Sebastian

I'll share something then.... About how open and closed systems can go together to draw in energy. From my experience, you need to be Song and relaxed before you can draw in Qi from the outside, optimally at least. Another way to say this is you need to be empty before you can be filled. So let's say you're doing a closed approach first. You first Song the tissues in the target body area where you want to draw in Qi. Tangibly, Song for me it fees like "creating space", "loosening" emptying out of blockages. Then if you follow the open system approach, you take that relaxed part of your body and subtly emit the intent to draw energy in, from the outside environment. This formula: "Song target area of body + draw in outside Qi in to target area" is from my Master's Master, which I guess you could say comes from an open system, but a system that still understands body mechanics. I think some people might say only the first part of that formula matters, and 2) would happen automatically or is not needed. You can argue either way, but Song seems to be the crucial component. Anyways, just some of my ideas for the conversation. I don't think open and closed is cut that dry... but I may be wrong !

Ha.... you alternated the title keywords.... I see what you did. Well, more power to you. Hope you get more viewpoints then.

You posted the same stuff/question here....

At midnight when the Yin Qi is at its max, and the Yang Qi is sprouting, you can do any gentle movement to help that energy rise. The main thing is to be awake, sit up for a few minutes. Then go back to sleep. This is mostly for inspiration though. This is how immortals from the Integral Way tradition practice. They understood that natural sublimation of sexual energy is required for high level cultivation. I think for most people, when Qi is at the sexual organs late at night, some of it will convert into sexual fluid later. You might have some dreams that go with this. This is natural and nothing to worry about. For cultivation sometimes you just re-use that energy before it becomes fluid. Other traditions have different ways to deal with this, some involve MCO, others practice in sleep etc... This is not important though. I think following the natural cycle of the Sun is more important than sublimation of sexual energy at this point. Just don’t abuse your sexual function late at night when the Yang Qi is sprouting. And be calm and relaxed around noon. Do most of your intellectual work in the morning, and progressively wind down in the evening. Just common sense. Don’t use the cell phone blue light very late too. Most modern people have this reversed. They stay up all night and abuse their brain function playing board games or something like that. Then they dose off until early afternoon. Theres a reason that traditional cultivation is mostly from 12:00 am to 12:00 pm — these are the Golden hours were the Sun is shining on you — and your Yang Qi is rising. Good luck.

This is so important. Our body's energy follows the cycle of the Sun. Where is the Sun at noon ? Above our heads. And where is the Qi at noon ? In the Bahui region. Where is the Sun at midnight ? Literally under the earth from where we sit. And the Qi ? At the perineum. So ... When the Qi is already at the top of the head at noon, you don't do strong Qi cultivation practices to raise energy. When the Qi is at the perineum at night and your body is winding down, you don't stay up and stimulate yourself with video games. What do you do instead ? In general, it's good to something that opposes the natural movement, but gently. At noon, you can relax and wind down. You can take a nap. At midnight, when the Qi is reaching the sexual organs, you can do some brief standing practices to sublimate that energy into a more refined form instead of being transformed into sexual Qi. Then you can sleep. Just some ideas.

True.... But there is also the overarching mind in terms of our perspectives, how we handle emotions, our existential views on life etc. These matter a lot. You have the classic example of someone dying in a very long term relationship and their partner loses the will to live, and dies in months afterwards. But not nearly as romantic, our perspectives in daily life matter a great deal. It's almost like we carry their weight energetically, and we cap our spiritual and energetic growth with them. Examples ' But I'll never be a happy person again without her' ' Things will always be different now that my business failed' ' I will never be fully able to heal from this disease' ' I'll be forever crippled by my early childhood life circumstances'. ' I am a person with low... (insert anything: libido, intelligence, money, etc..) Perspectives like this are insidious, and they will keep harming us energetically until we break the pattern. So healing the perspective is really important. For example a person may keep praying and asking for "health" but at the same time view themselves as a deeply unhealthy person. In that case, I'd say healing the perspective is more important. Don't have time to finish typing this unfortunately, got class right now, to learn Chinese lol. But it was a sort of tangent anyways. The message was to first clean your ways of thinking otherwise you will be doing Qigong with dirty water. You can open your channels, or pipes in one instant - acupuncture can help, and various modalities, but if you don't clean your ways of thinking they will clog again. This is common sense, and I guess true in the plumbing world too lol. But working on the body to address this issues can be used in conjunction, or even by itself it will directly affect the mind through the organ channels.

