Prince...

Last week, I had a somewhat similar experience. I had slowly stopped all of my practices, and realized that I needed to step up my game with the recent string of things that have been happening to me (getting accepted to Seminary, getting my G.I. Bill claim processed in 3 weeks when it was supposed to take 3 months) Anyway, I only meditate for 15 minutes a day just before I say my prayers and go to bed. I kept having that feeling like someone or something was in my room-- I've been having that feeling on and off for the past few months-- but everytime I would start to fall asleep, I could feel something tapping me on the arm or on my back. Eventually I fell asleep. About 8 years ago when I first considered going into the ministry, my mom claims I came under spiritual attack. Something was trying to strangle me. I couldn't move. I tried to yell, but I was choking.

Zeitgeist Refuted http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=7572663630528394775

Christianity says Jesus is the begotten son of God. Christianity says we are all children of God. This is the subject of a sermon that I am giving in June. Romans 8:14 "For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, these are sons [and daughters ] of God."

Sweet, I was just about to ask if you've read this...I am reading this book right now. I'll have to check out the Jesus Sutras this summer. I have a few books I really need to knock out this month to prepare to give my first sermon in June. What I liked about the Jenkins' book is he mentions more than once that missionaries in the Church of the East were scholars who meditated and performed miracles, which is why they were successful at spreading Christianity, for a time. It makes you wonder what the Catholic Church was doing different.

Thanks for your compliment, but this makes me sad that my community is failing people everyday.

I saw it awhile back...as a Christian I was not upset with Maher. I felt a little sorry for him. I felt really bad for some of the people he interviews. The black preacher in the beginning is a total jackass. I have met many truckers similiar to the guys in the truckstop church who are very strong in their belief, but not very intelligent. Honestly, if Maher approached me for one of his interviews for this film, I hope that I would have given him the same response Jesus gave when he was mocked at his trial. "It is as you say," and left it at that...there is no point in making an ass out of myself trying to convince Maher of a truth as revealed to me...keyword "as revealed to me," he might have a different one, and that's allright with me.

I never responded to this and not sure how I managed to dig this up...but I used to take my Wing Chun classes at one of the top Wushu & Performance Tai Chi schools in Southern California. I know Wushu is flowery, but I liked the few classes that I took. Also, they do teach combat applications and do some sanshou. They say if you don't know how to properly apply the moves, then the choreography won't be believable in competitions. I'm not sure what qualifies as being genetically gifted, but one of the senior students at my old school began Wushu at 38. He is around 43 now and has placed in competitions. I've seen him do backflips and splits across the studio. As for me, I could dunk a basketball at 15 when I was 5-5. I'm almost 30 and don't have those kind of hops, but I can still jump pretty high. I'm not interested in fighting that much, I just like something that looks cool and gives a good workout.

Wow, you really resurrected a long buried post. I'm not sure if most of the people on page 1 are around anymore. I disagree with a lot of what was mentioned. First I will point out that originally Christianity was called "The Way." Does that make Jesus a follower of the The Way? Yes and no. Jesus prayed, meditated, studied, taught, and healed. Whatever you choose to call this is what it is. Jesus was not involved in any sort of nationalistic movement. Jesus said repeatedly that his kingdom is not of this world. Had Jesus had something against Romans, he would not have healed the son of a high ranking Roman soldier. Had Jesus had any desires of seeing an independent Israel, he would not have repeatedly called out high ranking rabbis of the Sanhedrin. I am currently studying a school of Esoteric Christianity. I will say that there is discussion of the dantiens, we call them the sacred discs. It is heavily based in meditation and study of the scriptures. We are concerned with Truth and we say there are many gardens that yield good fruit. We tend the garden that Jesus left us. Oranges are good, watermelons are good, and so are apples. If the Suffis wish to grow apples, good. If the Taoists want to grow oranges, good. We will tend to our watermelon patch, because this is what Jesus asked us to do, and we like it.

Now this sounds awesome! I'll have to look into that sometime in the future when I have a partner. As for the whole semen retention thing, I have no idea what that is. I've heard about it here, I always thought it was just not wacking off excessively...well, at all. Women have always been my stumbling block when it comes to my spiritual practice, so I'm practicing retention right now...hahaha...it didn't kill me when I was 15 and didn't know the lovely feeling of a lady, it won't kill me at 30!

