Aeran

Exactly. And why must there be one "real" qi? Even individual systems almost all seem to have different varieties of qi which they work with (yin qi, yang qi, qi for the different elements, "true" qi, pre-heaven qi, post-heaven qi, etc etc etc), not to mention other energies (jing, shen, environmental energies, energies specific to entities or systems)... and that's just in Daoism, once you expand out to Hinduism, Buddhism, Sufism, Hermeticism, etc. you're getting into hundreds or thousands of different labels for classifications of subtle energies. The whole thing seems like semantics to me. What matters is that an energy achieves the effect it's supposed to and that the descriptions within a system are internally consistent. Of course if it doesn't or they aren't, that's another matter, but claiming only one energy is the "real" qi and that any energy which doesn't share it's exact properties is harmful seems silly at least and dogmatic at worst. IMO we, as a society, just don't have to tools to objectively quantify and compare these energies yet (otherwise they'd be studied in universities as much as they would in temples and mountain caves and - these days - seminars and internet forums) so there's no point in trying to apply the terminology from one system/lineage to a separate one. Better to just judge each on it's individual merits.

I know it isn't a Daoist text, but I've been reading the Bhagavad Gita lately and it seems to offer a lot of advice on the same problem - how to act in the world without attaching desire or aversion to the outcomes of your actions. Can't hurt to check it out at the least

- I'd be interested in a general overview of the system which Master Jiang teaches. What kind of practices does the training consist of? What are the internal processes by which these practices work? And what are the major goals of this system - healing seems like a major part of it, but I'd love to hear more about the spiritual component you mention briefly in your blog where discuss Shen cultivation (with the video of the Grandmaster doing massive mathematical calculations in his head). In the video you mention the concept of "becoming a Buddha" briefly, could you expand on that within the context of the teachings of Master Jiang's lineage? - Are you able to go into some detail about the similarities and the differences between the training and teachings of Wang Liping and those of Master Jiang? - I was fascinated by the video demonstration of Master Jiang's cupping, where he extracted the stagnant blood from the body and then compared it to the fresh blood. I've never seen any demonstration like it - are you able to explain how this process is achieved (I'm especially interested in the blood seeping out from the cupping site - does this happen as a result of the Chi work he does on the patient beforehand, or is it a result of the unique cupping device he uses, or some other mechanism?)? Have you undergone it yourself and what was the experience like/what effect did it have on you? - I remember reading somewhere that Jiang's treatment modality includes herbal prescriptions - I've recently developed a bit of an amateur interest in herbalism and would love to hear anything you can discuss about which herbs he uses, what preparation/activation processes are used, and again would love to hear about any of your own personal experiences in this regard. Thanks for taking the time to spread some knowledge

I was doing some random googling on another subject and came across this piece which seems very relevant to what's being discussed in this thread: http://www.psi-researchcentre.co.uk/article_5.htm

