LeoViridis

Tongkosong, thanks for your reply. I fully understand, you cannot break the rules of the school. I also don't doubt you are a student of the MoPai school. What I asked was, when you said that Jim's instructions are improper, are you OK with them being posted as "real MoPai"? Being an indoor student yourself, are you OK with everything that was posted in this thread, being posted as "real MoPai"? This was my question, as you seem to disagree with the lessons Jim gave.

No, we don't need to necessarily conclude that. Check the statement again; Kosta's Answer: MoPai neikung is strictly energetics. It was primarily developed for combat after all. Swords were also primarily developed for combat. And swords can be *TOOLS* for combat. But stand alone, swords themselves aren't martial arts - they are tools that can be utilized for martial art. Martial art (at least the kind with swords), on the other hand, can be thought as a system that teaches how swords can be used in combat, in this case. But swords don't need to necessarily ve used for combat. They can also be collector's items or pieces of art. Same goes for Mo Pai and Nei Gong. It can be used in combat, can be utilized to defeat and kill, but it's not a combat art on itself. The same as my sword example.

You know you are breaking copyright laws by posting Jim's book "Seeking the Master of Mopai", publically, for free. Do the right thing and at least post the link to amazon where one may get the book legally. It doesn't cost that much, and you don't run the risk of being sued, and you'd do the right thing that way. Jim's lessons may not have copyright claims, because they are private. But his book does, since it's published. Beside that, to my knowledge, MPG never claimed to be a teacher. Your SOTG-MoPai is also faulty, I hope you know that, given that you aren't an indonesian indoor student - all you have, as I've pointed out, is assumptions, thinking that Mo Pai is a martial art. In that interview, Kosta also said the Mo Pai is all about energetics, no?

Oh, you were serious? I thought that was obvious sarcasm. In that case, you say you're talking to Jim's spirit, and he says SOTG is better off with his lessons and his "lineage", than his actual students from his "lineage" (excluding myself here, because I wasn't a student of Jim's)? Not that I shun spirit communication or anything, but that is quite a bold statement. You should prepare something to back it up, in my opinion.

Sure, it may have primarily been develop for combat, but even so, that doesn't make it necessarily combat martial art, does it? It just means it has connections to combat, or can be used for combat, similar to how swords were developed for combat, but swords in themselves are not a combat art. Just a tool. I'm stating my opinion in this thread on what I think is right. If I was, for example, interested in a certain branch of Qi Gong, and someone posted something that I would disagree with, I'd post my opinion about it, similar how I did here. Just thought I'd clarify this, in case it wasn't clear.

Touché. The techniques may be lacking, but then, do you fully salute what you deem as improper techniques, posted as MoPai?

I'm sorry, but you were the one who said I should discuss my opinion here. If you'll look at my posts, you'll see that there was no sense of anger behind them, except for the last 3 posts or so, for which I appologized already. And I wasn't the one who raised Lin, SOTG pointed him out a few posts prior to me. I merely responded.

The last couple of post were indeed a bit angry, I was rather ticked offat the moment, I appologie if anyone felt insulted. Why would they need Kung Fu, if MoPai was already a combat martial art? And how would John Chang use it to heal in that case? Granted, Nei Gong does develop certain abilities, but that alone doesn't make it a full fledged combat art, as these abilities aren't necessarily used for combat. And, you think I'm Dorian? How did you get that idea? I live in a whole other country than Dorian, and I've really spoken to him only a couple of times. If anyone has doubts about that the mods can check my account, or I can show you my language, or something.

I've been lurking on TheTaoBums for quite a while before registering. So I've read a lot of threads concerning Lin and similar scammers. How am I the one insulting? Sure, certain things ticked me off, but I didn't roughly insult anyone, to my knowledge.

That is very unpleasant joke.

You are not "shining the light". You are spitting on a dead person, who deserves high respect. His student also probably won't be too happy. There is no "Western MoPai mistique or secret power" over anyone. None of us, that I know of, ever refused helping anyone. If anyone had Jim's training info, they probably didn't share it out of RESPECT, something you lack. The irony of you is: You keep selling assumptions as "real info", on a subject you have no knowledge in. MoPai is Nei Gong, not a combat martial art. Where did you get that idea? If MoPai would be a combat art, it wouldn't be taught alongside a Kung Fu style. You show again that you're clueless.

Excuse me... who was crapping on the conversation here? Mixing everything togheter, posting it as "real info", and when someone disagrees that's crapping on the conversation? This seems rational to you? I don't hate this forum. Why the "MP'ers" (as you say) keep coming back is not because of enjoyment. It's because some people dislike the idea of assumptions being shared as facts and "real info". This confuses people. Abou your master... I'd like to point out that anything can be said on the internet. I could claim that I just saw Jesus dancing with Buddha, and after that he gave me a golden penny, and that I am far more miraculous than any of you or any human at all. Internet talk. However, in case I am mistaken, and you did find a good teacher, then I am happy for you. Assuming you are rational, or at least somewhat rational, you will know nothing posted by SOTG here is solid info. It was assumptions at most.