This is a real important question. I don't posit to have the answer unfortunately, and I would enjoy it if more experienced folks could chime in. I will tell a tale and entertain you though. Once, a super advanced member of this forum wrote "What is the LDT ?". I won't say whom. That is something to ponder. I will say that in the more traditional systems of neidan, you need to focus on LDT. Look at Wang Liping's system for example. According to Nathan, his lead Western instructor, you need 6 hours of meditation a day to create the (first) elixir in the LDT. Might take a year or more. And then they have 9 elixirs in total in their tradition. Nine. And that's not even the fetus yet. Got a few decades to spare ? >> Got LDT ? That is the question. Maybe it's like that "Got Milk ?" commercial. At first, the company wasn't selling much, until they posed the question to their target audience... Got Milk ? Suddenly they needed it, because they felt something was lacking. Isn't it the same for cultivation ? Some early Masters didn't even know what a LDT was, and it would come as a by-product of meditation and sitting practice. What I gathered from Master Ni Hua Ching in particular, is that sublimation is more important than LDT, although they can work hand in hand too. But the LDT isn't the end I mean. As long as energy sublimates, it is alchemy in that you are refining your gross sexual energy to subtle energy. And I think your question is only natural. We're conditioned to return the Qi to LDT, and it is safe too. But I would venture the thought that if you keep your mind still on your whole body, and don't specifically focus on LDT, I think you can still be fine, if you follow the principle of naturalness. In fact, I think not knowing what the LDT is, and not worrying about it, is sometimes more natural than having pre-conceived ideas about returning all the Qi there (and "packing it there" whatever that means). In other words, if you don't look for it, let it find you. Keep the mind still and one day you will feel heat from the lower abdomen region. Then you might say, "Hi LDT !" If your family and friends are around, they may send you to a psych ward though, so be careful. But if you are following a system, then please follow every step along the way. Creating a LDT is the starting point for many systems. I'm just saying if you practice in a natural way and don't impose any frames on your practice, then you're in a good place. At least you can learn and move from there to any system if you want too, and eventually build a DanTian if needed.

I like these two by Master Ni Hua Ching in particular. 1) Internal Alchemy (I also love the cover of the first edition which you can see below) 2) The Power of the Feminine The first one was first published in 1992. The second in 2004 and was one of the first books that Master Ni wrote by himself with minimal editing, compared to some earlier books. These are the opposite of dry or academic because they are personal in nature. You feel warm reading them, as the knowledge shared in the books was passed on for many generations.

Btw, regarding that back and forth between Silent_Thunder and Walker, I would just add, even though it sounds quite obvious, that the Tao cannot be bought. The real teachings cannot be sold, I think this is a given. It also doesn't require a financial commitment. I mean, the Tao cannot be packaged into CDs and DVDs and marketed, and bought for $9.99.... And it's the same for workshops, even though they can be very useful at times. Personally I've been taught by some wonderful Masters for free, for years, and I've also spent quite some money with others. However I don't view the paid instructions as less worthy. What matters as Silent_Thunder said is who you resonate with. And the subtle truth is that Masters can only teach you as high as your level anyways. By this I mean, your progress is still up to your subjective effort and sincerity. You are the one, ultimately who decides how high you want to take this, no matter if the instruction you received is paid or non-paid. I think Masters just work differently, and we have to respect that, in the spirit of the Tao. Some would get offended if they didn't receive compensation. So pay these people. Others would never accept a dime from you, so don't confuse them. Maybe show an act of kindness instead. But ultimately Tao has nothing to do with money, that's for sure, and you can learn much from street kids or your grandma I agree. I think the more specialized a knowledge or skill becomes, the more likely you are to pay for instruction, but at the same time, a small skill or esoteric specialty can never be the whole truth, because it is limited by definition. The Tao that is in everything, he Sun, the air, the innocence of that little girl, will always be free. I have much respect for Masters that teach workshops and also for those that teach others relentlessly for free... I think they both serve a purpose.

