounded state. I know of many others who have used it as well and all say very similar things. I think for anyone who Is feeling a bit dissillusioned about the whole "enlightenment perfection" that pervades a lot of these places, this technique can quickly and thoroughly bring one back into their space and drop all of it in favor of a direct, enlivening experience. Anyways just thought I would give back a little to this forum that has helped me greatly in the past by sharing this meditation that has helped me so much.

Same here Ridzin, I started off by using Jack Willis' book on my own, and have now done some stuff with command Z which has taken it to another level .its a simply amazing practice, Really unlike any kind of yoga or qigong that I have practiced. I was just posting the sense and feel because its an easy technique anyone can use quickly to ground themselves in their body:)