Dolokhov

Interesting - how do you see that issue?

Oddly enough, the man who discovered the Big Bang Theory... was a Catholic Priest.

That's very interesting. I see a lot of people who have that definition of faith - even many Christians. I don't see it that way. St Isaac of Syria said, "Natural knowledge, which precedes faith, is the way to faith and to God." Knowledge should be a necessity, not an opponent to faith.

There's a joke among Folk Orthodox people (Russian, Greek, Romanians) involving a man who tried to ask a priest a question, but the priest was busy, so he went to the village witch instead. That should give some indication of the cross-play between those two belief systems in eastern Christian countries. The people are much more religious than in western Christendom (Greece's constitution even mentions Jesus) and the witches obviously aren't recognized as recommended spiritual guides, but they still apparently exist somewhere in social strata...

My friend, I'm sorry to hear about your condition. I had almost exactly the same thing happen to me when I was 18 (now 23), though not meditation-related. I agree with the people above who say it might be depersonalization disorder. I'll tell you I don't know how to solve the problem. I agree changes like this - loss of libido, loss of emotional states - are rare and never welcomed. I know from personal experience. It's like someone losing hearing or their sight or health. Anyone who tells you "just get over it" or "suck it up" doesn't understand the full scope of what happened to you, and probably can't conceive of it if they wanted to. What I can tell you is that this experience may teach you some very insightful things about life. I sincerely hope your happiness comes back as quick as possible. Until then, we'll be here to sympathise and commiserate, although I know a cure is also strongly desired

I agree with you silent thunder. It's interesting - With modern Christianity it greatly depends on the church a lot of times. I have some friends in a charismatic/evangelical church, and their beliefs often leave me speechless because they are so different than mine (Russian Orthodox). As far as I'm concerned, if my beliefs really make me happier and present the most worthwhile way to live, you'll see that when you talk to me and will naturally be drawn towards them. I don't think I should have to strong-arm you into my church, because in theory you would already go willingly if there's something attractive there.

Abbot Pastor said: Get away from any man who always argues every time he talks. -Sayings of the Desert Fathers

*Bows* Thank you for your perspective friend and taking the time to answer - I am a beginner in everything, so I often need more perspective Blessings, D

As a teacher should be: "Those who presume themselves are not distinguished Those who praise themselves have no merit Those who boast about themselves do not last" -Tao Te Ching, Chapter 24

Thanks! I'll have to read it - I don't know a lot about this sort of thing

Other disciplines (Monasteries of the Orthodox Christian tradition) also have two hours of sleep without bad side effects, though I agree such a thing is not for beginners. (And neither is this retreat, according to Vitalii.) Just a question Vitalii for my own understanding: I didn't know that an unbroken lineage existed for Zhendao as is the case with the Celestial Masters of Tianshi Mountain, though I do know that Wang designated one of the seven disciples to be his successor - could you tell me more about that?

Great topic. My list was simply: "The Complete Works of Aristotle" and money

Ah - okay. I think I get a little bit more what he meant, but I still disagree. Even if he doesn't ask for things like money and a hot wife and a big house, he still has to ask for things from God: the very ability to do something for God requires asking for his grace, because "apart from me you can do nothing." (John 15:5) (At any rate I wouldn't be surprised if I'm still misunderstanding the point, so I apologize if I still am!)

Adept, you are not alone! I would dare say that those who see their room for improvement are even greater than those who see angels. One requires a sense of sight, but the other requires the movement of the heart, and many people are unwilling to do that. Thus I consider true masters the people who thoroughly introspect themselves and try to improve themselves. This idea is a little strange to me - how does one as a Christian need nothing else from God? Isn't the whole religion built on the utter dependence on Him? Maybe he didn't mean the statement in this way, though.

Thamosh, what does shen power look like, out of curiosity? How does one determine that someone has it?

"Acknowledging God" is one way to put it; I'd also add something else to clarify: I don't have to acknowledge God just because he's some sort of jealous attention-demanding child who gets upset if I look away. God's nature is eternal, immortal, and life-giving by definition. I need to become a "partaker of the divine nature" (as St. Peter says) because I am mortal and not self-sustaining (nor created to be such). So I need to come in union with him for my own health and life, because he is the "God of the Living." Sin is just something that disrupts this union. When I start concerning myself more with money than I do about God, I become greedy (one of the big seven sins) and might start caring less about anything else. If I care only about myself to the exclusion of my relationship with God and my fellow man, I become prideful, and the union again suffers. All of the sins (look at the ten commandments for examples: murder, stealing, etc.) break relationships with others and with God. All of the virtues (humility, patience, kindness) build relationships with other people and with God.