This raises an interesting point...anyone have any experiences with any teachers on this list? (besides Mantak Chia) I know one of them, but I am not his student and have never studied with him...just wanted to make that clarification. http://www.daoistcenter.org/teachers.pdf Anyway, if living the life as a hermit is what you feel is your calling, I say go for it, see if it works for you. I practice a form of Christian cultivation. It does not make much sense to me right now because all of the books are pretty heavy, but it's interesting to get a new spin on stuff I've studied in the Gospels. I wanted to live a life that allowed me to practice some type of cultivation-- I guess I'm lucky to live in a place that considers itself a Christian nation in that it allows me to fly both above and below the radar. I am going to Seminary to become a Pastor. My school of cultivation does not advocate monastic life or living as a hermit. Actually, our goal is to attain siddhis to benefit humanity. I guess it would be like a buddhist who's goal is to become a bodhisattva. Of course the initial goal is to understand the ego, so that one does not misuse anything gained through their practices. For me, it works. I enjoy having conversations about spiritual things. I grew up in the Church, but I don't tell people they will go to Hell outside of the Church. Yes, there are things I have to adhere to...dogmas, rules, and policies passed down from my denominational affiliation, but what is important to me is that people seek something more fulfilling than just pleasing the base desires. So this is my story, I guess...sorry for messing up your thread! But yes, I want to spend the rest of my life meditating and cultivating. For me, the way to accomplish this is to become a minister. I get to help people, I get to console people in need of a friend, and I get to work with young people--all things I enjoy. I get to teach, although I don't claim to know much. I get to study. I meditate, I do exercises that are similiar to qigong--well it's breathing exercises, so I guess it is qigong! I'm not currently studying martial arts, but I will resume when I finish school. What is important is that you find the best way to accomplish this--some days people get on my nerves, other days I love having people around me. I'm no guru when it comes to meditation, but I think as you progress with your practice, you will come to have some compassion for those folks that annoy the hell out of you right now. Good luck with what you're trying to do!

I did 4 years in the Navy. It was an interesting time, I got to see the world and do some and see some things I may not have ever done/seen had I not joined. It wasn't all good, but it wasn't all bad. Had I not joined the Navy I never would have had the chance to study in one of the best wushu/performance tai chi schools in the country. I never would have studied Wingchun. I never would have learned about Qigong or met a student of a real Taoist Priest. I never would have read the Magus of Java...and I definitely would not be here on TB. I did study Taoism in my Asian Religions class in undergrad, but that was back in 2000. I purchased a copy of the Tao Te Ching, but back then it was just good bathroom reading material. Actually, it still is bathroom reading material, but I pay a little bit more attention to what I'm reading. I'm considering going back into the military, most likely in the Naval Reserves-- but I'll be going in as a chaplain. You know, study in my office, give advice to those seeking help or just wanting to vent, provide for people's spiritual needs.

I'm not being judgemental at all. That quote means "Fix yourself first before you try to fix someone else." I think it applies to more people than just me, so thanks for posting that. I don't feel attacked at all by your comment because it actually applies to what started this mess in the first place. Secondly I do have a brother. We are 8 1/2 years apart in age. When he was little and was about to mess up, I would tell him. What I've learned is that most of the time when I see him messing up, he's going to do it anyway. People are stubborn like that. I know I am and I'm not afraid to admit it. You know...that's part of that removing the plank from my own eye...funny how that works. Anyway, I've found it better to let my real brother take the fall. I'll chew his ass when he's down so he knows not to fall for the same thing twice. Messing up is a learning experience. It's better to fall and know why you fell, even though getting back up might be even more painful. That way you learn something. You can disagree if you want, but tell me how many times I've done that exact thing only to have my brother come back months later and say,"Bruh, you were right man, I don't know how I was so stupid!" Somewhere in Romans, Paul talks about Christians being offensive by eating "forbidden" meat around their Jewish Christian brothers. We're not talking about kosher foods, but like Paul says, if your actions are going to lead your brother to sin, it's best not to do them. But I didn't have to go to Paul for that...I thought we all learned that if you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all. That would apply to trying to offer criticism to a person you have never met, never studied with, and don't know anything about at all. So with that, I'm done with this thread.

Brown is Stinky are you serious? this guy hasn't said anything that I care to read or care to learn. I did think it was funny when he called me out about the whole dogma thing. Hey playboy, I'm training to become a minister, that's what people pay me to do...but oh yeah, you expect people to teach for a living and not expect any payment...which is just...well...teaching for nothing.

