Thrice Daily

I'm like to have one shower a week, I believe some of the earlier quote that water does kinda wash away the qi. I mean water is perfect to cleanse most things for fresh use, eg crystals, spaces. Yeah I heard something about this. I keep my showers quite brief. The Chlorine thing though, I heard in swimming pools is not cool. I remember reading someplace that swimming three times a week with all the chlorine is worse than not going swimming at all, when you weigh it up. Gains to Losses. Yeah the Japanese method was like this. The wisdom was in the timing though. The method said, never drink before 2 hours after meal or shorter than one hour before meal. So I'd set my alarm for two hours after eating, drink water then have a one hour break then eat. Sounds excessive but it was highly healing... I also didn't drink anything while eating. It was more power than i ever could of imagined sticking to this every single day.. Good for you mate. I'm the same, for the sake of ceremony though I might partake in something, in moderation and to be part of the experience, Cant build a strong daily practice though if taking stimulants regular. I like the take on it in the Bhagavad Gita "the three Gunas" really cool way to look at that if you've not yet checked it out. Its not Taoist but it's bang on I think generally speaking. I used to read it before I made the decision to stick with the Chinese side (I thought I had to choose at the time lol) Cool Book though, used to read it along with Raja Yoga stuff and Thomas Cleary in my early 20's great stuff that was. I know I think its right, If we must drink it, its better after practice for sure. It helps me stay fasted for most of the day though so, swings and roundabouts. I only have it without milk and sugar so it's def not a food. I don't tend to eat till later in afternoon, suits me best I think. Do you practice fasting mate? I hear cold water can have a bigger effect on increasing dopamine when fasted and caffeinated

I think the downvote is really helpful, it keeps the rapport going. That blue and red yinyang rocks can it gets pushed through?

If you look at a wheel while it is spinning and look at the very centre, the very centre is still. It is the stillness within the movement. I think this is a part of the power of the crucifixion, although this is just my hypothesis... I've been tortured myself, it was extremely difficult to stay calm within the intensity of the experience...

Anyway to get a hold of this document, file downloaded.. and is 0kb unable to open. Kind Regards,

I practice some Ip Man Wing Chun. I did a bit of White Crane when I lived around London and a little FMA , but only heavens six. I like to practice with sticks and empty hand. it’s a great flow and I’ve adapted my Wing Chun to fit inside it and flower out from it in various ways. it’s all I really do, there is a lot in there. So many technical points. But I’m a busy Dad, I don’t have training partners. Now it’s winter I’m back to shadow boxing each day. Or hitting myself with sticks I got a nice tendon changing classic practice I got taught in Taiwan. I’m back to doing that every morning now. in the summer I was doing Iron Shirt Postures , Inner Smile and Six Healing Sounds. I tend to do an hour Qigong/Martial in morning. Weight training for an hour in evening (most days) And then pray at night. I sleep on rock hard floor so I am awake throughout the night and tend to use that time not for practice but worship/gratitude I love training though and miss sparring, What do you get stuck in to Nungers?

I’ve watched some of his stuff, he seems like the real deal. His Bagua certainly looks to be that way too. Looks like he is a big fan of safety features in his practice as well, and his students. Looks like a good egg 👍

It’s awesome that the group is split into sub groups to help reduce this. Some issues are tough nuts to crack though no. Like the rocks that are not shaped with force, but a continual exposure to water (or a cataclysmic upheaval ) Really it sounds like you might have a specific gripe? Is there a specific message that is cheesing you off? One thing I remember about Vippasana , sitting at the front and hearing the teachers answer the questions. Almost every meditator, almost every question, almost every time without fail. Teacher would listen to the problems of the student then say, ”simply return to your sensation” makes me smile now but cheesed me off at first. Most questions answer themselves in their own sheer silence, but not on Daobums 👍

Oh you know I once read something compelling that talked about the weight of the earth relative to the speed of its spin. The writing suggested that if the earth were not Hollow it would not spin the way it does. The maths boggled me, but there was a lot of it. I also remember the idea of the planet originally forming in the spherical shape was due to this insane amount of centrifugal force that kind of spun out the matter which eventually formed the outer layer, leaving a hole at the top and bottom and leaving the inside hollow apart from a floating core inside that would act as a mini sun. It was all quite entertaining to read… I’d love someone who believes it to come on with facts and figures and see it put to the test!!

Re Hot and Cold Liquids… I drink coffee in the morning, a lot of it… I don’t eat for ages in the morning. (I went for years without drinking it, I know it’s not a great bum practice but alas it is my vice) Anyway Coffee cools the body down right. And now winter is practically here I’m going to switch to a warming tea with Ginger In the morning… as I’ve noticed the cold getting in if I sit at the laptop drinking coffee as usual in the other seasons… Does anyone else go through this with coffee or just me?