I'd think "cultivation" should make you more genuine, more approachable. This should draw people closer to you. The Buddha said that we should have compassion for all people, so did Lao Tzu, so did Jesus. You can't rightly be compassionate (which comes from the Latin, "suffering with") if you stand on a different level from the rest of the world. You have to be down in the valley with it: "The greatest good is like water. Water benefits all things, yet conflicts with none; it dwells in places scorned by most. In this way it holds close to the Way." -Tao Te Ching, chapter 8

I agree. As a rule, we should always be cultivating Heavenly things instead of tripping around earthly ones.

"I'd be really curious to know if any traditions, either daoist or others, employ this kind of practice these days." Of course. I was actually surprised that many people thought 2 hours was abnormal. Maybe it's not pleasant, but for me it's nothing unusual to hear about. There are a few Catholic monastic traditions that only get only get 4-5 hours of sleep every night (maybe the Carmelite and Benedictine orders, but I'm not sure exactly). In the Orthodox traditions, monasteries vary between 6 hours to as low as 2 or 1, depending on the grade of their asceticism. Still it's a big change, for sure, and a big decision to make

There's a lotta good mystical theology that didn't get cut and dried in the Reformation by Knox and Calvin and Zwingli etc., which exists in the Eastern church traditions, but I admit even there people (mostly laity) anthropomorphize him out of wack

Ah, that is actually a question which I often debate with myself, Vitalii. You are a teacher of students, maybe you can give me some insight: when is it good to respond to attacks, and when not? I know that Jesus and Socrates were very picky when they responded to attackers, but I imagine this is very hard to always be silent. I welcome your opinion!

Just a couple of things I noticed as a bystander. I don't mean these with any ill-will towards anyone: 1) I sympathize with people who want exact information about a school. I'm not saying anyone here is a fake, but fakes do exist. False prophets appear in every religion, and counterfeits exist of every quality product. Getting exact-as-possible information about a school, its lineage, etc. is therefore desirable for seekers like us, especially if the school makes a great claim, like "saving formerly confidential methods of an ancient art of Daoist immortals" (from the Zhen Dao Pai website). So I don't blame anyone who wants specific proof - it is important. 2) But perhaps even more important than a school's lineage is how the teachers in it act, because this definitely cannot be faked forever. If someone says their teachings bring inner peace, but they're constantly getting into quarrels, avoid that school and those teachers. It's like a doctor who claims to know the secret to complete health, but is constantly getting sick himself. "You will know them by their fruits," as the Gospel of Matthew says. So I would also think about this when judging a school or a philosophy.

Peace friend I don't believe in such a God either. The "blasphemy" I see in that verse (which, btw, we should take in context, not just as a single verse floating in a vacuum) is a continual sticking-your-head-in-the-sand when the truth is right in front of you. The story says that Jesus worked miracles which were obviously from God. The Pharisees knew this but said "it must be from Satan." So Jesus essentially said, "I can't make you accept the fact that this is from the Holy Spirit if you don't want to." It's like having a medicine for your illness right in front of you, but you decide not to take it. If you do, you'll remain sick - which is what happened to the Pharisees, spiritually. And obviously this blasphemy is not a single moment or event which damns you for the rest of eternity, even after you've repented. That's not true - and I agree with you that we shouldn't worship such a God. As above, this type of "blasphemy" is simply the same as refusing health - once you decide to take the medicine, you're fine. But if you don't, Jesus isn't going to force you to be healthy (spiritually that is, which involves forgiveness, repentance, etc.)

There are forms of Christianity which significantly mirror eastern religions. Thomas Merton (Trappist Monk) wrote a book called "Zen Catholicism" and pioneered dialogue with prominent Asian spiritual figures, including the Dalai Lama and Thich Nhat Hanh. In Eastern Orthodoxy, a monastery actually released a book called "Christ the Eternal Tao" which compares the Tao Te Ching to the mystical theology of Orthodoxy. We are much closer than we realize. But would a forum work? What would we discuss there?

Ah. I'm don't know enough about this tradition, so I'll have to refrain here