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Even in Greek mythology you have gods who come from mount Olympus establishing physical city's on earth. Its exacly the same in celtic mythology you have gods from the northern other world descending to Earth and establishing the four city's of Falias, Gorias, Murias, and Findias up in the Arctic circle. "The Indestructibles (Egyptian ikhemu-sek – literally "the ones not knowing destruction"[1]) was the name given by Ancient Egyptian astronomers to two bright stars which, at that time, could always be seen circling the North Pole.[2] The name is directly related to Egyptian belief in constant North as a portal to heaven for pharaohs" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Indestructibles Also would you say Bal Gangadhar Tilak is a Nazi because he said the story of the veda has an origin up in the Arctic circle ? For that matter are the ancient Greeks Nazis for believing in hyperbola as a physical place, We will then have to label most of the ancient world as Nazis then. As to Zozimus, he must have been aware of the book of Enoch "Thou seest what Azazel hath done, who hath taught all unrighteousness on earth and revealed the eternal secrets which were in heaven, which men were striving to learn." Adam and Eve are banished from the garden of Eden with its four rivers by the elohim (Eden is obviously meru). The fall of man from being a heavenly being with eternal life to an earthly man destined to die on the earth plain. Cain was banished first and he went out to establish the first civilisation, Tubal cain the first human skilled in the knowledge of metals. Its clear some of the early Taoists had as their goal to use the Jindan so that they could visit the gods in the northern other world.

"The Tuatha De Danann were in the northern islands of the world, studying occult lore and sorcery, druidic arts and witchcraft and magical skill, until they surpassed the sages of the pagan arts." The Second Battle of Mag Tuired Plus the word "Tuatha" means North in Irish "These are people of the goddess, Danu. Tuatha refers to a type of people who hail from the north. A magical kind of people who were agriculturally inclined. De points to the word goddess, and Danann refers to the deity, Danu." In addition to this there are tails of Irish sailing North trying to find this land (Voyage of Saint Brendan) Just to show that is in fact the genuine teaching on this matter Not to forget early Taoist text on Alchmey in both the Waidan and Neidan talk about the Taoists desire to travel heavenwards to the little dipper (the northern pole star)to the purple palace to communicate with the gods He talks about how the art of alchemy was inherited from, essentially those who descended into our world from the other world.

The Nazi took there inspiration from Germanic and Celtic mythology because those are the teachings. I care little if people think its nazi to believe it or not, the truth is the truth. The big difference is that in Celtic mythology those Tuatha Dé Danann are not us, none of us are them, they went into the Earth according to Celtic mythology and left our world. Or as the Greeks would say the Titans went into tartarus the underworld. The only genetic remnant of them here on Earth was the royal blood lines and now these are so diluted that they dont even exist. First there were the gods, then the god-kings who were demigods, then the royal blood lines....now nothing, all thoroughly diluted. Nazis instead teach that they are those gods but its clear from celtic mythology that those gods came from a northern other world a place which is here but not physical much like the phantom Islands in Taoist mythology. Its worth reading what the ancient Alchemist Zosimos of Panopolis has to say about the origins of the teachings of Alchemy.

In Celtic mythology we are told that the Northern otherworld is a non physical realm, home to the Celtic gods much like mount Olympus in Greek mythology or mount Meru in Indian mythology. It is a place ot eternal joy, a place where people live to extrema old age free of sickness, a place where there is no night. Some of these gods however descended into our world and took on physical body's. In Irish mythology they are called the thutha de danann. They built a civilisation up in the Arctic circle, four great city's when weather conditions on this planet was different. They were driven out of those lands southward by climate changes which caused expanding ice sheets. They seeded the original royal family's of this Earth. Some of them descended into ancient Greece and their descendent s were known as the Danaans. It was from the descendants of these people that the whole world inherited the esoteric teachings.

If you traced Alchemy right back to its beginning you would end up in the Arctic circle (hyperborea), from there it travelled south into Egypt, China, India, Sumeria, ancient Greece etc etc

The practice of external Alchemy (waidan) is oldest. The waidan practitioner takes the ingredients seals them in a crucible, fires it and when the process is complete he crapes the elixir off the lid. Taking this powder he makes pills with it. So in other words the waidan practitioner starts with physical ingredients and ends with a physical elixir. Waidan never exits the physical level. Alchemy therefore as it was originally understood was a physical art. An alchemist would have been very disappointed if his ingredients were transmuted into qi and went up in smoke as there would be nothing for him to gather upon opening the crucible. Early neidan practitioners were the same, they wanted to make the Jindan. When the Jindan was formed there life was prolonged, sickness was cured and they gained occult powers such as being able to see and communicate with the gods. The idea of refining jing to qi, qi to shen and shen to tao is a later development and is not even neidan but Taoist yoga. Neidan (internal elixir) starts with ingredients and ends with the production of the jindan. It is like waidan it starts on the physical level and ends on the physical level, it is alchemy. Converting jing to qi etc is not neidan or waidan, it is not alchemy but Taoist yoga its goal is not the same.

