ShifuC

For an answer to this, you need to go back to a root source that pre-dates the TTC, the I Ching. The I Ching is based on mathematics. Also, most people here and everywhere believe also in mathematics. I won't bore you with details of the dirac delta function but suffice it to say it says that the only objective Truth is an infinitely thin line from 0 to infinity which if integrated from negative infinity to positive infinity (re: ALL of creation), its area or intergal is One. AKA Oneness. So the empty is 1. Thus 1/0=infinity is "convserved". Now, this line if placed over a compass points "north". Every hear the expression "my life is heading south?" We all know what that means, and there is a reason we do. When you place the #11 hexagram over the diagram proposed you'll note that Earth is on top, and heaven below. Empty in the mind, heart full of Tao/Qi/God/Yang. This is also called putting hsot and guest in their proper place. From this we know that the Universe is maintained in tranquility when I consciousness is removed and we consciousness replaces it. The heart is teh place where trust-worthy judgment happens. It is a vibratory measurign device. It flutters when you fall in love, it sinks when you feel terror. If people wish to judge the I Ching, consider King Wen; and also the Sun, and I rest my case. As for what this all means.... IN ANY PRACTICE, from retention to samadhi to reverse breathing there is no always right answer except what is right in the moment. You have to trust your heart and the vibration it is playing TODAY. Consider this story from the Lieh-Tzu: "Mr Shih of Lu had two sons, one of whom was a scholar and the other a soldier. The former found in his accomplishments the means of ingratiating himself with the Marquis of Ch'i, who engaged him as tutor to the young princes. The other brother proceeded to Ch'u, and won favour with the King of that State by his military talents. The King was so well pleased that he installed him at the head of his troops. Thus both of them succeeded in enriching their family and shedding lustre on their kinsfolk. Now, a certain Mr. Mêng, the neighbour of Mr. Shih, also had two sons who followed the selfsame professions but were straitened by poverty. Envying the affluence of the Shih family, Mr. Mêng called at his neighbour's house, and wanted to know the secret of their rapid rise in the world. The two brothers readily gave him the desired information, whereupon the eldest son immediately set off for Ch'in, hoping that his cultural attainments would recommend him to the King of that State. But the King said: 'At the present moment all the feudal princes are struggling to outbid one an- other in power, and the great essential is to keep up a large army. If I tried to govern my State on the lines of benevolence and righteousness, ruin and annihilation would be the outcome! So say- ing, he had the unfortunate man castrated, and turned him away. The second son, meanwhile, had gone to Wei, hoping that his military knowledge would stand him in good stead. But the Marquis of Wei said to himself--'Mine is a weak State hedged in by power- ful ones. Wei was bounded by Chin and Ch'i on the north, Lu on the east, and Chêng on the south. My method of preserving tranquillity is to show subservience to the larger States and to conciliate the lesser ones. If I were to rely on armed force, I could only expect utter destruction. I must not allow this man to depart unscathed, or he may find his way to some other State and be a terrible thorn in my side.' So, without more ado, he cut off his feet and sent him back to Lu. On their return, the whole family fell to beating their breasts in despair, and uttered imprecations on Mr. Shih. Mr. Shih, however, said: 'Success consists in hitting off the right moment, while missing it means failure. Your method was identical with ours, only the result was different. That is not due to any flaw in the action itself, but simply because it was not well timed. Nothing, in the ordering of this world, is either at all times right or at all times wrong. What formerly passed cur- rent may nowadays be rejected; what is now rejected may by and by come into use again. The fact that a thing is in use or in disuse forms no criterion whatever of right or wrong. There is no fixed rule for seizing opportunities, hitting off the right moment, or adapting oneself to circumstances; it is all a matter of native wit. If you are deficient in that, you may possess the learning of a Confucius or the strategically gifts of a Lü Shang, and yet you will remain poor wherever you go. The Mêng family were now 'in a more resigned frame of mind, and their indignation had subsided. 'Yes, you are right,' they said; 'please say no more about it.'" -------------- From this we can see that there are no permanently right answers to the subjective observer. Now I can render an opinion on the topics brought up, but I reiterate that your own feelings and where you are at in your practices are what matters the most.

If by "the way we are" you mean immaturity happens to everyone, then yes, I agree. But people can also become mature.

This thread is of terribly low class and low vibration. Why is it pinned in this forum? Are admins saying they are proud that members ignore each other on purpose? Am I missing something here, is this some kind of joke?