Yes. That’s totally cool, @ChiDragon has to get behind that. would you support this change @ChiDragon

That’s a cool idea tbf. I’m half with you and half with ChiDragon. for the sake of mental health 😂 IMHO 😆

Right getting back to Christianity for a minute I’d like to ask you to ponder something. With a clear and open mind, trying not to be pulled into past understandings. With a freshness. A beginner’s mind… I’ve got to share this, just around one point. But first let me give a little backdrop to why? You know when you hear a priest or pastor talking about Bible (again I really don’t mean Old Testament here just New Testament) Anyway people talk, lamb of God, dove of peace, died for sins, perfect blood of Christ and it just comes off as ‘eye roll’ ‘fake’ ‘yeah yea’ ‘here we go again’ ‘deluded’ ‘what nonsense’ etc Well I just want to pick one thing, that I decided to look at and picked apart, and since then, I got a trust and respect for that aspect of Christianity that I can’t kick out. I had no understanding before and now it’s transformed. I’m comfortable with it. Specifically, the “perfect blood” thing. Now I know there have been so many sacrifices so many martyrdoms and we could pick any one and pray to it really… if we harkened after the same function,,, but with Jesus it’s a bit different it seems. Remember he was on a ministry and working with the spirit to heal. He was looking after a big group of people 12 is an awesome number for a group, so he had this balance of personal relationship and group responsibility, But more than that, he had this wish that his ministry continue after his death. And I’m not sure for how long he carried it in his mind and plan, but he knew in his mind he would be dying with that wish in mind (that’s the story anyway) to be this conduit between us and the creator (or just being a better person)… The public pain and suffering was extreme (but you could say that happened to loads of people then sure) but it’s the Wish he made, to save others (to some extent at least) through his sacrifice. Sorry I have to speak from my truth here I hope you are still with me. The blood when it’s going through stress of this magnitude completely changes in its composition, I am positive Jesus was an accomplished and powerful mystic and what he was doing in that condition was bizarre, powerful and beyond the comprehension of most people that have ever been tortured… But more than that, his wish actually paid off. People actually told his story, and managed to keep respecting it for 2000 years Listen it could have happened to anyone Wish to save all souls - massive sacrifice - remember me through rituals and prayers But it didn’t happen to anyone did it. In our immediate history and understanding it happened with him… I personally believe that there was a lot more magick formula and understanding Jesus had in what he was doing on this sacrifice. It wasn’t just intense pain and moaning to him, it was his job, it was his work…. And filled with intention. And people still pray to it. I trust this aspect, it’s pretty rare that an opportunity like that would happen and catch on. I know there are others, immaculate conception and resurrection but we can’t talk about it all in one post adequately. And just fire everything off like a machine gun then move on with humour. Now it was just this blood thing that got me. Perfect blood,, scary I had to pick it apart. I thought of sacrifices people made for different purposes, the adrenalin, blood drinking, earthly power all this… the rituals over time in various cults and systems. And tribes. What do you make of this kind of ritual @Nungali? What Christ did was an inversion of this it seems [I'm still young in my understanding probably], The sacrifice wasn’t about gaining earthly power and victory over your enemies etc, I believe he had such an understanding of it , his experience and formula as a teacher in life and death could be held up to the very highest light and still not be destroyed, the very closest to the source. (Some say Jesus is the central point of the angels, perhaps like the still point at the centre of a wheel…) have you ever heard that @NaturaNaturans? Something to do with this perfect blood and the operations of his mind that melded to the experience, his intentions proper… There is a devotion we can create with any material things, forces, gods imagined or real. I get it… We can create a relationship with anything , for a result, or just for the sake of it I guess, social norms, family pressure etc But genuinely this perfect blood thing, and the effectiveness of holding up his sacrifice the way he did, It’s powerful. (I think, do you?) That’s why I believe people refer to Jesus as still being living, why so many still claim to communicate to him and why so many cast out dark forces in his name successfully. The perfect blood for him at the time, was a combination of mind body and spirit in a unified focus with a single goal in mind. (I’m quite sure) It’s humbling to say to least. But I would say that because I trust and respect this aspect so dearly. Why to answer the question @Apech why it’s so important that Christians believe this stuff, “I don’t think it is so important… , I don’t think many bother and they still call themselves Christian” It’s only important when the individual attaches importance to it, otherwise it’s just dumb moment of obedience in saying ‘yeah I believe course I do I’m Christian’ when in that moment Christ is just another guy that died ages ago, big deal… The only way to have a meaningful relationship with anyone is to delve more deeply into it, with trust and respect. But I can try to understand more. I’d love to hear others opinions on the self sacrifice of Jesus, his intentions and the formula intended in what he did. Not just regurgitating old arguments and counter arguments, but picking it apart with their own understanding and a sincerity to the act, perhaps even attaching new meanings and understandings to it that can be communicated and bring us closer to more truths about it. Fresh insights.. And if people know more about the nature and usefulness of blood when it’s in this extreme condition… Those with a deeper understanding of biochemistry, metaphysics and magick than me I’d love to hear from them… I’m sure there is still a lot that modern science has to figure out.

lovely, i've never been but I hear nice things.

