LaoZiDao

I believe that video is a fake, and even if it does happen to be real...its nothing to do with Dao or Neidan, actually anti-dao...wasting yuanqi etc. And the video clearly says Qigong, which is not neidan! You have refuted no one.

Opendao has said many many times, I have seen... and it should be clear. Meditation and related / similar practices are not Neidan methods, never have been and never will be. Neidan methods are never discussed in books, never have been and never will be, only results. If any Student of a Neidan Master is caught writing down methods, these papers will be destroyed! It is how it always has been. When someone translates a Daoist scripture and they end up with words such as "quite sitting" or "quiting the mind" etc they would assume, Ah! that must mean meditation... because that is all people know..that is all they can relate to. That is why ordinary people cannot read scriptures without a teacher, because they just do not know, they can not understand as they cannot relate. They do not understnad Ming / Yuanqi, not without a teacher and transmission. These are results of Neidan, not methods. Eg After Neidan pracice, your mind will be quite. Thats a result, not a method...its nothing about the actual method, but more details for students who have a teacher, so they can get a deeper understanding. It is easy to mistranslate Chinese to English, there are many assumptions that can be made. If you believe so strongly that meditation is Neidan, then please show me any Masters who claim they are Neidan Master through using meditation methods. It is easy to tell their achievements. Belief does not get you results by the way. "If it is getting critical acclaim and being promoted heavily, you know what time it is. It may contain some truths, but they will be floating in a sea of perversions." Meditation and Yoga is the popular thing to do, it is heavily promoted, why do you think it can yeild any results? why do you assosiate yourself with that? All modern authors of such books all age and die like normal people... why do you want to folow them? "sitting meditation is said by Lu Dongbin to be the method of purifying the mind" Show the origional scripture in Chinese where this has been said, its a misintepretation.

Your teacher is not teaching you anything about Neidan because judging by your description he knows nothing about Neidan. I would say he read some books and that is about it.

"After that, both looked into thoroughly and understood, he wrote the famous work "Book of Understanding Life" 慧命经 and "Confirmatory Teachings of Golden Immortals 金仙证论 (jin from Huayanjin and indestructible body jingan indicate the level of shenxian). The books of School fully include the works of Wu Chung-Xu and Liu Hua-yang, in which are written the most important works of the Northern school of alchemy (the dual perfection of nature and destiny), Southern, Eastern and Western schools of alchemy, as well as school of Zhang Xanfeng and Middle School."

"In the methods of the School WuLiu is not only collected all the best from many schools of Taoism, but it also includes the doctrines of Buddhism and Confucianism. The Head of The School Wu Chung-Xu has explained in detail the general principles of different teachings in his book "Common Teachings of Immortals and Buddhas", the truth of the 3 teachings returning to their unity". Methods of WuLiuPai School took the major Buddhist works such as 金刚经, 楞 严 经, 华严经 and others, combined them with the works of perfect people in each school of Taoism, fused it into a single system, created the original School Dragon gate Teaching of Perfect Truth of Taoism. So the WuLiuPai School does not fully belong to Dragon Gates school now. Chan guru Liu Hua-yang first was a Buddhist monk, after that he rejected the monastic life and started to follow the teachings of the Tao, he underwent a ritual of initiation into students in the School of the true man Wu Chung-Xu, having received his instructions and made practical and theoretical investigations and testified the identity of the methods of early Buddhism and the methods of heaven small circle in Taoism." From the "unofficial" website.

Houhou would be 'Phases of Fire'. In an ideal world all people should follow Dao, but it is not going to happen and has not happened for thousands of years. Out of 1000 people who try to achieve Dao, 1000 will fail. No society can be educated about Dao, Master transmit to Student...person to person... not Master transmit to society.

I look forward to the translations!

Great. Dao rain Tao..if I may...there should be no posture, Yang requires movements. Yuanqi cannot be moved or felt by consciousness, imagination or visulizations. These are all incorrect and not true Daoist methods. As far as I know JIUYANGSHENGONG is only the beginning method to clear channels etc. Its not the main neidan work. There is a study group from Dao De Center Russia teaching Yu Xian Pai (Dao De Center Russia is Wu Lui Pai's home as well) in Canada. Www.northerndao.org/neidan

www.laoziacademy.com Quanzhen Neidan school.

What practices do you do? Still sitting?

