LaoZiDao

It is possible, but don't take all he said as fact. Ming (Yuanqi) methods are not in books and are not public. There are a few threads about it here. Have a read.

Yin Shen travel stories at most. Still not Neidan.

Has no relation to Neidan, what's your point? Postnatal arts.

You use so many different terms mixed and mashed together. Maybe I am not well learned like you in understanding English attempts at translating Neidan terms. What you really mean when you say "the fluids" and "Qi"? These could mean completely different things. Then ull use Yuan Jing, vitality etc...what's what? I know the Chinese names and meanings very well, but do not know these terms your using very well, care to clarify? "The fluids", from you I'd take as Houtin Jing(post natal), which which changes back to Qi?, houtian or xiantian? :\ anyway some huge gaps in what your saying here in any case.. BTW applying what a Qigong Master said does not make it automatically correct or applicable to Neidan. 2 completely different things.

As said before, the translator of TY had died and achieved nothing, you can get to here as well if you follow his book...or any book for that matter. Even if it were a true book of Neidan containing many "secrets" you'd still end up with nothing without a True Teacher (aka a Zhen Ren) to teach you. It is so easy to feel all these post natal effects and take them as true alchemy. You could just as easily make up your own creative "methods" and get similar feelings and call it as "alchemy". No need to even talk about Zhaobichen's achievements (though its not much better then Luk's) as your not even reading the Chinese version.

You could put it like that, but to be specific, Dixian is one of the stages. You cannot become Shenxian without first achieving Dixian. And of course, cannot achieve Dixian without first achieving Renxian.

" Were these practices used by Daoists for health purposes or for spiritual purposes or both?" Neidan is the origin (in Chinese Daoist tradition, other cultures have had their own similar things) everything else is a watered down version of the original. Like a tree, the core is Neidan, the leaves and branches are things like MA, Qigong etc. In true Daoist tradition, there is no seperation between health and spirituality. Good health, body condition, and never getting sick is one of the first achievements in Neidan. Martial Arts, Calligraphy, natural intelligence is also developed naturally and easily as body condition is soft, flexible, healthy, Yuanqi is rich etc.

"'When the generative force is about to flow out, if the mortal gate (sheng szu ch'ia at the root of the penis) is not blocked (by a finger pressed on it) it will leave by that gate, turn liquid, become the generative fluid which will be discharged. This generative force will become semen if it flows out in the worldly way but will change into vitality if it is turned back (and sublimated in the microcosmic orbit).'" p. 8". "The book" said it, maybe you should get another book. Zhongliquan mentions about this "method" of retracting the tortoise as being one of the many minor and inconsistent methods (aka a false method). As explained in a previous post I saw, this is not Yuanjing leaking from your penis, and doing this will harm you, its forcefully stopping the leak of postnatal Jing. Blocking from coming out it does not turn it back to Yuanjing. Good way to cause prostate problems though. If your going to leak, that's it, bad luck..natural process is happening, like an ordinary human.

"physical loss or drainage is the main way the energy is lost" Okay, and even you stop having sex. You will still have nocturnal emmisions, and still spending Yuanjing in daily life. Its not RESTORED from celibacy, it is ONE way wastage can be minimized (as said before in a previous posts, with extra details).

Where did you learn this

The fact that you have low energy and feeling down and "stuck" is all due to YOUR BODY CONDITION. Lets not look at external factors and point the finger, your internal condition is what is responsible for any external troubles you are having. It starts with having a healthy body, rich Jing Qi Shen, and being well nourished. You should try and read about Dr Weston A Price and nutrition, one of the few good doctors in our history. You are all over the place and making things difficult for yourself with your wild theories. For me this is a pretty simple case of nutrition. Kinda common.

Is not the best advice.

Craving for foods like this is a sure sign of nutritional deficiency's. You are craving meat.. this tells a lot. Your lungs are weak, this also tells a lot. Lungs are element metal, minerals are metal..a sign of weak lungs in TCM is weakness of breath, paleness etc (I have not seen you so I cannot say). From a western perspective IMO sounds like it is iron deficiency. Also now you say you have low energy - also typical iron deficiency symptoms.