OK.... And to get back on topic.... here is a safe ritual that you can use to affect your environment - in this case the growth of trees. The little girl does it with innocence, curiosity and wonder. These qualities are already some serious "Magick" in my book....

OK.... You've inspired me.... So here are two gentlemen that deeply inspire me, and what they wrote about the moon. Fernando Pessoa (on Wholeness) To be great, be whole: nothing that's you Should you exaggerate or exclude. In each thing, be all. Give all you are In the least you ever do. The whole moon, because it rides so high, Is reflected in each pool. Ni Hua Ching (on handling emotions) The moon waxes and wanes. Tides ebb and flow. Emotion moves up and down. Only achieved ones enjoy The smooth flow of nature.

Wow, good memory. I had to dig that up, and even the link I had referenced at the time was broken. But because of your serendipitous thought I have found a way to bring it back alive. So thank you, and here it is in abridged format.... Although, this isn't my meditation, just something I shared in 2014 that apparently is used in some of China’s qigong hospitals, as part of treatment plan for a wide variety of emotional and psychological disturbances. It is beautiful though, you are right, enjoy.

Well the paddle at the beginning was encouraging.... but you need better rooting.

Wow, that was very sweet Yeah me too.... it’s for his personal touch - like a teddy bear I could place my head in between the pages.... and not for the multiple grands I would be making and driving around in sports cars.. with everyone waving at me, in Vegas... oh man, that would be nice... right, I’m with you on that one.

You can write this on my copy next to your signature. And if you do reach enlightenment one day the re-sell value would increase dramatically - so please don’t give up and keep practicing. I guess Earl Grey is way ahead of me with his 10 copies order though, clever move to call it like that. In gambling speak, Freeform is our horse, I got my money on him ! Don’t let me down man !! Don’t let these signatures go down in value !

This was a solid overview of the forum and quite balanced in its approach. I just want to add one thing that I don't condone, for this forum or elsewhere, and that is flaunting. Flaunting of wealth for example. It's one thing to have material things, but to flaunt them is another. The flaunting of things is such a pervasive sub-culture, just look at the media. People flaunt their looks, material things, and sexuality, right in your face, all the time. The message we receive is that our ordinary life isn't rich enough, our looks aren't good enough, and we aren't enough. And this happens in spiritual circles too, people can come here and flaunt their spiritual achievements too. What good does this do ? I don't really see any. It makes people with less money, lesser looks, and less spiritual experiences, feel lonely and abnormal. I don't think we should come to DaoBums to strut our bling but to level with others, and help them out if needed, in the spirit of Dao.

They have nothing in common. Osho's is like a cathartic dance were you subconscious takes over much like Zifgong. Did you read Walker's point here ? In contrast, Osho's "bouncing" looks like a dance in a mad-house.

This is very true Luke. I was once put off by a particular Master because I knew he was driving around in sports cars. Apparently he had made a lot of money from TCM, establishing universities in the West and had various businesses. And I just couldn't reconcile the fact he was driving sports cars with being a Taoist lineage Master. I didn't have much respect for him to be honest, but I was wrong. Because his mind was not tainted. Owning luxury items is not against the Tao - what matters is if it affects one's mind. This guy was busting his ass off to make a contribution to the world in the medical field and deserved every penny he made, and here I was judging his preferred choice of cars, as proof he was somewhat still materialistic compared to me/us. And I wasn't doing even close to the contribution to the world than he was. Making money is just part of the path too. Contrary to the popular belief, it is not more spiritual to be living in the streets or relying on others. So although owning some green paper may have nothing to do with Dao or enlightenment, at the end of the day you still need to find a way to get some, and you don't want to be a burden to society. I also agree it's hard to get a clear picture of something when you only have partial information. One side of the coin is always missing. That's why the intellect is so active, it tries to extrapolate. Judging is like flipping a coin with imperfect information. Sometimes we are right, relatively right, but sometimes we are dead wrong. And one side of a coin or of an issue can never be the final judgment on a person's character. As Silent Thunder stated, only the Divine knows what's going on, only the Divine has information that isn't partial. I might have a personal opinion about someone, but I know that my opinion isn't the final judgement, and I am not one to judge that person's worth. People will come and go along the ride, in DaoBums and elsewhere.... Some will inspire you, others mistreat you. But personally no matter how I am treated, I vow to follow kindness as others have suggested. Only kindness is constant, only kindness is whole, impartial and Tao-like. And kindness is our common denominator, it is the universal heavenly heart.