Good point. A statement on people (who don't really seem in control enough to be judged IMO), or on utopias? In my experience, easiness makes people fat, lazy, stupid, and weak. But I am a martial artist so that might be an unfair judgment. I think old people deserve ease, though.

Well with all the talk of fools I couldn't help but recall the greatest quote on foolery from the king of 'em 5 Gentlemanly subjects or arts, or studies I am sure you have: 1) Martial Arts (sometimes not this but just art) 2) Music 3) Medicine 4) Calligraphy (I take this to mean writing in general) 5) Poetry (I again take this to mean reading) Really, whatever refines the person into a gentleman is "superior". I don't think watching football counts, but I've been wrong before

The Mesopotamians seemed to think so, too. :-) Wetico is a serious disease in native thought. Still, don't we enjoy all the upgraded hardware so we can vivisect and disect the Tao? It may be that we were better off half and half 4000-6000 years ago... or it may be we always ancestor-venerate. Hard to know such big pictures. But surely from an individual perspective the original face and mind of tao are more poignant than ever in these twitter, red bull, facebook, miley cyrus days :-) Also, a little Te seems to go a lot farther than in the old days since we have so little connx in terms of a daily routine. I mean look at our politics, we have so few heroes, anyone doing anything positive is a sage practically!! So maybe entropy is not all bad :-) Opportunity for all us seekers. I mean at no time prior to 1970 was taoism a well paid position, now it is the subject of multi billion dollar -star wars- industry! We pay the price for seeking and separation... but also it is all so amazing and present and available as never before. Would Zhuangzi approve? Maybe not, but i like to think he is kicking it in his new form and making the best of the new digs. Certainly we shouldn't open Pandora's box so much.... but when we do the Tao just keeps producing... how marvelous and fortunate! How painful, too, of course. My God the laws and punishments are relentless, but with the Tao you mostly avoid the ghastly samsaric crap, then you are left with getting to watch an ever blossoming lotus. The science these days.... nom nom... and the movie graphics? Eye candy!! Oh what bizarrity! What ineffible ironawesomeness! The yin of samsaric life as it increases so doth the yang of it. Potent delusion powers passions which enhance the union. Then you leave the cycle and the center is all the more worthwhile. The desert island isn't 'cast away'... it is Sanctuary!

Hard to say what it is. I mean De is almost as elusive as Tao. But we see it in comics all the time. We want the 'good guy' to win. We are, like flies, attracted to the light side. We make stories about jedi and about dark jedi overcoming sith. Anyone here hate it how Yoda lost to Palpatine? Or want to really see Superman or Goku fail? Not really, bc you all are seekers, northward facing folks. And that means builders of Te. Doing good deeds isn't merely karmic, wise, and helpful, it is good training. The lower the ego goes, the more the line btw self and other vanishes and the more one wishes to serve. Without Te though, one's influence will not go far. Read the Neiyeh, it is very straight forward. And Mengzi too. Whatever Te or li are, they are pretty important in our outer life. Agree. They are very diverse. But it seems the source was very similar despitethe outflow. The dna is dna, but sometimes made a tree and sometimes a flower and sometimes a fish. We were all once flawless gorilla-like empty taobums. Whatever happened to us!? :-) That is what it seems from research. Hun, po, shen, yi, and zhi... the combinations of which make dosha-psyches roughly 3 levels. Conscious-intellectual-rational mind, subconscious, and unconscious. The interaction of yang soul or hun with shen and yin soul or po makes for a multifaceted self that is often at odds. We know what is good for us but are wierdly self-destructive, for example. At any rate, the krishnans think the hun is an atom of soul. The taoists call it a black pearl. Or the gold pill. I guess depending on inward or outward direction of flow in the wu-toroid. Inward makes empty black, outward a golden flower-light. Science calls it vacuum energy. Meanwhile, gui still seem to hang around, so it must be that part lives on, and part dies but merges with the 'ether'. Hard to know much more concretely anything else. Like i say i am finding synchresis for about 5 or 6 traditional paradigms. Difficult, but not impossible math.

Btw i am having fun already. What heated debates? No egoes are hot enough to count as hot! Let us, if we spend Jing on debate, enjoy the peaceful wars we wage to assuange the anguishes of our lack of pathos in an imbalanced society, and not take anything personally. Imo.

