Yascra

You know @Nungali, I think my problem with it is that, what people teach you, is always form stuff. I feel I'd like to learn things, for I'm aware of the fact that I lack knowledge about a lot of things. But what I see to be offered is never what I'd like to learn. And, knowing that, I've really lost any interest in playing all those BDSM-games you have to do with any potential teachers. Always play the little nice child without intelligence and a brain and wisdom and experiences. Always first being taught that everything you've done till then was BS (usually without having been asked WHAT you have been doing inparticular), all the time being aware that just that expectation speaks for the low level of the person you're having contact to at that time. I've come down to seperate new teachings into "might help with something" and "will clearly be a waste of time", and guess in what category I have to put most of what I encounter. You can do rituals with groups, very great, great group sex, but as soon as you're finished with it, people will go on with their bad behaviour anyway. Just keep quiet as long as you're "in it", but even afterwards you're not allowed to do anything than serve as kind of a battery for some (group) spirit. I'm sick of it. Well, I can do mantras etc., and have effects from them, but what for? Karmic recompense is sure anyway. Try to grab something and hold it, and you'll just have more trouble to let it go lateron anyway, so what's the benefit of it? Do all that energy stuff, great, but dying is something most great masters did as well, so why care about it? You'll loose all those nice physical things at death anyway, and at least in my life I don't have a need to be able to shoot energy out of my hands. There might be different setups, in times in which there was no electricity, and no firearms .. and those times might occur again, but very probably not as long as I have this particular body I'm using right now. Is it normal that you're completely on your own if you want the "real stuff" and not just some nice feelings and nice decoration? If any of those guys who left over the last years were really masters, why didn't they manage to lead their disciples to mastership as well? Why do spiritual people nowadays seem to be too superficial and have too little wisdom to find out on their own that any nice little feeling you might have will vanish as well as any bad feeling or sensation you might have or experience? Why does it seem like just religion is left, and real spirituality has left everywhere anyway? Well, think I should stop that, could go on with a lot of it. What is not just a waste of time of which you'll later find out that it wasn't worthwhile anyway, in your opinion? Save people - lol to that. You can even purify people's karma for them, and still that will just be a cause for them once again not to learn the lesson, for obviously people tend to only be willing to learn any lesson the moment they do experience negative consequences of their actions. In the end you cannot ever save anyone at all, for either they'll make a decision one day to save themselves, or they're lost anyway, and in the latter case all you can do is cover that bad state with some sugar and nice colours so they don't notice anything. People simply don't want to make efforts to free themselves. They want to be and stay children who can't judge for themselves and make decisions on their own, just blinding themselves about the fact that karma doesn't care whether you're ignorant or not, and that going through consequences of your actions is something nobody can and will protect you from. But, lol, you could regard mantras as the anaesthetics that help you not to notice too much of that karmic recompense. In that regard it's cool to be just unconscious.

Hello knight, welcome to The Tao Bums No worries, just proceed at your very own speed I'd suggest Things are easy going here, no need to hurry or put pressure on yourself. Your introductory post has been approved, so you'll be able to post freely on the forum now. Please keep our Terms and Rules in mind when participating here. Good luck and all the best to you! Yascra

Lol Reminds me so much of the words with which I was kicked out off my Organic Chemistry final examination. Just that the guy doing so left out the part with being polite.

You know, there is this little bar in the upper part of the forum, in which there's written the word "Search", and if you click the settings right besides that you even have more options to ensure you really find what you're looking for.

Hahaha, cool post. People seem to suggest that one should do most of the aforementioned stuff. I feel there's a more wise approach to practice, that allows you to leave things out once they've served their purpose. So I feel some people I know in context of Western Magic won't take you serious if you don't do some of the "wild" things, but for myself I'd say I don't need that stuff. What would you say, did you just stop practicing or do you simply practice stuff that's more effective nowadays, allowing you to "retire" from most of those "rituals"?

Jesus helped a lot. But in the end you're doing that job yourself.

Yahoo, that is cool, thank you =)

Maybe Theravadan Buddhist. They also tend to say "dhamma". Seem to lack an "r"

You know, generally I do like the idea of having some kind of a "proof"-sign that someone has experience and understanding. I'm just afraid if it would be so easy to find an agreement on who is really experienced and has understanding, there would already be something like an official world-wide sign for it. Usually you would search for an enlightened master, or in Taoist words, someone who has the Tao, to confirm your progress. I do agree that it would be great to have a world-wide, religion-unbiased list of those people available somewhere, so they could give such labels. But I'm afraid it's not realistic that this will ever be done. And such systems of being allowed to give others some label seem to have a tendency to lead to decline, at least if any kind of power comes with having such a label.