"Have a valid lineage" - you are smart here, most people don't look for such things, it is the most important thing. You could start with this tread to find out a little bit about Neidan. http://thetaobums.com/topic/32430-neidan-vs-qigong/?hl=opendao#entry492987 But you will not find much on this site. A headsup, 99.99999999999% of schools and teachers are either teaching New Age meditation (Mantak Chia, Eva Wong, Zhen Dao Pai etc) rubbish, or Qigong.. which is nothing to do with Alchemy and achieveing Immortality.. but most state it is.

Can you (and anyone else) explain their understanding of what Dao Yin is?

It's a fair statement, as I clicked "post" I had a feeling this would come back to bite me

Man, you offer nothing to the thread with such posts

Its simple to see why, because "Mind work and meditation", "Qigong" etc is not Neidan, and yes I notice the Zhen Dao Pai site does mention that Qigong is used for practitioner's in inital stages, and then moves to "Inner Alchemy".. which sounds great BUT their "Inner Alchemy" method is Dazuo (打坐) ...Dazuo is NOT alchemy! The difference between true alchemy is the difference between Post-natal (Houtian) and Pre-natal work (Xiantian). Dazuo is a still sitting practice which is Xing in nature and working with Post-natal energies. Stillness is Yin, still sitting gives rise to Yin (cultivation of Gui Xian AKA Ghost). Another problem is the depletion Yuan Jing. Also Heart Fire rises to the brain and casues maddess and sickness (which is one kind of entering maddness and roving fire), this is very common in amoung Buddhist monks etc. There is also proof in this thread about the dangers of working with Xing. Refer to what TaoBum member Tarmander said about his experiences in this thread. The articles written on Zhen Dao Pai's website sound beautiful, but unfortunatly there is many problems with the theory's. Also they are not the words of a Neidan Master with a proper linage. "Remember: the sitting gives rise to yin, and yin leads to the death." - Teacher of Single Yang Refer to these articles from The Teacher of Single Yang below: Problems with Practising Xing methods: Zhenchangzi asked: I ask Teacher to explain the main problems in the practice of Xing The Teacher of Single Yang said: The most basic problem of the practice of xing - is the impossibility of a chieving perfection before consolidation (fusion) of xing and ming, the impossibility of completion of ming using xing, the impossibility to achieve the ability of stopping leakage of (jing). People who practice the methods of xing will inevitably lose yuanjing during the perfection process; if it is proceeded, the body will wither and become exhausted, the face turn yellow and will look tired, and senile infirmity will appear. The ignoramI often believe that this state is "melting the primordial qi and transforming it into shen" and "melting shen TO return into the emptiness." Such delusions occur very often. (Some qigong teachers have great powers. Of diagnosis and treatment of diseases , but their bodies are withered, that indicates of too much using of xing and as a consequence - great damage to the spirit Shen). Although during the practice of xing some unusual abilities may indeed appear, but the excessive using of the thought cause a lot of deviations. In some people this causes the “roving fire and falling into madness”. Therefore, those who do the practice with xing for a long time, should change their practice, focusing on the practice of ming and only then it will be possible to avoid the dangers. This is exactly what in the Taoist alchemy is called "perfecting of xing without perfecting of ming – Is the first disease of perfection." Problems with Dazuo Meditation Most modern methods of practice rely on a meditation as a method of "enlightenment". The following text is an excerpt about meditation from the book of the Teacher of Single Yang. "In the world there is a kind of method of practicing «alchemy» in the form of sitting silently, muttering the spells or prayers or their own various practices of sitting. Practitioners of them completely don’t understand that it is absolutely useless and does not lead to any result. This sitting (meditation) is called «枯禪» - a withering contemplation, withered Chan. In the Taoism is often said that "the movement causes Yang" and "the immobility causes Yin", "pure Yang is a Xian (immortal)", "pure Yin is a Gui (a devil, a ghost).” If you sit in Dazuo (a sitting practice in the lotus or a cross-legged practice, a meditation), it is a false calmness, “Yin is caused” by the continuation of this process, and the longer the sitting will last, the paler and the flabbier the face will become and the more worse the health and condition of body will be. Then the Yang jing cannot be retained in the body and will be scattered outside. The seeker of the spiritual practice! First think about an amount of the jing you have, so you're not afraid to exhaust it by sitting, to die even without knowing that it will happen from your practice, unknowingly destroy your soul by an unreasonable predilection of a profane teaching? If this happens, it will be truly sad! Our ancient school of Taoist alchemy of Wu Chung-xu and Liu Hua-yang categorically forbids students to practice the sitting dazuo (meditation) at the early stages of practice; those who talk about the sitting dazuo and mystifies the people's, is better for these people to go faster to practice dazuo themselves! The true alchemy does not include it. Because the dazuo can not, principle, produce any results, and it is used only as a secondary work and only at the final stages of practice. The sitting datzuo can only be used for recuperation but never as the main method. (As a medicinal method the sitting can be used for those who have problems with hypotension of the heart and hyperemia, but not too long sitting). I have a personal disciple, who has been practicing the long sittings of schools Chan and Mizun. He was very persistent and hard worked and brought himself to almost absolute exhaustion of jing. His face blackened, his ears were covered with the dry crust, and then the sperm has started to leak out of his body. After each sitting an abundant leakage of sperm begun from his body and the Ming in his body was rapidly emptying. Only by intensive practice of our School of Taoist alchemy he succeeded in avoiding the death. Therefore, the true alchemy school does not teach the sitting dazuo, the followers of Wu Chung-xu and Liu Hua-yang do not practice it. "Xing is a Yin part, then Ming is a Yang part. The YIN spirit (i.e. Xing) is inert and has no energy, and therefore he can’t rise to higher worlds. He needs energy similarly to a rocket needing fuel for the takeoff. Using only the meditation and any methods tied to Xing only changes the Yin'S characteristics, but makes no qualitative change. The ancient Taoist tradition (and with it those that I have already mentioned) uses the energy of Ming for fusion with Xing.Thus it turns these two into a Yang Spirit , also called a Tao fetus, who has the real potential and can move to higher worlds. So it is the Fusion of the energy Ming with the soul Xing that is the essence of alchemy." - Dmitry A. Artemyev