'Like most things, I am nothing.' I cannot convince anyone i am not a con artist. In the Zhuangzi it is made clear we are all thieves - and hypocrites. We use ego-substance to breed, economize, and especially to propagate reputation. Sf. In my case is for doctor, but do i practice the real TCM? Do i practice the real herbalism? What is real meaning? Am i a real Taoist? Perhaps saying i am a con artist makes me real... and perhaps it is a conscious ploy to make you agree i am not and am in fact humble. I cannot convince you of either of these either. Don't put judgment upon me, i am 'baka'. Judge for yourself if i am real. I mean your subconscious projected me into your forum after all :-) You cannot say anyone else here is real.... let alone this one foolish former icchantika!

1) If we say don't take magic stories ltierally, are we "being real" or having sour grapes? Are we maybe just limiting ourselves. Before, when I was atheist and didn't beleive in all this Qi BS, I KNEW it was BS. Now I knwo a lot more. That makes me think teh cup gets as large as you can handle/need it to. I have more personal experiences/eye openers, but I'll leave it at that. And yeah, I have accidentally done telekenesis, never floated before or made lightning, but have used telepathy, made use of psychics, and also I have cloud-bursted. Who am I to judge these stories? Just have to try myself. 2) Yes yes, obviously we should all remember the higher paths, and highest paths, and One Vehicle, Great Vehicle, etc... But that doesn't mean we aren't supposed to gain samadhis and dharanis and paramitas and powers. After all, doesn't a new power give one inspiration to try harder and learn more? 3) I love the post about inner power + intent/focus. That is pretty much it. According to John Chang we just don't generate/sustain enough power. It seems from the Nei Yeh the heart of it lies... int eh heart. IF we can stay in tune with Tao and not be killed by our karma, then we will have enough time to store up Qi in the chest and attain powers. So long as we help people, I don't see the problem. 4) Lastly I want to say that magic seems to be divided into 4 classes: Lowest - tricks and illusions, including using hypnosis/mentalism to fool the person Minor - the small bindigns of magic that are in our everyday lives and uses (like electricity). For example, one commonly used black magic is to give someone a "gift" and then ask them for a favor. That is hardly making a person a warlock, but they know the spell of it works. It makes the other person subservient. I think people anywhere seeking magic would do well to first observe the magic they already know and use, and understanding karmic binding. Middle- powers acquired for the purposes of being a Jedi, for lack of a better term; I would also include manifestation/attraction in here as it is a type of telekenesis, after all. Highest- shamanic/ritualistic/even professional magics (like law or surgery or acupuncture) which rely on the mystic effects of karma to make unseen changes that mystify the casual observer. It seems that like the illusionist, one needs to know enough of how it works, while the casual observer must remain mystified for the effect to last. But unlike the illusionist, the shaman lets go what they CANNOT know or control to perform what people call "real magic". Is not chemistry or biology real magic? After all they do not KNOW everything they are doing, just enough, and they can clone things, make new beings, create substances all anew. Make no mistake, there is more magic being performed now than in any time in history! Power + intent, that is the key. Also remember that you must use your own golden light and essence to perform any ritual (hence why massage therapists and reiki practitioners wear out so quickly when they work so hard)... so don't go playing around with something dark thinking it won't affect your health: it will!

You have compeltely missed it. The concept of Te (De) is inherently related to Ming and Li. The reason for different words is they came from different regions and different origins, but the idea was basically all the same. Ethical behavior results in moral power. Mengzi meditated a lot, and Kongzi frequently referred to the Way (from his students' quotes). Remember, at that time there was no "Taoism" Tao and Wu-ji were separately derived concepts that really reflected the same observation through different peoples, that the Universe had a universal source. The Laozi school did not give Di (God) the credit for the unending power of it, while the Mozi school called the power Heaven (Tian). All of these are various degrees of separation of Yang Qi (from yin/yang school and medical philosophy). But the fact is that the real Tao that cannot be named, is at the heart of EVERY Chinese philosophy, and Buddhism was only accepted because it basically has the same idea in Dharma and Shunyata. The agreements between Chinese philosophy and Ayurveda are too numerous to discuss here. That lends credence to their scientific research, IMO. While the Chinese were coming up with these multi-facted parts that would later become Taoism, the yogis were doing the same thing. Where they differ is over-emphasized, IMO. But make no mistake, Kongzi WAS Taoist - by the standards of his day. The Zhou were obsessed with the "way" of Heaven in everything, and he was obsessed with the Zhou ancestors. I really suggest reading the Book of History, it is very enjoyable (more than the Spring and Autumn annals) This has long been challenged. It is a neo-confucian throwback from the Victorian era. I recommend checking out some of the newer Sinology works on real Taoism. And read Taoist Master Zhuang. I had a similar conception as you did before this year and I really had my eyes oepened. Taoism was always more public than private, and that makes sense. Most peasants prior to 1970 could not read or have libraries of Taoist texts. They relied on rituals and festivals. How is it esoteric? Very simple idea really. They saw the next world as a reflection of our own. You need clothes, food, and money in it. Highly pragmatic, really. Too simple? Perhaps. But after all, that's all we can guess the Other World is like, since we have nothing else to go on. As for the gods and spirits that they use to commune, yeah it gets heavily diversified and regional, but it isn't per say esoteric so much as Shinto/animistic. you need striving and non-striving to reach the Tao, according to Liu I Ming. In my experience this is more accurate a take than the Zhuang-Lao-Lieh school's ideas. I think Kongzi's "failings" (he IS an immortal you know, so I can't really judge him) is that he never could let go at the right moment and let his striving revolve into non-striving. He fought too much for his ardent views, failing to see the relativity of life. He held to what was "right with Heaven" and failed to see his choices would affect not just his family and followers, but the country. He should have bent and used Expedient Means. So many wise, sagely ministers fell victim to what was closest to them. Kongzi, Wuzi, Sun Bin... all of them were victims of court intrigue. I can't say I would do any better. But in life I have found that the luxury of ideals is a luxury. Winning for good is more honorably than losing on behalf of being "right." Then again, in the end it worked out for him. It's too bad his school ended up being twisted into a hatred of Taoists. As someone said "closed-hearted" is the essence of the problem with the many sincere Confucianists. Well, glad you asked. First of all, your avatar dies, that is the person who is an amalgamation of the 5 souls (Wu Xing spirits). Your gui is dishcarged right into the matrix of the Tao, and its data is accessible to anyone who had an type of quantum entanglement. However, like Jor-el, whatever you see/experience is just a shade of the original. Namely the part of the person that desires and lived "in the world" Meanwhile the Hun/Ethereal Soul returns to the Void (Wu) and is "cleansed" (See Book of the Dead), and is then re-combined with the essences of new mother and father, and these 3 parts make a new Hun-Shen particle that is inserted into the fetus. This was a crash course, but that about sums up my research from sino-tibetan-vedic-catholic-gnostic-shamanistic syncretism. That is not accurate at all. There are dozens of Taoist texts which refer to the cycle of birth and death. True, most texts came after the importation of Buddhism, but I am not sure that there were NO cultures in China that didn't believe in reincarnation before 100AD. After all, it's pretty much part of the Wu Xing system. Things moving from no form into form and out of form again must by common sense move into form again.... we cannot know for sure what the peasantry believed... we know they believed in Heaven and Hell based on celebrations, but we do not know if they thought ghosts could not come back to life. What the literati and gentry believed was way more diverse than has been reported and after all remember before the Qin dynasty there were dozens of states and after the Han, there have remained still dozens of sub-cultures including Muslim and Jewish and many others. Point being it is very unlikely that Vedic ideas did not invade the southlands at least until Buddhism. I am more or less certain they did. Karma was probably not a new idea to the Chinese.

Minor suggestion, this can be deleted afterwards. But it seems to me that if there is a Zhuangzi forum there ought to also be forums for: Lieh-Tzu Jade Mind Seal Yin Fu Ching I Ching and Taoist I Ching Huai-nan-zi I mean these are all equally foundational as those current forums. There may even be others. Just a thought.

Jerry Alan Johnson's Qi Gong therapy vol2 Opening the Dragon Gate: Making of a Modern Taoist Wizard occasionally I peruse the Chu-ci (Songs of the South) trying to re-read the Hobbit, but nto finding much time for it. Also I read the new Star Wars series, The Star Wars, and the God of Thunder, which is not blowing up my skirt to tell you the truth. I think my favorite comic right now is Dawn of the Jedi, which has numerous Taoist references! I most recently read: the Xingming-guizhi, Magus of Java, Taoist Sorcery (not sure it has an author to attribute it to), and my most favorite recent read was the Guigu-zi, which was really astounding and perplexing. Highly recommended there. I also read most of Taoist Master Zhuang and Early Quanzhen Masters, but they did sort of get less interesting after awhile. I plan to finish them soon. It sucks bc my tablet if you don't open t eh file after like 6-7 days it forgets your place and even your bookmarks. Pretty crappy app.

Just fyi, it's a pretty good movie. Slow, but if your'e a fan of Kongzi, or anything pre-Han, you have to see this film. It stars Chow Yun Fat (Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon)... *spolier alert* and I don't want to give anything away, but yes Laozi makes an appearance