I liked this Santi...also, did you know the Aramaic term for GOD is Alaha or Elaha, which translates to Allah "The Diety"... sorry just my bible nerdiness starting to come out. Anyway, I see the beef is still going. I posted in the "don't thank people" thread a week ago, spent the weekend out of town at a seminary, and it's still going. *sheesh* Don't know about Dobles' secret club, but I know Santi has a wife, home & kids in beautiful Miami...is an accomplished martial artist, and has progressed down the spiritual path that many of the folks on TB walk. If things work out, I'll be a starving student at Seminary and I hope to have the same success that Santi already has. I can't hate on that and anybody that can...well...they're just a hater plain and simple. Oh yeah, Hey Mike, hadn't seen you post in awhile, but I haven't been on TB much lately! Technically you should be able to sit and have enough faith that a meal will manifest itself...but I always say God helps those who help themselves. A few weeks ago when I was last in the pulpit, I told people to stop praying for God to cure their high blood pressure or weight problems and get with people in the church who lead healthy lifestyles and exercise with them. It takes awhile before people have enough faith to materialize things using their Mind Vitality...haha, but I won't open that can of worms, cause I'm not anywhere near it either!

Wow... well, I may not have the ability to think and all, but at least I know how to thank people when they do something nice for me. I will admit that I did not take the time to read your response. I have better things to do than read an essay on something I don't want to know. You started the topic, man up and accept the criticism. I swear man, some of y'all need to stop sitting on your zafus and try living in the real world. If you're so worried about getting a big ego when people thank you, then go live an a cave or something. Don't be so worried about what other people do and how it will affect you. Here is a saying for you,"What other people eat doesn't make you shit." I'm in the process of becoming an ordained minister. Being thanked in public is a part of my life. It happens. It's up to me to decide if I'm going to let it affect my ego. Oh, I know I visited you everyday in the hospital when you were sick with cancer, no don't stand up in church and thank me when you give your testimony, though; thank me in private. I wouldn't want someone else to hear you were struggling that could be going through the same situation because that never happens.

Y'all can run with the bodhisattva thing if you want. I'm still not convinced. Go ahead and explain the Council of Nicea if you want, but don't assume that people outside of Christianity are the only ones who know anything about the history of the church. I don't mean to sound harsh, but I frequent a religion chat room and I always get some GED genius who saw the DaVinci code and wants to insult me with "You go to church and have faith in what you don't know, I do research!" Based on my understanding, a bodhisattva is one who puts off enlightenment to return for the benefit of others. Christ has not returned. Based on the teachings of a school of mysticism claiming to be descended from the Essenes, I can accept the idea of the bodhisattva. They claim that all of the companion-disciples became very powerful mystics who can return to our existence at will-- but Jesus was fully theosized, meaning he did not simply go to one of the heavens, he returned to the source. I won't attempt to explain this in Buddhist terms because I have a limited understanding of Buddhism. This is what I meant by letting Christians have Jesus. If I explain Shakyamuni in Christian terms, I do him a disservice. I just thought I would mention, if anyone liked The Magus of Java, you should read The Magus of Strovolos, about a Christian Mystic and healer known as Daskalos (The Teacher). He talks about everything I have said and the importance of not mixing ideas from different religions. There is much more I would like to say, but I am going to visit a seminary this weekend and I have not packed!

Matthew 6:3-4 When a servant serves his master faithfully and the master rewards the servant greatly; the servant does not duck his head and whisper his gratitude in secret. He shouts it for the world to know.

I am a Christian. I recall a thread from last summer about the Tao vs. God. There was a post that made me laugh saying "Well, the Judeo-Christian idea of God is like this... but Tao is like this..." and I'm saying,"Oh really?" in my head because the whole "but Tao is like this..." comment is the way I think of God. I read most of the posts here and I have to say one thing...Can us Christians have Jesus for who he is and not what everyone else wants him to be? Jesus is NOT a great mystic, a good teacher, a neigong master, or a bodhisattva. If Jesus were any of things HE WOULD HAVE SAID SO. When Jesus was asked by the Pharisees as to who he is, his response was "Eyeh asher eyeh, Beni Alaha." (I am that I am, the Son of God) Jesus, the man who lived, was crucified, resurrected and ascended, was a perfect manifestation of the Logos (The Word). He came as a God-Man to show that by cultivating the Holy Spirit which exists in all of us, we can share in his divinity as Man-gods. This is what he means by he is the way, the Truth, and the Life. These teachings were part of early Christianity and still exist today, but not as part of the mainstream Faith. In the Nestorian Church, monks who helped translate many Buddhist texts observed that their practices did not differ at all from Buddhist monks.

This is not clear to me at all. Last month, several people in my church wrote recommendation letters for me. If I am accepted to school, I plan to announce my acceptance and publicly thank everyone who "privately" wrote letters or prayed on my behalf. There are many ways to show gratitude to people. Personally, I think people do not say "thank you" enough, but that's my opinion, just like you have yours, which happens to not agree with my own.