Good question, me personally I align with this. I've had to resolve all of my issues with scripture alone, I cannot and will not be told how to think if it hasn't yet made sense to me, I can't accept it. My faith has unrolled more like the early desert fathers I think, in my own little way, and its been confirmed to me step by step through mystical insight in prayer. Solo practice Grace alone Faith alone, yes it makes sense. (but that is just all in me, no community, no service to others etc, the catholic church has been showing me that) I agree with almost all of the Lutheranism apart from that there is no formal exorcism. I'm also open to the more supernatural idea of transubstantiation of bread and wine and the prayer with the saints works, as well as praying to Mary as in catholic church. (these ideas have grown on me due to many reasons over the past few years) My experience of the Catholic Church is of a certain flavour. I watched in the 80's and then the 90's in the UK the church dwindled away, as did the family unit. The community spirit I saw at Church watching my grandfather as a young child in his Sunday best , connecting with the community was no more. I watched as the UK was filled with more unrest, teenage violence, drugs, breakdown of nuclear family etc Then I moved to Poland, the church is still alive here and is organized in the community, does charity for the disabled, for single moms and things, the parishes are active and the people here respect community, its very safe at nigh even in parks, teenage couples hold hands, the groups are not threatening or looking for trouble. The grandmothers pray each day and still care about their family connections deeply when they become grand parents, they still connect, cook soup etc, its old school here... And it works, low crime very safe, good kids. Polite people. Now a lot of people take it for granted here, its all they know. I can see clearly, wow, this is what the positivity of having a strong church system functioning in a community with regular masses can do. I see the connections, and I have to respect it.. So from someone having family I personally want more of it. The priests i have met here are good and kind, they work hard and care and because there is life in the parish they are happy and upbeat, they are not downtrodden and engulfed in fighting a losing battle, they have the support of community. They visit schools , help takes kids on walks. Kids respect them. Its a totally different thing than what I'm used to . Its a caring environment and I'm lucky to see what Christianity can actually offer, when most people are unified in it (72% Polish are Roman Catholic. 25 years ago it was 90%) They still have many of the older observances and prayers around different holidays. Its nice, the kids get to play together have food, it's functionalism. I like functionalism. You know where you are with it, it makes sense. But I'm a Dad so I will say that. I think safe is good, not boring The Catholic Church at the top may well be a different story I don't look there, I pray for them, for all of them. The church at the bottom here still looks good. Not like in the UK. It is forgotten and rotted away. Where are you based?

I'm more into the Christians than the church itself. They say its the human souls that make the mystical body of Christ, not the church, does that make sense? It seems Christians are the only ones standing up to the Lies and Hypocrisy in our times. Tucker Carlson, RFK, Patrick Bet David, Chris Cuomo, Candice Owens, even Russel Brand. The people they try to cancel and that get many death threats, They have my endorsement, those standing up to big food, big pharma, and the military industrial complex etc these are the brave ones. I'm not into Gates and Comilla and Cheney , I think these are more in toe with what you are saying, trying to rewrite truth and push death and destruction, not modern Christians, right here right now...

The catholic church very nearly wasn't here. One of the main reasons I decided to go "all in" in favour, was because of this battle. In 1571 the Ottoman Empire was threatening Europe. The Ottoman fleet was waiting in the Gulf of Patras, ready to attack Rome and other Christian territories and the Christians were seriously outnumbered. Pope Pius V asked everyone to pray the Rosary for victory, believing that prayer could help. During the battle near Greece, the Holy League's smaller fleet managed to defeat the larger Ottoman navy, which was a huge surprise, It's interesting to think about how history could have gone differently if the Ottomans had won. Would it have been better or worse for Europe? The way I see it, if the powers that be, whatever governing force that flows through existence, be in divine Love or the Forever Changing Tao wanted the Church gone it would have been wiped out in this battle. For me there is a reason it wasn't and that reason is enduring, its the reason I decided not to look into becoming Orthodox, because for better or worse, the Catholic church was "Built on Jesus" through Peter as the first Pope, (I personally believe that no matter what the group even an Autocracy, someone needs to have the final say, someone has to make decisions, and the rules can change over the years, it can be alive as such) It could have been wiped out in the 1500's in which case I don't think I would have got so far in my process to become Christian, the outcome of the battle helped me early on begin to dig a little deeper and find out a little more... Faith I suppose. Bit like having a relationship with a person I guess, in the early stages you have to look in the right places don't you, the good aspects of the person. If you look at the bad the relationship can't grow, because there is no trust and respect. There was a time when I would finish relationships because I was looking at the bad aspects and well I ended things. Different people have different relationships right? I tend to look at history for what it was, not what I would like it to have been. Sure I could have probably designed a better situation for Christianity to develop and church, but thats not what happened and boy there were a lot of moving parts. I can only work with what happened, like with a relationship with a person, the person is the person. I either work with it or I don't. Trust and Respect builds different person to person I guess. A lot of the past is shitty, I try to see how the good tallies with the bad (my ideas of good and bad of course) and take it from there seeing how history played out, and the part it plays in my life and who I am. I give thanks and try to keep my eyes open to learn more. What are your thoughts on the Catholic Church @NaturaNaturans