Also drink Chenpi (mandarin peel tea) after meals. Just a few cups worth.

From your description, you are low on iron and blood oxygen levels are low. No, not a pure TCM "perspective" but giving you a realistic actionable perspective that you should understand. Sounds like your lungs are weak, in turn kidneys are suffering. Metal (lungs) generates water (kidneys). You need to eat some beef, try at least 3 times a week, try a good Vietnamese Pho Noodle Soup, these are good because of the iron mineral rich soup, and (lamb is not good enough, must be beef) smaller easy to digest pieces of meat. They usually come with mung bean sprouts and lemon which help to balance the fire from the rich minerals from the beef etc. You will also get a good effect from eating a few chestnuts and fresh dates, don't over do this as its quite fiery, just a moderate amount. You should also take a good quality red wine, just shot (or 1 glass at most) after dinner, before bed (not every night, don't over do it). Don't go to bed late either.. 10-11pm max. P.S Blood test are not to most accurate thing either. I would suggest that you: Eat beef (preferable in soups) x3 a week. Supplement 100mg of magnesium per day as its not in the soils. Supplement 50mg of zinc its required as its not in the soils. There are some details about supplementing which you can ask me in a PM if you want to know, such as when to take, what brands (as some brands don't absorb at all, and some are just plain low quality). I would also recommend you supplement iron, but only do this for a couple weeks to get the ball rolling.

Absolutely, and anyone able to tame the white tiger is not doing it with mantras and visualisations Is there a chance you are you able to expand on the 'other reasons'? Maybe I can learn something here.

Um I have practised everyday for 4 years straight. At lest 1 hour minimum, on average 2-3 hours per day.

Xing = Yuan Shen Ming = Yuanjingqi There is only really 2, can be called the 2 qi 二炁 or 2 fires. Once Yuanshen (nothing to do with mind) joins with Yuanqi that is the embyro of elixir created. Ie Dixian 地仙. That is the meaning of joining Xing and Ming. To join yuanshen and yuanqi.

There is a lot of good classics, maybe try later texts from Liuyiming

A bunch of claims..right, its a common topic in Neidan books if you have ever read any. Here you are asking about difference between post and pre natal Jingqishen, though in the quote you put he is describing common misunderstandings of scriptures. He said "preserving the heart mind (性)" is a result of Neidan practice. "preserving the heart mind" is not a practice in Neidan (ie meditation). Its a result. Does this make sense? All Neidan texts talk about results, not methods. Its very common to see people understanding results as methods from relying on books and having no true Zhenren as a teacher. As for jingqishen question, opendao gave an explanation of what post natal jingqishen is, see below. This is all related to the difference between Qigong and Neidan. Houtian and Xiantian, have you seen these before? Many Neidan texts talk about them, its a crucial thing to understand if you seek genuine neidan. "Post-Heaven Jing = sexual Jing-essense Post-Heaven Qi = energy we get from breath and food Post-Heaven Shen = mind, consciousness, sub-consciousness Different Qigong sets use mind, imagination, positions, movements, breathing, to follow normal (for this world) Hou Tian process that make post-Heaven Jing, Qi, Shen healthy and powerful, but exhaust Pre-Heaven treasures." Digest this then we can talk more on prenatal. Also, loose the egotistical attitude, its doing you and no one else any favours.

That is touched on in the link I gave you by opendao. No need to repeat it, read it tnere.

This is why I dont come here often, people's attitude's. It has been answered in the thread I provided a link for. This has been discussed many times by myself and a few others. You have put me in no "spot", if you want the information it is there, if you have further questions about prenatal and postnatal jingqishen, then you can ask. Though I will probably not answer you after your smartass remarks, so you will have to rely on the OP to reply to you.

www.thetaobums.com/topic/32430-neidan-vs-qigong/

"dont separate neidan from qigong too much" Why? There is definite separation between Neidan (Xiantian - pre natal) and Qigong (Houtian - post natal). Not too much? How do you not separate post and pre natal too much? There are scientific differences.

It is not, but modern day it is mistaken as religion.