I emailed him a few times last year. His wife wrote me back. She was very nice. One of his students told me about Qigong and suggested I read the Magus of Java as an intro to alchemy. Master Lew holds seminars around the country regularly, as well as a yearly retreat in Big Sur in the fall. If you're interested, you should check them out, but other than that, there is not too much info on the net about Master Lew.

The stuff Santiago is teaching looks really cool. I'd love to learn more about that stuff, but I think the distance class is on Sunday mornings when I'm on my way to church. If things work out, I may be moving to Florida come 2012...yeah, I'm not really expecting the world to end anytime soon. I expect you to be around to come kick it with me, Santi!

I see a number of people mention going to China in search of a teacher. I probably did not give a proper introduction, but I got out of the Navy after 4 years of service on a disability. I've been to Hong Kong, Malaysia, Japan, Korea... I remember one day a friend of mine was buying Viagra (hahaha) from a pharmacy in Hong Kong on Kowloon side. The pharmacist was telling me that he had been on a tank in Her Majesty's Army when Hong Kong was still under British rule and that he collects command ballcaps whenever Navy guys are in town on a port visit. We had a quick conversation and I mentioned to him that I love kungfu. He said "you should move to the mainland if you're serious about learning kungfu," we told him we would try to drop by with a ballcap from our ship and parted ways. Even though I did not get a teacher's name from him or anything, I'm sure if I was living in Hong Kong and seeking a teacher, someone would have eventually given me a name or a place. Maybe they would have been a bad teacher, didn't have the goods, or whatever, but you take what you can get until you find something better. Now it's not as hard to go to China as people make it out to be. There is a shortage of English teachers in China AND Indonesia. If you find the right program, they will pay for your apartment and travel over there as well as assisting you in getting the necessary visa and such. It does not take long to find the programs, I signed up for one just requesting additional information and they send me at least 1 e-mail a week asking when I can come out to South Carolina for an interview. Of course, I have my bachelor's,a little teaching experience, and naval experience in the pacific fleet. I am sure any person that is interested in the culture with a clean background and some level of intelligence should have no problem. I will add that the programs I looked at required at least an associate's degree. I'm not sure if this is helpful at all ( definately is not pertinent to the topic!) but I just wanted to point out that getting to China is really the easy part. Finding a teacher, well, as much as I hate to say it, is up to chance.

Thanks Santi, I hope one day when I get farther along to study with you at some point in the future. Also, I read The Magus of Strovolos who says alot of things that mirror what John Chang says in the Magus of Java. That teacher is a Cypriot healer practicing Christian Mysticism. He passed away in the '90s, but his school is open to all faiths, even though it is essentially Christian Mysticism. He talks about reincarnation, chakras, and all sorts of stuff, along with performing bonesetting, exorcisms, mind reading, and uhh...the out of body things ( i don't know the proper term). As for the comment about Jesus being an idiot...well, I am sure you are familiar with the telephone game. Things get lost over time...if the message of Christ does not resonate with you, then perhaps you march to the beat of a different drummer. Good luck falling in step with whatever beat it is that you choose.

pg 117 Magus of Java pg 123 Magus of Java pg 126 Magus of Java pg 13 Neikung the Secret Teachings of the Warrior Sages I wanted to share those quotes the next time a Magus of Java thread popped up...sorry I haven't really been lurking as of late. I can't say that I have seen this much on TB, but on other sites, I see people that get excited over their discovery of Mo-Pai and demand access to the teachings...because they are on some spiritual quest, they don't want to spend another lifetime here "wandering aimlessly" and John Chang is their salvation...their key to becoming enlightened. I read this book and I'll be honest (unlike the majority of the people that post about Mo-Pai)-- I just wanted to learn it to fight. I've been away from home in the military for the last 4 years. Kids are getting caught with guns in schools weekly. There are no less than 3 violent crimes reported on the news every morning here, and I bet you thought the only thing hot in Nashville was the country music! The world is not such a nice place and often times people don't play fair. For me, I realize that it's more important to find something that works for me. Kostas spends much of the second book finding evidence of The Thunder Path in other traditions. Personally, I would like to find Christian Neikung, if such a thing exists. I know this is Tao Bums, but there are some who follow Lao Tse, some follow Shakyamuni, there are a few Suffi Muslims, but I love Christ Jesus. I also love kungfu. If I never get good at kungfu, never develop any abilities that would even put me at level 1 of the Mo-Pai system, but I am able to love God and love my neighbor as my self--which is the ONLY doctrine Christians are supposed to follow-- well then I have accomplished something far greater.