Yeah, this is no mystery to me. Order and Chaos tend to follow one another all the way through history. Here is another perspective on scenarios back then. The tribes that existed before Christianity were most often warring, engaging in raids and internal quarrels. I'm willing to bet the past was as atrocious if not more atrocious to be a part of one of these tribes. Now I'm looking into the past before Christianity I'm finding a lot of violence, warring, blood feuds, i'm still about 50/50 whether it was over all good or bad?? Bit it did happen and there is no denying that. Here are some of the realities that were altered as a result, in real terms... Please don't reply back with more tales of bloodshed, all the tribes were up to that way before Christendom and as I've said in previous posts there are psychopaths and sociopaths in every walk of life. The blood thirstyness of the Romans for Gladiator games, taking the kids to see that no doubt did on going damage to generations seeing all that blood at an early age... Gladly we moved away from this passtime.. Can you guess why? Here are some of the realities and how they were altered... 1. Western Europe Introduction of literacy and education: The spread of Christianity brought written language, literacy, and education to many previously illiterate tribes. Monasteries, churches, and cathedral schools became centers of learning, preserving classical knowledge, and teaching new skills. The development of Latin as a scholarly language unified various tribes under a common intellectual framework. Social welfare: Christian institutions promoted charity and care for the poor, sick, and needy. Monasteries often operated hospitals, orphanages, and shelters, contributing to the rise of organized social welfare systems. Legal systems: The influence of Christian ethics helped shape early European legal codes. The moral principles of justice, mercy, and the sanctity of life helped reform some tribal practices like vendettas or honor killings. Unification: Christianity provided a unifying force in fractured tribal societies. Leaders like Charlemagne in France and King Alfred in England used Christianity to bring together warring tribes and create more cohesive and centralized states. 2. Scandinavia End of human sacrifice and violent customs: The Christianization of the Vikings (Norway, Sweden, Denmark) led to the gradual abandonment of human sacrifices and other violent religious practices. Christian teachings on the value of human life helped reduce some of the more brutal aspects of Viking culture. Legal and moral frameworks: Christianity introduced more structured and ethical legal systems, reducing blood feuds and introducing concepts of justice and forgiveness into law. For example, the Icelandic Althing (parliament) embraced Christianity in the year 1000, ending internal conflict between pagan and Christian factions. Cultural development: Alongside the new faith came new forms of art, literature, and architecture, such as the building of cathedrals and churches, and the creation of Christian manuscripts like the Book of Kells. 3. Ireland Golden Age of Monasticism: Ireland became known for its monastic culture, which played a key role in preserving classical knowledge during the so-called Dark Ages. Irish monks like St. Patrick and Columba spread Christianity across the island and into Scotland, while Irish monasteries became centers of learning and artistic production (e.g., illuminated manuscripts). Social structure: Christianity helped reduce some of the harsh tribal customs, such as clan-based warfare and practices related to slavery. Over time, it influenced a more unified legal system, especially through the Brehon Laws, which began to incorporate Christian ethics. Education and scholarship: Irish monasteries also became renowned for their scholarship and played a key role in the transmission of knowledge across Europe. 4. Eastern Europe Cultural development: In areas like Russia, Ukraine, and Bulgaria, the introduction of Eastern Orthodox Christianity through figures like Cyril and Methodius brought the Cyrillic alphabet, leading to increased literacy and the development of national literature. The Christianization of Kievan Rus under Vladimir the Great in 988 AD marked the beginning of a unified religious and cultural identity. Centralized governance: Christianity often worked hand in hand with the centralization of power. For example, in Bulgaria and Serbia, it supported the rise of powerful Christian kingdoms that integrated Christian teachings into governance and law. Arts and architecture: Christianity led to the development of stunning Byzantine-style architecture, especially in the form of domed churches and religious art like iconography. This religious and cultural transformation left a lasting imprint on Slavic societies. 5. France Clovis and the Franks: The conversion of Clovis, King of the Franks, to Christianity in 496 AD helped unify the Frankish tribes under one Christian rule, providing a foundation for the future Carolingian Empire. The spread of Christianity helped pacify tribal warfare and contributed to the creation of stable kingdoms in Gaul. Support of the arts: Under Christian rule, the arts flourished. Monasteries became hubs of artistic creation, particularly in the form of illuminated manuscripts, religious music, and Gothic architecture. Moral and legal reforms: Christian influence moderated tribal customs, with a focus on Christian virtues such as charity, forgiveness, and the sanctity of marriage. The Church helped introduce reforms against polygamy and infanticide, which were common in some tribes. 6. Germanic Tribes Unification and centralization: The Christianization of the Germanic tribes helped unify them under larger political entities. For example, the Saxons were united under Charlemagne following their conversion, which led to the creation of the Holy Roman Empire. Christianity helped reduce internal tribal conflict by promoting a shared faith. Moral reformation: Christianity replaced some of the more violent aspects of Germanic tribal law, like blood feuds and revenge killings, with Christian concepts of justice, peace, and mercy. Scholarly and cultural growth: Germanic tribes that converted, such as the Franks and the Saxons, saw growth in literacy and education. The monastic system brought schools, libraries, and a more systematic recording of laws, customs, and history. 7. Celtic Tribes Preservation of culture and learning: While Christianity brought new ideas, it also helped preserve much of the Celtic cultural heritage. Celtic Christianity, which developed in Ireland, Scotland, and Wales, maintained some aspects of traditional Celtic art, poetry, and culture while integrating Christian ideas. End of certain violent customs: Some of the tribal warfare and warrior-based culture that dominated Celtic society were softened by Christian teachings of peace, forgiveness, and community. Monastic contributions: Celtic monasticism played a critical role in the preservation of learning during the early medieval period, with monks creating manuscripts and spreading Christian influence across both Ireland and Britain. 8. Spain and Portugal Reunification: Christianity was central to the Reconquista, the process of driving out the Moors and reclaiming Iberia for Christian rule. This was a key factor in the eventual unification of Spain under Ferdinand and Isabella. Cultural synthesis: The Christian kingdoms of Spain and Portugal benefited from interactions with Islamic and Jewish cultures, which led to advancements in art, science, and literature. Christianized Iberia became a center of Renaissance learning. Education and exploration: Christian missionaries from Spain and Portugal were among the first to venture into the New World, setting the stage for global exploration and the spread of Christianity worldwide. Thankyou for reading this part of our shared Christian history, I hope it further colours your perspective of what went down... additionally re it being about 50/50 violent/non violent,,, 1. Western Europe (Franks, Gauls, etc.) Mostly peaceful, though some military influence was present, particularly with leaders like Charlemagne, who used force to convert the Saxons in modern-day Germany. Overall, Christianity spread largely through alliances and royal conversions. 2. Scandinavia (Vikings: Norway, Sweden, Denmark) Mostly violent. The Viking kingdoms often resisted Christianity, and force was used to convert them, particularly by Christian kings like Olaf Tryggvason and Harald Bluetooth. Pagan temples were destroyed, and Christian monarchs imposed the new faith. 3. Ireland Mostly peaceful. The spread of Christianity in Ireland is one of the few examples of relatively peaceful conversion. St. Patrick and later missionaries worked through preaching and establishing monasteries, and Irish kings gradually accepted the new faith. 4. Eastern Europe (Russia, Bulgaria, Ukraine, etc.) Mostly peaceful, though some coercion occurred. Conversion of Kievan Rus under Vladimir the Great involved a top-down approach, with royal decree rather than mass violence. In some cases, however, resistance led to conflict. 5. France (Franks, Gauls) Mostly peaceful, though political motives played a role. Clovis I's conversion was pivotal, and he used his Christian faith to unify the Franks. Charlemagne’s campaigns against the Saxons, however, were more violent in nature. 6. Germanic Tribes (Saxons, Lombards, Goths, etc.) Mostly violent. Tribes like the Saxons resisted Christianity, and conversions were often forced through campaigns by Charlemagne and others. Resistance to Christianization led to wars and mass executions, such as the Massacre of Verden. 7. Celtic Tribes (Scotland, Wales, Ireland) Mostly peaceful. Celtic Christianity spread through missionary work, particularly in Ireland and Scotland, where monasteries played a large role. There was less violent resistance compared to other regions. 8. Spain and Portugal Mostly peaceful, though later tied to violence during the Reconquista. Early conversions were more peaceful, driven by kings and monks. However, the Reconquista involved both religious and political conflict between Christians and Muslims. It seems the more violent conversions were with the tribes that typically historically were already the most warlike and er violent... So it makes sense really doesn't it that there was more fighting, just directed at in coming forces rather than neighbouring lands they were trying to take a piece of land or in-fighting within the same tribe itself or factions of it, very normal stuff by the looks of it for these guys, until later...less afterwards as stated above, would like to hear your thoughts...