Nah..... This guy is way ahead of you guys

Very cool. Since your post is about embodying virtue, do you mind expanding on this paragraph. Not sure what the five lights are - you mean the 5 elements ? I was taught by my teachers that virtue can generate Yang Qi. Thinking positive thoughts about other people, doing good deeds without expecting returns slowly starts to build that good feeling inside your heart, and a healthy supply of light Qi that ascends to the higher centers in the body - the type of Qi that can fly. But this is undoubtedly a lifetime practice. You become a good person basically and let your goodness become the impetus of your spiritual development towards the higher centers in the body. It will slowly open the subtle channels in the head, and keep them open. This is unlike doing practices which involve the third eye immediately without worrying about your morality which seem a bit disingenuous in their approach. Unless you’re doing it with the right mindset of course. I was told it’s easy to do a good deed and get that good feeling inside your heart .... and the Yang Qi that comes with it. It starts knocking at the door of the higher centers, and it feels good. But can you keep doing it until the door slams open and you reach the Dao ? I think we all need to strive for that. Most teachers I met expounded the benefits of virtue in cultivation, so I think it’s great you have a specific practice for that. Dedicating merit would be a Buddhist example and would work the same, imo.

Yup. This is bait for Spotless too haha... I know he likes to hammer that point down... That meditation isn't trance. Sucks cause I always thought you could meditate in a techno or rave party. Alright, couldn't help myself with that bad joke. Last one, I promise.... But yeah I agree with you and Spotless on this. Carry on.

Bonjour Madame, If I may, let me try to help with this, from my limited experience. Although it seems Earl Grey just answered you, and has really good advice. So I can't add too much. But like him, I was taught working meditation as mind/body integration. So I thought the words you chose "intense focus" and "altered states" were a bit risky in this regard. "Intense focus" drives the Qi to the head, usually the forehead. So since you are a magician :).... use your magic wand and transform the words "intense focus" into "gentle concentration" and voila, you'll have "working meditation". A gentle concentration allows your Qi to drop, from your head into your hands, and into whatever activity you are doing. And you can stay with this "semi-interested" or passive focus, as freeform would put it, while doing every day tasks. The key is to relax (-> Qi goes down), and not to perform (-> Qi goes up). When you know the knack of this, you can do your activities with heightened Qi and energy. And about "altered states", I don't think they mean too much spiritually. But it sounds cool, I know, and just washing the dishes with an everyday consciousness sounds so boring.... so I'll give you another cool(er) term to chew on. "Spiritual tipsiness". Yup. If you have the sincerity to drop your inner dialog long enough to marry the Qis of your mind and body, and use your physical activity as the unifying experience (or the minister of the ceremony to follow this analogy), you'll start feeling a bit drunk inside. But the good part of drunk, where you'll be bubbling with Qi inside, and without the bad breath. So yeah, it's like a wedding were everyone got drunk.... Hummm, sorry went a bit overboard with the analogies here, but hopefully parts of this were useful to you .... Burp, a bit drunk myself, if I may.

Hi Scholar, yes, he is 103 this year and doing well. Not sure what he would think about how this thread has turned out, but I think he would chuckle a bit. Solar butt jokes, well I guess we had to go there as DaoBummers.

I didn’t know how to do it, until I saw this. You’ll need to get up at sunrise..... and two dogs apparently. Why the dogs ? Because in Chinese the word Tao is pronounced the same as “theft” - so as a Taoist, you need a way to protect yourself during your solar heist. But when you load the energy in the trunk of the lower body, you use it to help people and the world. That’s the difference. Collecting solar energy at dawn was one of the main practices of Yosan Ni, Master Ni Hua Ching’s Dad. That’s the inspiration for this post. May the Sun shine brightly on all DaoBummers, and all those (myself included) that don’t have the discipline to get up at dawn to collect it. Well, sometimes I do, haha Peace,

lol ! Nice one Jumper.