Zhen Dao Pai is a known fake school founded by Vitalii.

Wu Jen Ming, the place of practice does not matter. There is no need for cultivating in such places. What's important is having correct method and being persistent to do it daily, as gradually retreat from the social world. But even then this is not required. You can still be a successful business man with a family and achieve Dao, though you must have no attachment / desire for social world. It's simple but hard to understand, and also hard to describe without giving people the wrong idea

"The only sad thing is that such methods may become even more rare as the time passes on because the interest in cultivation is diminishing as time goes on. " If you have fate to find it, you will. You can find a teacher in the most unexpected places

Yes they are all Xing practices. Yes Opendao knows Ming methods under his School Dao De - Ming methods cannot be found in books - If there is use of visualization, meditation, stopping thoughts, stopping breath, controlling breath, sitting this is all Illusionary methods and will not achieve any result. It will drain Jing and make you sick (as you mention in your post). - Ming is nothing about what you guessed it was. I don't want to say it is secret, but it is protected for good reasons. Also meat is required for practice until a practitioner is a much higher level. I also have Ming methods. I would start with reading their website, read all the articles! http://www.all-dao.com

I would not bother with going to Wudang... you wont get authentic Neidan teachings.

Thank you for clearing that up, I thought it may have been a mistake as I had never heard such thing before

Hi I'm a Neidan practitioner from Australia joining the forums at last.

Wudang? What's this even related to. Also blind belief is not a part if Daoism. Alchemy is accepted by its serious practitioners that the methods and practices of Neidan were empirically validated by previous masters. For this reason, the teachers role is not to prove, but rather to transmit. It is the students responsibility to validate the training for himself. That is, you are not required to believe it to be true, but to practice the methods and experience them for yourself. Neither belief nor proof is required, only realization. There are levels of understanding which are based upon the students commitment/success in practice. All a teacher can do is teach. You have to do your own practice. Either way, your previous comment shows you have no interest and that is fine, that is the path you are ready for, so be it.

What you just said above does not actaully make any sense. At a high level of doing such practice all you will achieve is becoming a ghost (cultivating Yin Shen), no different to that of a what happens when a person dies. Dao is not about cultivating Yin, this is false methods of illusions and results in death. It's actaully not much difference from taking hallucinogenic drugs and travling in your fantacy's (which is also Yin Shen). Any ordinary person has Yin Shen, it is nothing special. True Daoist Alchemy does not include Dazuo (meditation). Note: "The sitting datzuo can only be used for recuperation but never as the main method. (As a medicinal method the sitting can be used for those who have problems with hypotension of the heart and hyperemia, but not too long sitting)." - Teacher of Single Yang I know you have seen other posts recently mentioning the diference between Xing and Ming practice, I guess it flew over your head and you did not understand it at all.

cultivating the mind with meditation is everything that people here should NOT be talking about