Where about's are you from BES?, is it Germany, Scandinavia or? I'm looking at how countries got Christianized, so far it seems about 50/50 violent/non violent...

That’s Dope

The Japanese have an amazing understanding of water don’t they. For years I used Japanese water method, how and when to drink it though. They know what there are doing with Water. I would love to go back to Onsen. How relaxing 😌 Hot Springs is my favourite possible activity!!!

You obviously feel very strongly about the persecution of your religion over the years by the church. it’s hard to answer to it to be honest. For me I don’t know so much, as it spans so many hundreds of years and I really don’t have to insight to comment on it much further. From what I gathered a lot of the persecution happened a long time after true Paganism was not so well known in its pure form (probably a lot down to the church by the sounds I know) I’ll try to understand more. It was more the first few hundred years of Christianity that interested me. Before it become the Roman Catholic Church.. I know a lot of sects sprang up that all had their own ideas about the whole Christ thing and it was a long while after before it became unified as one church and they decided which books to include or leave out etc (human history eh:/) And how dedicated the early Christian’s were, being prepared to die for it. But yes I’d love to comment more on it from more info from your perspective, until then I can’t see it really helping conversing with you directly on the subject… My understanding of Tribes and pre Christian Paganism is vastly limited. I only really understand a little through looking at the migration of Slavic language from Poland way all the way down through the old soviet block and even into Croatia. Like around the time, just bc and just ad so pretty close to Jesus Time. I hear the Slavs even managed to sac a Roman City there in Croatia by dressing up as Roman soldiers to get into the city past the outer wall defences… That must have been a laugh and ballsy. The Language in Croatia still has some Slavic roots, I could understand a bit, I live in Poland for 8 years now, formally a Brit As a result of this conquest I guess the Croatians still have some Slavic speech, but they never advanced on Italy… Just got to Croatia… The Slavs must have had a serious Maraud to get that far… Changing all the language as they went.. So. Hmm. Yeah I’ll have to learn more about the Tribes their origins, migrations, histories and demises to really be able to comment more in a way I would like to with you. I was much more concentrated on what Christianity had to do to stop from being wiped out than what it actually did to get established (my bad) and what the competing forces were at the time, post 600 ad ish. So please excuse my ignorance. I’ll get there. Bit by bit… regarding the white light you talk off and the paths, sounds very much like the Kabbalah idea of Ain Soph Aur. Is that a place where you have ever put any of your focus in study? it’s a bit too old school for me these days… One thing you might help me clarify although I might be slightly off with it, the old pagan ways and understandings names, cycles colours, paths… were they not kinda integrated into mystery schools and secret societies over the years are preserved as parts of magical rituals and rites. I believe at a certain level the church people were into that were they not, in the form of Rosicrucianism, Freemasonry and the like, they guided guided things from behind the scenes , many nestled into the church. I might be wrong here but if you know more about the preservation of paganism perhaps you could shed some light?

