Yascra

Hi there, would like to open a new topic, so Jax' thread doesn't get messed up by a possible debate about this. Ok, so real transmission takes you higher than own experience? Might I add the question then: For how long? I mean, even Shakyamuni Buddha did meditate more than once a day, didn't he? Open for discussion ...

Seems to me very soft, flowing, not craving that much, thereby leaves a smooth impression at the moment, which is a great help for someone like me Offers possibilities to really find a balance between development of mind and body, but staying in touch with the rest of the world. Might be because I'm not deep into the religious side of it, but as a first impression that's really fine. And got there as I get to most things, by searching for truth and ways to realize truth

Yahoo Gotten rid of most of the things to clean up from last year now. Year of the horse can rush in, yippieh :-) And changed some things. Hope the non-material environment likes it, am not yet sure 'bout that

Hm, maybe moderation might move it to general discussions if it's of general relevance? I just left it here as the original thread was in the Buddhist section as well, but maybe there might be other perspectives to transmission? Actually I've experienced that even empowerments might work via video, and independent of the time. Why not, time is an illusion to some degree anyway, so if you're meant to receive that empowerment or transmission, why not?

Oh, please don't get me wrong about that, I absolutely agree with you that finding a good teacher offers great possibilities, and will in many cases be necessary to set up a good practice. In the end an experienced person offers you .. experience, which you don't have as a beginner. Unfortunately my experience is that Vajrayana emphasizes relying on BAD teachers OVER development of own wisdom, and that's were I see the problem. Especially in a system in which most of the persons who have authorization to teach lack what a teacher needs most to be able to teach - experience in practice. For me that would at least include experiences with more than one religious system, which is a requirement most of the Tibetan teachers will definitely NOT fulfill - but of course those are my special needs. Anyway - my experience is that a bad teacher can lead you far, FAR astray, and as you trust in him or her, maybe more than you would trust yourself, because you believe in his or her experience, which might turn out to be a wrong belief, that might end up in a catastrophe. I've met good guys - but unfortunately I've seen bad guys in this field as well, although most of the latter from sufficient distance. You don't want an arrogant and selfish blind person to lead you - it might end up in hell for both of you, and though his or her stay will be longer than yours, positive it might not be for you as well. There are people outside who teach not to meditate, there are even people outside, although that's not my experience with Vajrayana, but other bad teachers, who would advise you to learn killing sentient beings, in the name of training to "get rid of duality". Do you know this saying that one moment of anger might destroy the merit of aeons? Well, guess what might come out of holding such errant views for more than just a moment, but from even training this! It can destroy one's path for lives, that's the point. Unfortunately Vajrayana techniques are in most cases heavy stuff and should not be practiced without guidance. But for god's sake - if you cannot really claim to have the merit to have GOOD guidance on this way, then use your brain and take a road that might be slower, but in which it's not so easy to end up far, far away from the right track. That might all not be that important if you're cultivating for some form realm attainments. But if it starts to be about enlightenment, one should sometimes really think twice about what might be the best thing to do. So - agree, absolutely. If you find a good teacher, congrats to that, it's a great ressource for staying in the right track, and definitely better than not having one. But .. .. if the only choice is a bad teacher, then better rely on common sense. And that might include .. being honest enough to not practice stuff that's not meant for persons who lack guidance, background knowledge and sometimes maybe even prerequisites. All from the perspective of a student, to make that clear. I'm a beginner in the end .. but examining persons whom one might learn from and verifying criteria for what makes one NOT a good teacher are a field in which I've really been collecting experiences, on my own and from watching others. Which was exactly why I had a look an Vajrayana, btw - because I thought, hey, they are buddhists, so they should stick to the noble eightfold path and not lie, and if they give authorization - hey cool, they really have a system to make sure you don't end up with a noob claiming to be a master. Well, after some observations I found out that obviously it doesn't work. Would have been too great, maybe -.-

Dear, I'm really not practicing any kind of psychology as my main system, lol Hm, I think I'll have a look at her postings first, but thanks for the recommendation

Well, I'd prefer enlightenment instead of some form achievements, but everybody as he or she likes. But just to mention that, Vajrayana is not the only system that offers cultivation leading to rainbow body. It's just that other system might name this outcome differently. So everything fine in the end

Easy.. take your time, everything fine But you really don't need to argue with me, you know .. it's not so important to be right in the end. Best to you!

@chris_d, I liked you thoughts about word- vs. "real" transmission, so I made up a new thread for this topic

Well, the term "immediate realization" is not so bad, I think. It's in essence the same as is done in Zen, or what's meant by Mahamudra, for example. So, a four to five hours talk is definitely NOT transmission of immediate realization, for this is something that should take less than a minute That doesn't necessarily mean that the teaching is bad. If you have the karma and might take something from it, and might establish a connection this way - why not. Spiritual development is not necessarily a straight way.

Consequence: Drop Vajrayana, find a system that doesn't make you dependent on human relationships for spiritual progress

Don't get me wrong, dear - there are persons and there have been persons who've had more understanding than you have now. It's all not a problem as long as it's just about you. But if you want to reach a state in which you can teach others, you should get rid of your pride and arrogance, and start learning from persons who are or have been better than you. And another thing is - boy, do something for your MERIT, it's not all about technique. "Just believe in MY experience" is not a phrase that will make a skeptic person listen to you You might know that, as you yourself obviously refuse to take even advice from persons who said things like "try a little and see for yourself".

If you are sane, you don't cut anything, but let your body develop naturally and care more about your livelihood, merit, and development of things you don't loose as soon as giving up this messy body of yours. Just my opinion, though.

What's the problem actually? In the end he's not so wrong.

Hm, but sorry, my experience is that high level bodhisattvas as well as buddhas can open up worlds to you. Insofar it's not only an idea - as label for s.one who has climbed the whole spiritual ladder it of course is still a "label", but a label given to an extremely helpful instance inside the conventional world. Why kill that if being realistic tells you you're not finished with the whole of it yet?

Actually I just knew about the new year and was wondering what happened to the snake and what this horse was doing over there ^^ Well, thanks

Hmmhmm, obviously that one took me a while. Having an agenda is not necessarily bad, for helping s.one to reach enlightenment can be regarded as having an agenda as well. Concerning the "kill all buddhas" thing, that is just helpful in ONE particular sense. It definitely does not mean aggressive skepticism in any way, for actually to reach some kind of first awakening skepticism can turn out to be a big problem. The point is that enlightenment can be realized to a more or less degree.. And as long as you cannot correctly and fully comment on and explain what's meant by, for example, a teaching of Jesus Christ, then it might well be his realization is higher than yours - and in this case it would be a great impediment to your further progress to not acknowledge that. So, of course, kill the buddha - but do such things correctly. Otherwise it might just be stupid arrogance. All the best!

Happy New Year :-)

Argh, I should work on my imagination then But I could well ask you why you guys always leave that task to me

Oki, then who is "you"?

So what is "stuff" then?

Oops, this hour felt like 15 minutes ^^ Was "The inexhaustible stores of wisdom". You may dedicate it to the benefit of all sentient beings : ) I think I'll add a hot chocolate to my cookies

Oki I'll find a nice one for you And I'm eating chocolate cookies, which is for sure not as healthy as strawberries, and I also don't care what people might say