The attitude towards siddhis (which I would broadly define as preterhuman capabilities which allow an individual to perceive or interact with reality through metaphysical/spiritual mechanisms, as opposed to physical ones) in a lot of the spiritual community reminds me of the attitude towards sex in strict Abrahamic communities. A lot of people who become obsessed with the concept and develop an unhealthy obsession with it, and a lot of people who obviously have some kind of repression complex going on where they talk constantly and desperately about how much they don't want siddhis and how nobody else should want them and how dangerous they are etc etc. "The mystic doth protest too much..." I also think there's a "culture of silence" to an extent, where even in communities like this one where many members have experience with such capabilities to some extent or another, people downplay those experiences and refuse to talk about them. There are all sorts of reasons for this, and whether or not they're justified is debatable, but I think it's a debate worth having and that the whole this culture of downplaying or ignoring these phenomena only serves to misrepresent reality and to further foster unhealthy obsession in people newly introduced to spiritual work. Of course I have to admit to being something of a hypocrite in this regard, as there are plenty of times where I find myself intentionally not writing about certain events or experiences in communities like this one because for whatever reason it's not the done thing. It's certainly something I intend to do some introspection on, and I'd be interested in other people's thoughts on why this attitude exists. Personally I find it all rather frustrating. I think these phenomena should be treated as what they are - a completely natural, everyday part of reality and something that anyone who involves themselves in spiritual or metaphysical matters will encounter at some stage. Not played up as the be all and end all of spiritual practice, but also not written off as mere distractions or something which individuals should be scorned for showing an active interest in investigating. A balance needs to be struck, but it seems wherever you look the balance is flipped too far one way or the other, seesawing from individual to individual and community to community. If somebody wants to focus solely on higher states of consciousness and completely ignore siddhis, that should be their choice. If someone wants to focus all their effort on developing all sorts of cool siddhis at the expense of expanded consciousness, that should be their choice. If someone wants to land somewhere in the middle, that should be their choice. Why is eg. learning to more efficiently effect violence a more suitable past time for a spiritual practitioner than investigating the forces and laws which govern the metaphysical side of reality and cultivating the ability to work with them (either for the purpose of using them to help others, or to gain a greater understanding of reality, or just because that's how the person wants to spend their time)? I think that there is a lot we could learn, as individuals and as a society, if we were willing to systematically investigate these phenomena, instead of shrouding them in stigma and mystery or putting them on a pedestal. I find it kind of sad that there's more effort coming from the secular scientific community to understand things like telepathy or precognition, how they work, why they work, what role they have in the greater scheme of human development, than there is from the spiritual community, and I think the spiritual community should reach out and work with the scientific community in establishing a deeper understanding of reality (an understanding that could be essential to our survival as a species). I'm not saying that masters over the world should all feel obliged to operate as lab rats or put all of their knowledge onto paper for the world to experiment with, but I think now more than ever the world needs people who are willing to step up and say "yes, these things happen, I've experienced them, they're a perfectly normal part of reality because reality is a hell of a lot bigger than you think it is, come take a look, it's amazing," if we are to divert society from the trainwreck that materialism and reductionism have lead it into. As nice as it would be to believe otherwise, a lifetime of indoctrination into strict fundamentalism (either religious or atheistic) isn't going to be undone by philosophy. Most people don't feel the call to explore these matters themselves and wouldn't know where to start if they did, providing tangible evidence that we are more than machines of flesh and bone and that everything in the universe is part of an interconnected, greater whole would go a long way towards combating the violence, greed, short sightedness and self destruction which currently plague humanity. On the flip side, there have been sporadic attempts to make some kind of "science of spirituality" happen since the 19th century, and the fact that it hasn't and that the closest we have, parapsychology, is a fringe field largely ignored by society and the academic mainstream (except as a punchline), might be indicative of the fact that humanity isn't ready yet after all. I don't know, but I think the fact that most people on the spiritual side of things "stay in the closet" (to borrow the metaphor) doesn't help. Anyway, that's my rant for the night But to the topic at hand - I don't know anything about Tolle. The Dalai Lama, though, as I understand, is first and foremost a political figure on the world stage. From what I remember he has done some quiet work involving connecting Tibetan Buddhist monks with scientists interested in studying these phenomena (I think this was mentioned in one of Dean Radin's books? but I'm not certain), but he has an image to maintain. Whatever he is or isn't capable of, I doubt he would proclaim it to the world, because that would be counterproductive to his goals.

I'm no expert, but I don't think the part of the individual which becomes an immortal in Taoist nei dan is the same part of the individual which would be described as the "ego." Not to mention that there are a myriad of other spiritual traditions with their own views of life, death, what happens afterwards and what influences that.

But as long as we exist in a state of dual consciousness (which is to say, as long as we exist at all, since once we're completely free of duality, 'we' cease to exist as anything distinct, by definition), we experience reality in a linear fashion. At least, that's my understanding.

^While I found that passage very interesting as an argument for not allowing yourself to be distracted by other paths once you've found one which you know to be valid (which is an entirely different topic to the one raised by the OP), I'm not sure what you're trying to get at by posting it in response to the original question. The OP asked a fairly straightforward question (although the answer is less straightforward, I imagine), responding with a long quote to the effect of "all paths leading to the same location" doesn't really answer his question at all. Universalism has it's place, but to take the metaphor used in your quote and run with it, it's very easy to talk about how all boats lead to the same ocean when you're swimming in that ocean (except, importantly, for those boats which founder or pitch you overboard). For someone thousands of kilometers inland who's only just encountering water for the first time, and cannot imagine an ocean, who is in the process of seeking out a boat which will not only have to carry him forward without foundering or pitching him overboard or failing during his journey in some other way, but which will be his home, ideally, for the rest of his present life*, and so must be suited to that particular individual's needs, then the question of the nature of boats, and how different boats compare to each other and suit the individual, is an incredibly important one. Honestly, I feel it's somewhat condescending to downplay it. *(less ideally, he ends up with one of those faulty boats and finds himself stuck or drowning and reborn back inland before ever reaching the ocean, or stranded on the side of the stream hoping for rescue).