But why would you call that "philosophical" or "Taoist"? I'd say what you're describing is just a process of reflection, which at higher level might improve one's awareness. That's really such a general description that you hardly need to put some religious labels on it, isn't it?

Uhm, no idea oO Would you like to suggest some?

Ouh .. picking due to what kind of criteria, please? I've met some people that had been more advanced than me at that time all stating that I'd be too bad, not sufficiently mature etc to be taught anything .. for short whiles always I've had SOME bad teachers. That's actually what many people are who want to teach, like those aforementioned people with 5-10 years experience. 5-10 years?? Well, some GOOD people go into retreat for twice of the latter and still feel they are not mature to teach. You don't want the people here to run for the criteria of persons who are worse than that? Doesn't lead to much good. On the other hand, some people might practice 50 years+, but if they still lack own realization they'll hardly be able to help you, while a 20-year-old with sufficiently cultivation in former life and good practice in this current life might very well be able to do that job. So obviously "practice time alone" doesn't give you a good hint as well, at least not if you consider that "practice time" is not limited to that very life you're living right now. Doesn't make it more easy, I'm afraid, but I fear those are things you need to think about. I think those issues are not even OT here, for if you want to discuss about real "teachers" in opposite to just "practicioners of lower or higher level" you really have to consider some of these thoughts, like, what makes a person a "teacher" instead of just an "advanced practicioner"? Finally, there are different levels of students and different levels of "teachers", and if you're further advanced than someone else you might very well be a teacher for that person, why not? Teaching means basically to help someone to progress, and you'll hardly ever learn to become a good teacher if you never dare to explain anything. It's a difference whether you're just a good practicioner yourself or whether you focus, in your practice, on skills that enable you to help others to procede as well. People are different - some are good fighters, some are good in explanation, some might be good via just showing you something. Whether you might be able to teach another person something also comes down to whether you have a connection to them, or are able to establish such a connection, for otherwise they won't listen to anything you say anyway. Well, really not such an easy topic

That might sound strange, but that's actually what I feel it to be, and my reason to be interested in it at all I don't see that big a controversy between different systems - I'm just interested to learn from different perspectives etc, and use what I get in the one to put in what I feel to be missing in the other. If you just do buddhist practice, you might very well feel kind of energetic flows etc. .. but my experience is that if you try to bring that up with other Buddhists, you'll end up in meaningless debate with people fighting for their pride, and will hardly get to the point of talking about "hard evidence". It's not that this topic is really missing in Buddhist practice, if you do the practice, but I feel a lack of communication about some parts of it. And thanks for that explanation about the roots and development That, I feel, is so very true :/ Feel no need to feed my belly anyway. I tend to feed my energy system wherever it lacks something, as good as I can at least I'll think a little about it, thank you

Ayyi, me want to, look here

I'd say in comparison to some buddhist and esoteric forums I know, it's quite well-tempered in here. Being offended isn't nice for anybody, including members that are not experienced teachers. On the other hand I'd expect most experienced teachers to be sufficiently balanced to deal with that. The problem I see about that is more that, well, if you're guiding retreats in some mountains you might have a daily rhythm of life that's not compatible with checking mails and reading through a forum. Actually I myself don't trust anyone who looses balance just because I insult him or her a little. On some level I tend to check people concerning those properties, and most fail due to arrogance or other lack of virtues. Urgs, I don't know what Chang thinks about that idea, but for me, thank you, but NO... how would I make sure that someone is a teacher and not a clever sock-puppet anyway? Concerning the criteria I know to test whether someone is a good and experienced teacher, you might calculate between two and six years or more for that to be done. I'd guess checking IP and introduction are the faster way Edit: In general I'd say, for a teacher to be available to persons via internet you need some teacher to like internet contacts, and the rest would be done by offering an adequate place/environment and atmosphere. If someone doesn't like this kind of communication, I'm afraid you'll never make those persons stay that long.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Steward in ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Topic has left introductory purposes and become a discussion, so was now moved from "Lobby" to "General Discussion". ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ /Steward out ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Hello neotaoist, and welcome to The Tao Bums Nice introduction Your introductory post has been approved, so you'll be able to post on the forum now. Please keep our Terms and Rules in mind when participating here. Have fun here, good luck and all the best to you! Yascra

Hello Mystique Enigma, and welcome to The Tao Bums Your introductory post has been approved, so you'll be able to post on the forum now. Please keep our Terms and Rules in mind when participating here. Good luck and all the best to you! Yascra

Hello s_k, and welcome to The Tao Bums Your introductory post has been approved, so you'll be able to post on the forum now. Please keep our Terms and Rules in mind when participating here. The Lobby is mainly for introductions, so questions are better placed in other Forums like "General Discussion". You might also use the search function at times if you'd like to know about things that have already been discussed. Good luck and all the best to you! Yascra