Yeah they buy it from scammers like Lin... and congratulations, you've just opened up the door for even more scammers. A potential scammer will look at that info, take it, edit it a bit, then make books and sell it to make hundreds off of desperate people. You think he would try to sell it like "Jim's lessons on MoPai"? Of course not. He'd probably do it in the line of "The *REAL* MoPai level 2", and make it seem as though everything else is fake. You've outdone yourself. And you think you can help people, when they run into health issues? Can you say that with 100% certainty? And what's more, help them over the internet? You make it seem as though you are experienced, wise nd know something, but in truth, you are just like a child. Unable to think about the consequences of your actions.

Wrong. Not just slightly wrong, completely wrong. There were supplements suggested by MPG, but they were never suggested as essential in training. Just a couple of supplements, which help relax and which help the mind. Buddhist monks who practice Zen drink green tea as a supplement, so they don't fall asleep during meditation, what he suggested was of similar value. Grounding wire is a substitution for sitting outside on earth. It isn't obligatory - you can sit outside instead. Napping won't help you at all, and I don't know where you've read anyone suggesting this. Do you even know what a trance is? The word is used because it denotes a state of deep physical and mental relaxation, to the point of bordering sleep, but not sleeping. Where did you get that 4 hour thing? Nobody said anything even remotely close to that. Yeah it doesn't sound like meditation... Because you've made all that up

This is highly disrespectful and inappropriate. Not to us, but to Jim, as these are his private lessons. While I will agree that this is the correct training, as opposed to everything you've wrote in this thread, it's not right to post the lessons Jim shared in private with his students, even though his dead. You know, there is a reason he didn't openly share this on the net. You are no better than Sifu ReL. If I had any amount of respect towards you, not as a practitioner, but as a person, that's now gone.

No, by no means should anyone attempt to create their own system. Either it wouldn't be functional, and would just be a complete waste of time, or at worst death could occur. People died before, attempting to make a system. I'm saying that if fate or karma is involved, new doors may open up for a sincere practicioner, that weren't there before. Level 1 is meditation. It really isn't as dangerous as you make it out to be.

I strongly believe that spiritual practice like this shouldn't be charged for. I think Ken is of the similar opinion.

Very obviously he isn't taking calls, otherwise his phone line would probably be flooded, lol. I know (or at least I presume) it's not his real name, after all, which Chinese, living on Java would name their child John? However, as he have no other way of refering to him, that's the best pseudonym to use. But again you go with this "born in the MoPai clan". Kosta wasn't "born into the clan". Jim wasn't "born into the clan". Their students weren't "born into the clan". Neither Liao nor John Chang were "born into the clan". You keep going on and on with this without actually saying what exactly you are refering to. Is a school of Nei Gong considered a clan to you? That's like saying "shotokan karate is a clan, you need to be born into it to train". Beside that, all members of clans in China and ancient China bore the same surname. Liao's surname was Liao, and the surnames of both previous masters were also different (Pai and May), and we can asume John Chang's surname is also different. His student's surnames were also different. If people were "born into the clan" they surely wouldn't bear so many different surnames. So what you say makes no sense at all.

... Pretty much. Without John Chang's help there is no certainty of progressing, that's true. However, that should not discourage people who are interested from training and doing the Level 1 technique that we do know. One has to perform and complete this anyhow, before moving onto next levels of training, and it's best to focus on what we have now. Who knows, if there is fate or karma involved, a seeker might be able to progress. But not until they complete the fundamentals, which is the Level 1 meditation technique.

... Is your head OK? I don't care where this thread is. I shared my opinion on the matter. To me, it seems as though you are the one trolling this whole thread, it seems as though you make things up as you go. But I may be just judging prematurely.

There are people who can enter these deep delta brainwave states. The metabolism slows down while there, and they can apparently stay like that for days or even weeks. This was also reported by some yogis. So by master meditation you can probably stay in for quite a while.