Basically what the title says - I'm looking for someone who has an understanding of energetic sickness and who is capable of diagnosing and treating such problems located in Melbourne, Australia. I mentioned quite a while back on this board the energy sickness I was having issues with (and I'll take this chance to apologize to those who messaged me and didn't receive a response - I came down very depressed over the whole mess and the atrocious state it reduced my health to and gave up on any kind of spiritual matters entirely for a few months) I've made some strides in recovering from the problem, enough to re-establish a basic practice, but it's still refusing to budge entirely, which is causing issues in my daily life and preventing me from ramping my practice back up. Unfortunately, living in a smaller city, I've been unable to find anybody locally (Adelaide) who can provide hands on help. However I'll be traveling over the Melbourne in a few weeks (and can do so regularly afterwards, if necessary) and I know there are at least a few other Aussies here, so I figured I'd ask. Thanks in advance

I've sent an email to Liu De Ming's school, unfortunately I couldn't find any information on a Dr Peter Koestler in Melbourne, but thanks for the suggestion Have you heard anything specifically about whether he takes an energetic/spiritual approach to his practice or a physical/biological approach? It seems to me from my search locally that there are a lot of TCM practitioners around who can do great things for problems which have a physical cause, but haven't been trained to treat issues with an energetic/spiritual cause (and often don't believe in such things). I get the impression that the "standardized" training has been Westernized and is now taught within the context of a materialistic/reductionist worldview.

Thanks and thanks, I'll look up both of those.

That just looks like standard martial arts stuff to me, other than the training in water (that can't be fun in Sweden). I don't think it's necessary to have quite that level of physical development to progress spiritually, but it certainly can't hurt. The main thing as I understand it is a reasonably fit (ie. some form of regular, moderate intensity physical exercise) and limber (this especially, since I can attest personally that tension and poor posture lead to blockages) body.

In theory perhaps - in reality, I've never heard of anyone who has managed a "complete mastery" so to speak, and practices a coherent system which enables all of the above. Just like any other field, I guess once you take it far enough you have to specialize.

I don't know if you need to go to "SEAL boot camp" lengths (I'd be interested in a link to the specific video you're referring to, because I've been reading Damo's books lately - Heavenly Streams is excellent, as a side note - and he doesn't come off as quite that hardcore on the physical training), and in fact I've always been told that that level of physical training (bodybuilder type stuff) is counterproductive, but even teachers I've corresponded with on the Hermetic side of things stress that you need a strong foundation in the physical body if you want to achieve serious energetic or spiritual attainment. A weak and tense body will be full of energy blockages and stagnations, unable to handle the energy flow of a heavy meditative practice, which can lead to some serious blowback (as I discovered for myself). Likewise poor diet, excessive chemical intake, poor sexual practices, etc. all strain the body, draining it of energy and thowing it off balance until if you indulge in these habits sufficiently they can be enough to counteract any progress you'd otherwise be making. A good example is the Yogi's of India and the work they went to to cultivate a healthy, limber body with diet and asana practice. They weren't martial artists, their goals were purely spiritual, so obviously they felt that it was beneficial enough to dedicate a significant amount of their practice to it.

Damn, that's some amazing scenery. Forgot how vibrant the rainforest up that way is.

Ah nice I have family a bit further north, brilliant area, amazing mountains and rainforests. I'd love to find a small cabin or something somewhere up there and rent it for a meditative retreat sometime down the road, but I'm not sure I could live so far from the city.

I wouldn't call myself Daoist or Buddhist, my knowledge of Daoism is on a beginners level, and my knowledge of Buddhism below even that, but I found Daoism appealing because of it's focus on the natural world (which is where I personally find the divine most fully expressed) on balance and equilibrium, on enjoying life and living it wholly instead of rejecting the world around us as an illusion to be escaped, and it's very scientific approach to spiritual matters. Buddhism by contrast feels like a "race to the finish line." Yes, spiritual evolution is important, but we're here in the physical world for a reason and we might as well allow ourselves to enjoy it to a reasonable degree. I also find Buddhism rather morbid, with the constant focus on death, suffering and nothingness. I'm sure I'm massively misinterpreting both philosophies on at least some of those points, but they're my personal impressions gained from my research and experience. I also don't have anything personal against Buddhism - I know a lot of people find it very beneficial and gain deep meaning and insight from it, but it's just not for me.

Thanks, shot you a PM (this is also a thinly veiled bump in case anyone else is around to make recommendations)

This is going to end well... Every system has it's own markers which signify the achievement of certain attainments. Since these burn marks develop as a result of a very specific internal process designed for a very specific purpose, I doubt they would occur in anyone who doesn't practice either the system in question or one who's methodology matches it very closely. A system which uses different methods because they have different goals would have no reason to manifest this specific sign.