I wrote a poem in 2010 called “the way of the vow” based on the Boddhisattva vow… I loved reading the precepts… Can I recommend a film to watch @stirling through the lense of the vows. it’s called “Collateral” with Jamie Fox and Tom Cruise… If you watch it closely you will love it I think. It’s so meticulous in it’s unfolding. With This is mind I'm sorry if I caused offence in my writing I may have been too haphazard transitioning straight to warrior monk from Boddhisattva… watch the film again though please. I implore you. I’ll wait to speak with you more should it be the right time 🙏

It’s partly defending Christianity. But then at it’s core i’m just saying defend Love and Grace. (I wanna specify that’s just my opinion and how I prefer to look at the creator) I'm a fan of other info but I just like to think it can all be condensed to that. Love and Grace. The Lam Rim for example are interesting but in my opinion Superfluous to this… I asked a catholic priest what exactly God is and that was his answer. I was not expecting it… he simply said “Love and Grace” Love is the highest power though as far as I’m concerned, it’s clear when I became a parent Love transcends all else… IMHO,,, anyway I digress My comments have been less about defending faith and more about ‘actual physical reality’. I refer to the Crusades because quite simply without them. The west simply would not of existed as we recognise it. I'm not saying it’s right or wrong but without push back, We would have been totally islamised… Apart from China and Rome/France the Muslim crusades were a very successful operation for a good 400 years, I’m sure you agree. I’m just aware of the language I speak, the values and customs I hold , and that they are not by accident , they came from somewhere… Would we value that, up to you really. I think it’s very sad that the recipients of Christianity can hold this notion that everything would have been alright if it wasn’t for the Christians. I haven’t got a Crystal ball so I can’t say what it would have been like if Christianity hadn’t have spread in the first place. None of us have. Many tribes probably, and would have probably been flattened by another tribe that developed a system as effective as Islamism. Again I’m not saying it’s right or wrong just highly effective. Being a Christian is a choice in every moment and it’s testing it’s not forced on people like the old days It’s more resplendent of the very early Christians that we’re radical for the time and risked pain of death for generations to preserve it… . Like when it comes down to it,,, really would I turn the other cheek, would I completely forgive my enemy… Its a tricky one in a combat life or death scenario isn’t it. if it was just me I’d happily lay down my life. But could I watch my family be slaughtered in front of me peacefully. Probably not… nobodies perfect… that’s the way I see it anyway, I don’t mind coming back again and again, I’m comfortable now not to be a complete pacifist but for a long time before I became a father I was totally cool with the idea of laying down my life. id rather protect my family though and live to fight another day, even if that means coming back again and again, I accept that as my Karma. But Jesus didn’t, I humbly respect that and hold it high while bowing my head low. not for everyone, but I respect it… Thats what it takes is it to be a true Buddhist, Boddhisatva etc maybe that’s what it takes lay down one’s life and not intervene with others karma even they are suffering, I get that part too, I’ve pondered it over and over again while looking at a suffering animal, bird, wasp, even a life. Yep it’s their Karma, I get that but it’s a weak argument when it comes to defending your kid IMHO. To become part of the new tree I guess you gotta do what you gotta do… I get that. Good Luck. But history is cruel… i’d be very interested to know just how peaceful things were before Christianity spread. I’ve not gone that far back in Europe and the Middle East in particular, I’ll try though… Just the last two thousand years has done me, as it seems the most important to get my head around and consequential to our heritage and actual present reality as a civilisation in all we are and all we face… Because I didn’t understand the last 2000 hardly at all it’s all pretty fresh to me… I like discussing points about it, on this Thread called Christianity. Thankyou for your time in reading, I’m looking forward to your well thought out replies and hope to continue learning as I go. re Lao Tzu possibly being inspired by Jews. It wouldn’t surprise me. I was blown away recently to learn that one of the lost tribes may have made their way all the way to Mongolia on one point. Anyone heard that?