I apologize, but at this time I do not posses a Buddha mind, therefore I am still subject to assuming prematurely. You speak a lot about magick and therefore, I assumed it's part of your practice. Am I wrong? It seems strange that you say you don't do labels, given that you used them a lot in this discussion. John Chang is a necromancer, sorcerer, magickian... You know what I mean. But that isn't really important right now. I *KNOW* he named the book The Magus of Java. I'm not sure if you are the one reading what I said though. I said that even if he named the book, it doesn't necessarily make John Chang a "magus". And excuse me - parroting? I'm not sure if I should take that as an insult or not. I merely stated my opinion, and even if it's similar to the opinion of anyone else, what's wrong with that? Am I prohibited from holding an opinion that is contrary to yours or something? Packed with info? What info? You've basically completely made up everything you wrote here. I could go more in depth on this with a later comment. Then I stated my opinion, and because it's contrary to yours you call that "degrading"? Please be serious. "Empty void known as western mopie"? Given everything you said on here, that's a bold statement. Some people are interested in Mo Pai practice, and because they think that what you said here is made up and lacks any sense, you proceed to call it "empty void". Sure thing. Think what you want. And because I don't necessarily agree with a title of a book doesn't mean I can't agree with it's content. Where does your logic come from, I'm starting to wonder. Why would I need to show you acupuncture charts? It's enough to know how training goes, you don't need to know the full meridian system to meditate. And again, given that we are talking about Mo Pai, if John Chang says something, and you say something contrary, than his opinion automatically has more credibility than yours. This is because you have no expertise on the subject. If you were a Mo Pai master at around John Chang's level, then yes, your opinion would matter. But you aren't. This should be simple to comprehend. You can't be an expert piano player and claim expertise in advanced organic chemistry, if you haven't ever studied the subject. This thread isn't "Info packed". At most, it's packed with assumptions and rather out-of-place theories and hypotheses. So no seeker who would be lead here would learn much. They'd have much better chances at the "VULGAR OBSCENE forum"... nothing personal. No offense to anyone meant, I didn't come to this discussion to insult anyone. I would gain nothing from that.

... Your words are shockingly ignorant. I came to this discussion and shared my opinion. Dawei pointed out that I should discuss and elaborate it. So I did. Why should my opinion matter any less than yours? Because you "have experience"? You say you speak from experience. You say that I think anyone who speaks in an "authoritative manner" is placing themselves on John Chang's level. You clearly don't understand what I've said. Even if you have experience, it's very clear you have no interest in Mo Pai, and that you don't practice it. That's cool, nothing wrong with that. However, you can't speak from experience about Mo Pai matters. That's like I would say "Hey, I'm very experienced in math, so I know you've misinterpreted your microbiology professor. Or, he is completely wrong". You see, you can't bring experience from your own system into a whole other system. This should be obvious, why isn't it? Same with "speaking in an authoritative manner". SOTG can't speak in authoritative manner, because he practices something different. And what "bad English translation" exactly? Both Kosta and Jim were students of John Chang for about 10 years or more. Do you think they would "misunderstand" or "misinterpret" anything in that time? You must be kidding. Perhaps it's you who are sour, because what was taught was contrary to what you believe? That's OK, nothing wrong with that, believe what suits you, practice what suits you.

You obviously take yourself as a "magickian" and your practice (or at least some of it) as "magick". By comparing the "Magus" in the title with "magickian" it seems you are implying that your practice is the same as that of John Chang. But then you go about denying what was taught to Kosta and Jim, and comparing Mo Pai to some unrelated matters. John Chang can't really be regarded as a "magickian" or a "magus", if we take into account the meaning of those words. He is a Nei Gong and Kung Fu master. Now, let's take the definition of the word "magus", in this case (for simplicity's sake) from Wikipedia: Does this sound like John Chang to you? In fact, even as the word is used these days, it still doesn't really describe what John Chang does and what he teaches. Neither "Magickian" nor "Magus". Necromancy involves conjuring spirits and using them for divination, as a destructive tool, or for manipulating the spirit. John Chang doesn't do that. Otherwise, Kosta or Jim would mention it for sure. Conjuring is the act of calling up a spirit with an invocation or a spell. John Chang doesn't do that. He makes the appropriate field of Yin Qi, where they can manifest. Otherwise, Kosta or Jim would, again, mention it for sure. Sorcery involves invocation, spell-casting and (sometimes elaborate) rituals. John Chang doesn't do that. The Fu his master used was indeed a Taoist talisman... but that does not necessarily denote him or John Chang as a "sorcerer", as the Fu was merely used to make sure John Chang would keep his word. If there was sorcery involved, yet again, Kosta or Jim would surely mention it. Regarding comparing yourself to John Chang, I've already explained above, why your words imply that. Perhaps it would be more accurate to say you compare your knowledge to his. You'd still be wrong, as I have pointed out. Regarding implying that you know more than John Chang... I know that people on here aren't too fond of quoting The Magus of Java, but bear with me on this one. Alright. Yin Qi comes through Hui Yin, and is gathered there. Once Yang Qi is sent there, it collects as much Yin Qi as there is Yang Qi. That automatically means there has to be Yin Qi present and collected there. And here is what you said: With the amount of certainty you have, you haven't left any room for chance or options. You completely asserted "This is the correct way, the only true way, there is no storing Yin and the perineum, and Qi cannot be confined to the Dan Tian". This, however, isn't what Jim and Kosta were taught, but is the exact opposite of it. However, as you present it, your words imply that even though that wasn't what John Chang taught Kosta and Jim, your opinion is still correct. This is what I meant that you imply you know more than John Chang. You make a discussion on Mo Pai, bring up random stuff, speak oppositely to what was taught, and yet retain an air of complete certainty, that your opinion is infallible in this matter. You are of the same views and support their opinion, therefore - it is your opinion as well.

Dismiss it as you wish and laugh as you like. What does that prove? May I ask, what bad translation of broken English are you implying?