I think it comes down to the context. For therapeutic use, I think using the chemical by itself is useless (and the research bears this out, from what I remember). They can be extremely beneficial, but the context is essential - ideally some kind of all-inclusive, long term, multi-modality treatment program. Create a safe, healthy environment (somewhere between a psychological therapy and a meditation retreat, where patients can either come for periods of weeks/months or visit regularly for outpatient treatment), have the individual go through a process of extensive personal counseling, behavioral therapy, spiritual/energetic treatment and lifestyle adjustment, punctuated by experiences with the appropriate chemicals in an appropriate environment, closely supervised by a professional experienced with the substance and the wider issues surrounding it's therapeutic use. Spiritual use I'm less keen on. I think in the long run, they have the potential to do more harm than good in this context - I've always felt that if you need a chemical to attain a state of consciousness, you probably have no business being within that state of consciousness in the first place. Enough can go wrong with spiritual cultivation without throwing unpredictable drug experiences into the mix (and I've yet to meet or hear of anyone who either had their spiritual path triggered by a drug experience or who used drugs as a part of their spiritual path and then grew out of the drug use and went on to significant attainment). My own experience and observation is that it tends to lead to people relying on the drug to gain insight which they preach and adopt aesthetically but don't integrate into their mindset and lifestyle, and to an obsession with the drug itself (as opposed to the drug as a simple window into a higher state of consciousness) which can often become dangerous. People who consider themselves spiritual, but who's spiritual life is nothing but the consumption of these drugs and then the descent back into materialism in their day to day life. Perhaps, like therapeutic use, a way could be found to create a setup where the benefits outweigh the risks, but we're a long way away from that I think (and I also imagine that by that stage, we'll have found more direct ways to alter the consciousness, instead of ingesting random chemicals because some of the parts of the brain they light up happen to have beneficial effects).

If you think the hipsters are bad in Sydney, avoid Melbourne at all costs I'm curious, where do you actually live? Northern NSW somewhere?

I'm far from an expert, but a few thoughts I've had on the same topic: - Energy exists on a vibratory spectrum. Just like any spectrum, you can divide it up in a lot of different ways. A color wheel is a good example - you can divide it into any number of colors and you can never specify one exact point where one color becomes another. Likewise, you can never specify where one element becomes another, or exactly how many elements there are. - I often see the Wu Xing described as processes of change (and specifically as processes taking place in the internal Chi of the body), as opposed to the 4+1 (Hermetic/Hindu/Buddhist) elemental setup, where they tend to be described as more universal energies which serve as building blocks. I haven't experimented enough to comment, but it could be that the Wu Xing are more equatable to the Western concept of the 4 Ethers, or the Tattwas of the Hindus (specifically, in being subsets - Chi is strongly related to air, so possibly Fire could be seen as Fire of Air, Wood as Wood of Air, etc. in the manner of the Hindu Tattwa system). - In hermetic cosmology at least (my knowledge of Buddhism is weaker than my knowledge of Hinduism, which isn't so great either - so if my talk earlier about the Tattwas was gibberish, someone feel free to let me know), Air is considered to be a dualistic element, created from the interaction of fire and water (yang/electric and yin/magnetic) and so serving as a medium of communication between them and possessing properties of both (the expansiveness of fire with the magnetism of water, which is what makes it the ideal medium of communication). I've found that you can roughly equate the properties ascribed to metal in the Wu Xing to the watery/yin/magnetic properties of Air in the Hermetic cosmology, and the properties ascribed to Wood in the Wu Xing to the fiery/yang/electric qualities of Air in the Hermetic cosmology. - There seems to be a strong correlation between the 4 element system and the trigrams on the Bagua symbol, depending on which version of the symbol you're looking at. - Going back to what I was saying about spectrums, these are just imperfect attempts to describe aspects of reality which are difficult to quantify. Don't stress over it. I wouldn't worry about whether they "contradict" as long as you maintain internal consistency (if given a practice which uses the Wu Xing setup, don't try and adapt it to the 4+1 setup, or vice versa - I know people who practice them alongside each other with no problem). On this I would say a definite no. The properties ascribed to Metal in the Wu Xing aren't anything like those described to Void/Aither in the 4+1 setup, and attempting to do so would be twisting both systems to try and make them fit together, which can cause all sorts of problems.

Which direction of practicing? What do you want? Health & longevity? Martial ability? Energetic/"magical" powers? Expanded consciousness? Spiritual encounters? Out of body experiences?

Haha I'm not big on country life - if nothing else, I want to be in a major city for access to martial arts training. I've got friends and family there and spent my early childhood there, so I guess it's a bit of nostalgia factor. It's got a great music scene (a great "everything" scene really), and the alternatives are Brisbane (spent 10 years there and everything else aside, you'll never get me to go through another Qld summer) or Melbourne (which is like a bigger Adelaide with more hipsters). I'm not sure, maybe I'll end up somewhere else in the long run, but Sydney has an energy to it that nowhere else in the country really matches, imo.

I don't care how colorful it is: