Sebastian

Thanks, shen-nong.com looks outstanding.

Hey Guys, So If my understanding is correct, 10 out of the 12 primary meridians shoot up to the head, minus the pericardium and another heart meridian I believe. This shows the importance of the neck, primarily C7 or Du 14 points which funnels a lot of these meridians upwards. However, all 12 primary meridians have a close relationship to the shoulders. According to Damo Mitchell, one of the hardest areas to open up in Daoism is the area known as the Shoulder's nest. I've seen different degrees of emphasis on the shoulders accross lineages. My past lineage had a huge amount of emphasis on the shoulders where half of the entire set was shaking the entire body via the shoulders - Like you're pulling them upwards and let go repeatedly to make the entire body shake, the soles of the feet and bubbling points slightly rattling as a result. Now that I am 100% SFQ I don't see as much emphasis on shoulders other than letting them sit completely relaxed and hitting three massage points during the Qi-Massage if you do that. Are the shoulder's under-emphasized you think in most systems, and do you know of any particular exercises to open the channels in them ? I don't have any pains in them or anything, but this seems like a good area to invest efforts in. Thanks Seb

Yeah and it opens the wrists too... It's a good one. Although I retried the atomic symbol one based on Brian's recommendation, and boy did I feel it working on the shoulders.

Cool buddy - Just ordered the dynamics of standing still based on your recommendations here, I think it's going to be great.

Hi buddy

Thanks, so it seems there are two schools or complementary excercises to open shoulder meridians then. Let them fall naturally and relax in Wuji or perform slight stretches / rotations. Do you mean the latter can be counterproductive ? Sorry for the dumb questions, just picking up on this stuff. Thanks

Basic ZZ you mean just Wuji with arms resting on the side ?

What about swaiso, arm swinging ? I guess that one should have some value for the shoulders.

Cool, which ones in particular ? I am familiar with GOT.

Cool, I do this one too. 36 times backwards and 36 times forward while seated. I also do this pose from Nan Huai chin with arms completely stretched and fists pushing on the hips. Note that I don't do his super advanced vase breathing on that video, just wanted to show the pose. He says this benefits the shoulders. Video has CC option in bottom right.

Ha, Sorry, Spring Forest Qigong. I guess it could also mean Shoulders for Qi... haha.

Would you recommend this translation http://www.amazon.com/Ling-Shu-The-Spiritual-Pivot/dp/0824826310 And would this detail all the connections between the 12 meridians like you did in your post ? Thanks

Yeah, like some sort of electromagnetic coupling, nice analogy. And from a DC standpoint, there would be open circuits and nothing would flow if the two meridians we're not connected. Maybe you'd connect to earth, the body.

Thank you Kevin_Wallbridge. It seems you're asserting that the primary meridians have sub-branches that most charts leave out for simplicity's sake. And these extra ramifications connect exactly as per the ending / starting points on the simplified charts. Can you confirm ? I also really appreciate all the details, including the reference. What is the Lingshu, is there an English version somewhere that I could read ? Sebby

Interesting guys. So Aetherous is saying that there are collateral channels, but they do not necessarily path the baton from primary meridian to primary meridian. What is doing it then ? I'm asking this from a purely western / logical standpoint. Usually the Chinese system is very rigorous and logical within its own framework, but if you're going to define 12 meridians where the qi-flows, it would be important to know how one flows to the other. Perhaps the movement is non-linear, in that it just "jumps" magically from one ending point to a starting point somewhere else in the body ?

Sorry for the sidetrack, but what is the yellow court exactly ? Is it the solar plexus ?

Hey All, I discovered something during a SFQ class which I found pretty fascinating. The Master didn't get into the theory with us, because it involves I-Ching and perhaps even cosmology he said, so we touched on the practical aspect instead, which is already pretty deep. Basically, it states that the "spirit" of the vitality, or the "intelligence that animates the chi", goes through a different area of the body every year for 12 years and then resets and starts again. This spirit lives in different areas of the body successively, and fills them with intelligence and light. For example, at age 24 (making this up), the spirit of the vitality may be in the Heart. This is both an opportunity and a danger. It's an opportunity, because the potential to heal completely is there, as the spirit has all the intelligence to completely reset this area of the body, deep into the DNA. It's a danger because if you seriously damage your heart at this age, then you can wound the spirit and perhaps even your life. With the spirit in the Heart, it's the easiest time to make a spiritual connection as well, because the Heart can be much more open than usual. And it goes on like this, pros and cons, for each year and body area. I wasn't aware of this concept. I assume the spirit he is referring too is a more refined form of qi, yet I don't think it's referring to our real spirit. He had a hard time explaining this concept and used the analogy of someone driving a car. The driver is the spirit, and the car is the meridian system and qi. Is anyone familiar with this ? Would be awesome to see some theory about I-Ching that lead to these 12 year tables. Pretty mysterious too. Cheers, Sebby

Bump, anyone else know anything about this ? Thanks

Haha, about that, try relaxing your shoulders completely. The shoulders are like a canal gate. When you're thinking, you need the energy up in the head, so the shoulder contract themselves and block the flow of chi back down. When you relax them completely, it will help. It won't remove the problem of over-thinking, but at least you can sink the energy down now, like to the Dan-Tian.

Hey All, First, let me say that I I do believe in the value of sticking to one lineage. However, with the ideal comes the actual as they say, and a number of us here find ourselves at times overlapping these two popular systems in our practice. I already had a talk with member "Friend" here, and he told me there were no "counter-flows" or direct qi oppositions between the systems, and that it was quite safe from a high level.That's a good thing. However, here are other things I found out talking to "Friend" and some others * The Qi in both lineages has a different vibration. SM has the highest frequency. * The SFQ MCO with the CD (main practice) doesn't touch the SM qi which is different * It can be tiring to the body of switching systems, especially high speed / frequency systems like SM and then lower frequency / more physical systems like SFQ. It's like slamming on the brakes. My question is whether combining these two systems can actually be counter productive ? Assuming that you are meeting daily requirements for each.

To answer some earlier comments, I'm asking this as a practitioner of both systems.. A strange set of personal circumstances drew me to Master Lin, and Minnesota, so I feel this is my fate. And my linear practice predates SM. I was curious about SM and joined on the side through the online class and practiced for about 7 months. I definitely saw the value and incredible depth of the system and I have a lot of respect for Yamu. Through these movements, I've had moments of complete weightlessness, walking on clouds, etc, too good to describe. However, I've recently come to realize what embrace one lineage means, so I had to make some tough decisions about how to split my time. I guess I was trying too hard make these two lineages work together, both which I love, but I don't think you can get away with things like that. Anyways, yamu's post was really helpful in this thread, think I got all the info I need at this point. Thanks

Great, so I guess no one here seems the association of these as counter-productive ?

Second Soaring Crane's opinion of incorporating a standing practice like Zhan Zhuang. Generally speaking, anything standing related, with bent knees, for about 30 minutes a day will do a lot to build kidney energy, your energetic base so to speak. If you continuously waggle your arms, exhaust yourself through random movements without any grounding, you'll expend energy instead of building it. I'm not saying these practices are bad, just that you need to charge yourself up well if you're going all out in them. You need energy to expend before you expend it. Additionally, combining multiple energy systems can take a toll on the body. Not sure how many you are doing, but this can also be a factor. Just my two cents, but I thought this might help a bit

Hey Buddies, Help me figure out the chemistry that goes on during the Zhang Zuang holding the ball excercice (or standing like a tree). More specifically, I'd like to get an understanding for the energies that we are generating, transforming and feeling. One obvious effect is that the Dan-Tian or lower abdomen get warmer. Member "Zoom" wrote a while back that the heat actually came from qi being converted into Jing, but I always thought that it was the reverse. Additionally, another member here was raving about Zhang Zuang because it supposedly generated a particular quality of qi that he referred to as "YANG Qi" as opposed to the "yin qi" used in weigong. About that, I don't think it's the Yang Qi that Nan Huai Chin is referring to in his books right ? Because Nan's Yang Qi is Kundalini like, it's the fire qi that opens the ren and the du meridians. Thanks, Sebby

Hey All, I am practicing the Small Universe as per Spring Forest Qigong ("forced" you could say) and seeing some good results. I feel refreshed and noticeably more energetic. Masters like Nan Huai Chin trivialize this practice however, but I think they were coming from a spiritual / enlightenment standpoint. The Health Benefits seem significant. A lot of sick people are currently using the SFQ Small Universe and are seeing tangible results, dedicated practitioners are reporting almost miraculous changes. Where do these health benefits come from ? From my understanding, real alchemical MCO is when you have enough Jing that it starts overflowing from the Dan-Tian and converts into Yang Qi, a Kundalini-like Qi that burns the micro-cosmic open so to speak. Obviously 99.99% of people doing the SFQ practice aren't at this stage, neither am I. So what we're basically doing, from my understanding is : 1) Circulating Jing across the ren and du-mai 2) Circulating "Wind Qi" or the lower Yin Qi across the ren and du-mai The Qi is actually strengthened by the guiding in the CD which makes the mind fall into emptiness. The meridians remain relatively closed in the process (compared to a real MCO opening) but by pushing Jing and Qi, are we clearing some gross blockages then ? According to Daoist thought, as stated by Master Lin, if you keep these two meridians open (relatively open in our case again), then you will remain healthy with no major blockages in the body. I'm definitely grateful to this practice, and can recommend it in any case. Thanks, Seb