Hello iradie, and welcome to The Tao Bums Good to know you already found some interesting threads and information here and nice to have you on board now. Your introductory post has been approved, so you'll be able to post on the forum now. Please keep our Terms and Rules in mind when participating here. Good luck and all the best to you! Yascra

Oki, I'd say from the formerly written posts I'd conclude that maybe "karma" is not present in Taoism so far as a direct term, but that what is meant by it is largely also addressed, at least in what Marblehead pointed out to be Religous and Alchemic Taoism, right? By the way, what is Philosophical Taoism all about? If "Philosophical" should mean something like "theoretical" I'd hardly be interested in too much of it, I'm more the person who likes things one can practice. But I think that's just a side-topic in here... For sure, it's not so much about terminology for me, I'm interested in the main idea of "if not for cause and effect, what would be the point of being virtuous?" I'm afraid I don't like that reference to "failure". What does "failure" mean? Emotions can be quite successful in some ways, that's why evolution led to their creation. Being catched by a lion because you were not afraid enough and didn't run fast enough would not be the successful kind of outcome of that situation, at least not for you. I think that it's not that simple, and maybe acting with the Tao might have meant that the lion would never have tried to hunt you and feed on you, but if THAT is the case, then obviously not giving in to (wild) emotions can't be the whole story. Well, if that "law" would more be like one of the "laws of physics" that's not necessarily contradictory, I assume. So maybe not necessarily some "watching" instance or protocol. But, eehm, what would you think where such a difference of potential would come from? Yeah, I think that, or the perceived lack of that question, is exactly what confuses me about what I understood from Taoism so far I mean, you can talk a lot about energetic development etc, but finally that's all talking about very "worldly" issues, though maybe the laws are more complicated than what modern physics found out yet. What about a kind of basic mechanism, which will go further than that, and an interest to find out how this mechanism works, or, so to speak, how the world as a whole works? Is that an essential part of Taoism? Is it the "high level" on which you ask such things, or is it the low level, and is a high level more like this Wu Wei-thing? Maybe should have a deeper look at Taoist religion? My problem with religion is that religion tends to just STATE how things are and want you to believe; at least that's what I know from the religious part of Buddhism, and of course for Christianity that's not different. You'll hardly ever find out how the world really works as long as you rely on what others tell you without checking it. What would you guys say how a Taoist way of finding out such things would look like? All the best to you Yascra

Thank you so far for your answers. It's getting late over here, I'll think about your points and probably comment on them later

Hi again Laith, well, as a short unprofessional explanation from me, a blog would usually be lead by one group or person, where they would present their articles/thoughts/stories, maybe allowing others to comment on that. On the other hand a forum is more a place for exchange amongst a community of users like you see it in here See you there! Yascra

Hm, I'm more the guy favoring online resources, and he has some articles concerning that issue on his hp Edit: But yes, I'm talking about the author of that book, if that's what you were asking.

Hm, okay, starting in December 2012, that's less than 1 1/2 years, right? To be honest, I would be more surprised if that short time would be sufficient to get completely done with opening your leg's energy system and healing big and old/chronic problems. Especially if you're not in a guided retreat where you can focus on that 24/7. According to Bill Bodris descriptions, opening up the legs is one of the tasks that is simply not so easy to do, so it'll take it's time and is normal to appear. I also have some development there, and for me it also takes time, though I'd guess with those Qi-Gong stuff you're doing a more kind of "forceful" approach .. and well, that might work a little bit faster, but being more effective might mean being more painful. I tend to do emptiness meditation, and if I add some slightly forceful stuff it hurts like someone would aim at particular parts of my body with a laser pistol or something. Often not so nice, but well, let it take it's course, it simply has to happen. I would suggest to at all means go on with regular practice, but maybe search for some softer forms if you can't stand the pain, or the pain is getting too intensive. I read that you should forget about your body in such situations, and finally it will be over at some timepoint - but if it's too much for you and becomes a reason for you to drop your practice, maybe you're going to fast at it, or maybe you're pushing yourself and your body too much and should first learn some detachment from your body. Yes, I also have some old injury, though I'm not even soo old (the older you get the higher the probability that you have latent old or chronic issues in your body that have to be cleared out), and that areas are also causing me trouble. Do you have some connection to past masters, buddhas or bodhisattvas whom you could ask for help? Asking human beings about that stuff is always difficult for me as well; but fortunately, if you have the connection, there definitely are non-physical beings and persons existing who are capable of helping you with such issues, sometimes quite directly Hope that helps somewhat, and all the best with your practice! Yascra