"The stillness in stillness is not the real stillness; only when there is stillness in movement does the universal rhythm manifest.” — Bruce Lee

It's alright we wll come back to he kids thing later if you want to.. I'll give a more general answer for what I think about violence and forgiveness. Currently i'm writing a book and this chapter sums it up nicely so I'll share it here as a little sample, there are many chapters its 340 pages ish, called "The Cross and The Tao". Its apt to share a bit... How might the concept of “turning the other cheek” be understood from a Taoist perspective? "Turning the other cheek," a phrase synonymous with non-resistance and profound forgiveness, is one of the most striking teachings of Jesus Christ. Found in the Sermon on the Mount, it challenges the conventional wisdom of retaliation and calls for a radical approach to conflict—one that seeks peace and reconciliation over revenge. But how might this Christian principle resonate with Taoist philosophy, which values harmony, balance, and non-contention? And how does this idea relate to the broader context of Eastern thought, particularly in Buddhism, where non-violence and compassion are also held in high regard? To understand this, we must delve into the nuanced perspectives of Taoism, which, while advocating for peace and non-resistance, also recognizes the complexities of human nature and the necessity, at times, for righteous action. The Principle of Non-Contention: Wu Wei and Yielding Taoist Perspective: In Taoism, the concept of non-contention (wú zhēng 無爭) is central to its philosophy of life. Laozi, the sage behind the Tao Te Ching, writes, "The soft and yielding overcomes the hard and unyielding" (Tao Te Ching, Chapter 76). This principle suggests that strength lies in flexibility and resilience, not in aggression. The Taoist ideal is one of flowing with the natural order of things, avoiding forceful resistance, and allowing the Tao to guide one's actions. The notion of wu wei (無為), often translated as "non-action" or "effortless action," complements this. It teaches that one should act in harmony with the Tao, without striving or forcing outcomes. In this context, turning the other cheek can be seen as an application of wu wei—a deliberate choice to not retaliate, thereby maintaining inner peace and allowing the situation to resolve itself naturally, without escalating violence. Comparative Insight: From a Taoist standpoint, turning the other cheek aligns with the idea of yielding rather than resisting. It’s about maintaining one’s composure and refusing to be dragged into the destructive cycle of revenge. The Taoist sage, much like the Christian who follows Christ’s teachings, would see the wisdom in not allowing anger or pride to dictate their response to aggression. The Yin-Yang of Non-Resistance and Righteous Action Taoist Perspective: While Taoism values non-contention, it does not advocate for passivity in the face of injustice. The concept of yin-yang (陰陽) highlights the balance of opposites within the Tao—dark and light, passive and active, yielding and assertive. Taoist philosophy acknowledges that there are times when action, even forceful action, is necessary to restore balance. Zhuangzi, another great Taoist sage, offers stories that explore this dynamic balance. In one tale, a butcher demonstrates wu wei through the effortless precision with which he carves an ox, using no more force than necessary and allowing the natural lines of the animal’s body to guide his blade. This story illustrates the Taoist ideal of using just enough action to achieve harmony, suggesting that in certain situations, non-resistance must be balanced with appropriate action. Turning the Other Cheek in Taoism: Turning the other cheek, in this light, could be seen not as a blanket prohibition against all forms of resistance, but as a strategic choice. It’s an example of yin—the passive, yielding force—asserting itself in a situation where direct confrontation (yang) would lead to greater harm. But if the situation escalates or if the aggressor continues to disrupt the balance, Taoism leaves room for yang—righteous action—to restore harmony. The Buddhist Influence: Compassion and the Warrior’s Path Buddhist Perspective: Buddhism, closely related to Taoism in its historical development in China, also teaches non-violence (ahimsa) and compassion as core virtues. The Dhammapada, a collection of sayings of the Buddha, advises, "Hatred does not cease by hatred, but only by love; this is the eternal rule" (Dhammapada, Chapter 1, Verse 5). This echoes the sentiment of turning the other cheek, advocating for a response of love and compassion in the face of aggression. However, Buddhism also recognizes that the world is filled with conflict and suffering, and sometimes, the path of the bodhisattva (an enlightened being who seeks to alleviate the suffering of others) involves standing up against injustice. This is where the concept of the warrior monk emerges—a figure who, while committed to the ideals of peace and compassion, trains in martial arts to protect the innocent and uphold righteousness. Warrior Monks: The Shaolin monks, perhaps the most famous of these warrior monks, are a testament to this duality. While deeply rooted in Buddhist and Taoist teachings of non-violence, they also train rigorously in martial arts, not for aggression, but for defense. Their discipline embodies the balance between yin (compassion) and yang (protective action), showing that while peace is the goal, sometimes it must be defended. Taoist Martial Practices: Taoism itself has a rich tradition of martial arts, such as Tai Chi Chuan and Xing Yi Quan. These practices emphasize inner balance, energy cultivation (qi), and the ethical use of force. Just as in Buddhism, Taoist martial arts are not about violence but about mastering oneself and responding to aggression with a calm, centered mind. The Taoist martial artist, much like the warrior monk, is guided by a moral code, using their skills only when necessary to restore harmony and justice. Comparative Insight: The concept of turning the other cheek, when viewed through a Taoist and Buddhist lens, is not about passive surrender to injustice. Rather, it’s a strategic choice, a preference for peace, and a refusal to perpetuate the cycle of violence. However, both traditions recognize that when peace is threatened, there may be a need for righteous action to defend it. This balance reflects the yin-yang principle, where non-resistance and resistance are not opposites, but complementary forces that together maintain the harmony of the Tao. Justice and Injustice: The Taoist Approach to Righteous Action Taoist Perspective on Justice: Justice, in Taoism, is about restoring harmony rather than enforcing laws or exacting retribution. The Taoist sage seeks to resolve conflicts by bringing all parties back into alignment with the Tao. This approach is less about punishment and more about correction and reconciliation. Zhuangzi writes, "The sage is quiet because he is not moved by worldly desires, not because he is filled with ambition" (Zhuangzi, Chapter 1). This quietness, rooted in detachment, suggests a form of justice that does not seek to assert dominance or control but aims to restore balance and harmony. When turning the other cheek, a Taoist might interpret this as an opportunity to remain still and composed, allowing the aggressor to see the futility of their actions and, in doing so, inviting them to correct their imbalance, rather than escalating the conflict and perpetuating a cycle of harm. Righteous Action in Taoism: However, when faced with persistent injustice, Taoism does not demand passivity. The concept of zhengyi (正義), or righteous action, can come into play. Righteous action in Taoism is not about vengeance but about restoring the natural order. If turning the other cheek does not bring peace, the Taoist might choose to act, but in a way that is measured, just, and aligned with the principles of the Tao. Comparative Insight: In Christianity, turning the other cheek is an expression of love and forgiveness, a refusal to engage in the destructive cycle of retribution. In Taoism, it can be seen as an application of non-contention and yielding, a strategy to maintain harmony. However, Taoism also leaves room for righteous action when necessary, balancing yin with yang, and ensuring that justice is served in a way that restores, rather than disrupts, the balance of the Tao. A Harmonious Approach to Conflict When viewed through a Taoist lens, the Christian teaching of turning the other cheek reveals a shared wisdom between East and West—a preference for peace, a recognition of the futility of revenge, and a deep understanding of the power of non-resistance. However, Taoism offers a nuanced perspective, acknowledging the complexities of life and the necessity, at times, for action to restore harmony and justice. Taoist philosophy, with its emphasis on balance, suggests that turning the other cheek is not an absolute rule but a strategic choice—a way to maintain harmony without escalating conflict. Kou Qianzhi, a prominent Taoist reformer, once said, "The Tao is both firm and yielding, strong and gentle. In balance lies the path of the sage." This balance implies that when peace is genuinely threatened and an aggressor persists in their injustice, righteous action may be necessary, much like the warrior monks of Buddhism who act guided by a moral code and a sense of great responsibility. The Christian teaching acknowledges the duality of peace and preparedness, as illustrated by Jesus’ words: "If you don't have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one" (Luke 22:36). This verse underscores that while peace is the ultimate goal, there is also a need to be ready to defend it when necessary. In this context, Jordan Peterson’s interpretation of the phrase "the meek shall inherit the earth" as those who "have swords and know how to use them yet keep them sheathed" taps into a broader understanding of meekness, in the original script. Rather than a mistranslation as some may argue, Peterson's interpretation reflects a deeper, perhaps more nuanced, understanding of what constitutes meekness. True meekness in the biblical sense is not about weakness or passivity; it is about controlled strength. The original meaning involves a sense of power under discipline—being capable of great force but choosing to exercise restraint. Thus, those who are meek are not powerless; instead, they possess the ability to act forcefully but choose the path of peace and humility. This aligns with the earlier teaching that while peace is to be pursued, preparedness for its defense is also crucial. Just as Jesus advised his followers to be ready, the true meek are those who possess strength and the wisdom to use it judiciously. They are capable of wielding a sword but choose to keep it sheathed, embodying the balance between peace and preparedness. Therefore, the inheritance of the earth by the meek is a recognition of the strength that lies in controlled power, in choosing peace when one has the option of force. Thus, the Taoist perspective on turning the other cheek offers a profound and balanced approach to conflict—one that values peace and non-resistance but also understands the importance of justice and the ethical use of force. It is a reminder that while harmony is the goal, achieving it sometimes requires more than just yielding; it requires wisdom, compassion, and the courage to act in alignment with the Tao. What ethical framework emerges when combining the Christian notion of divine will with the Taoist emphasis on natural order? In the grand expanse of spiritual wisdom, Christianity and Taoism both offer profound paths for living in harmony with the greater forces that shape the cosmos. While Christianity speaks of divine will—God’s purposeful plan for creation—Taoism emphasizes the Tao, the natural order that underlies and directs all existence. When these two perspectives are woven together, a unique and powerful ethical framework emerges, one that is deeply rooted in spiritual faith and yet profoundly attuned to the rhythms of nature. This harmonious blend of divine intention and natural flow provides a way of ethical living that is both responsive and guided, both dynamic and serene. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Personally I do do a bit of Kali, but just for the dance of heavens six really and using it as a flowing base to practice a bit of kungfu, nothing dramatic, I'm more likely to tickle an aggressor than strike them. Although as I favour Wing Chun so Whatever Comes, Stays. Forgiveness begins in the heart though not the fists...