Sulphur, mercury and salt are three things...both images show the same thing

In western alchemy both the external and internal elixirs are physical things. What is the difference between this image of sun and moon joining in the abdominal area http://36.media.tumblr.com/571274f8f2ba7aecc2c5349b3f55ede0/tumblr_n69mx6EOBa1rtynt1o1_1280.jpg And this image http://xingshenzhuang.ro/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/meditazionetaoista.jpg East and West but both talking about the same thing, only difference is that Western Alchemy does not talk about Dao so its clear dao has nothing to do with what they are searching for.

Jing is not a physical thing, I think you will find it is. Jing is the physical substance from which the neidan tradition proceeds.

Even in Waidan text Jindan is the fine powder scraped from the lid of the crucible, explain how you can scrape the Dao from the lid of a crucible and make pills from it?

You can find most of the western Alchemical text online here http://www.alchemywebsite.com/index.html I would suggest avoiding anything written by Geber or paracelsus as these two are most jealous and coat their teachings in the deepest of obscure language. I think Dr Sigismund Bacstrom is most open on the subject so I would suggest you meditate on the meaning behind his writing. Understand however that nobody in Alchemy speaks openly therefore you must always try to understand what is beneath. You will have to read many text before you start to formulate an idea of what is meant. You must also accept that you may study alchemy for the rest of your life and not fully understand it. Its not that the subject is so complicated rather it is that the knowledge is obscure and when written about heavily encoded. http://www.levity.com/alchemy/bacsproc.html

There may be some confusion here between a Taoist and an Alchemists. A Taoist is searching for the no-thing (the Dao) An Alchemist is searching for something (the Jindan) They are both searching but not for the same thing, many people are searching for different things.

Like I said my main study has been western Alchemy, I have only dabbled in a few Chinese text but its clear the waidan tradition is exactly the same as western alchemy. There are only very small differences but the theory behind it is the same. Western alchemists often had no teacher, they have a few old books they read over and over, they pray to God to enlighten them...and one day they get their wish. Real alchemy is a secret thing anyway, anyone who tells you they will openly teach it doesn't know it.

Haha alchemy is no trivial subject these books are all written in coded language so it took me years to even understand what the hell they were talking about. I have not yet made the elixir but I now understand most of the procedure. I had no one to help, no teacher but that is the path of the alchemist, all these western alchemical text say they had to go through the same lonely journey with only a few old books to help them.

"Empty yourself of everything. Let the mind rest at peace. The ten thousand things rise and fall while the Self watches their return. They grow and flourish and then return to the source. Returning to the source is stillness, which is the way of nature. The way of nature is unchanging. Knowing constancy is insight. Not knowing constancy leads to disaster. Knowing constancy, the mind is open. With an open mind, you will be openhearted. Being openhearted, you will act royally. Being royal, you will attain the divine. Being divine, you will be at one with the Tao. Being at one with the Tao is eternal. And though the body dies, the Tao will never pass away." Above is what is meant to attain the Dao, notice it says "And though the body dies, the Tao will never pass away". The goal of attaining Dao and Alchemy are not the same. The Alchemists goal is to attain the medicine, the jindan, the Taoist wants to attain the emptiness of the dao...two different goals. One is the goal of alchemy the other is the goal of Taoist yoga/meditation.

Well I imagine if you managed to acquire this knowledge you would be a rare and blessed individual anyway, then to chose a few good students and teach it to them would be for the good of other sentient beings. I think ultimately if you are lucky enough to learn something like this you have a responsibility to teach someone, otherwise its just greed.

Exactly, if your teacher looks his/her age he dont know alchemy simple as that. This in fact is the only practical way to quickly discern if a teacher knows anything worth knowing. If your teacher looks old and sick for their age walk away because no matter how nice or wise they seam they simply have not found it.

I have studied alchemy for many years, mostly western alchemy and the old text. Because of that I know that most of these modern books which claim to teach alchemy are pure rubbish, they haven't got a clue. You also have people teaching alchemy classes who dont know what alchemy is themselves. In our modern times alchemists are so rare there are probably not more then a few on the whole planet so your chances of meeting one is practically zero.

Alchemy belongs to another age literally, you wont find them walking around, even if you go to remote mountains to seek them out it is unlikely you will find any, as I said alchemy belongs to another age and today the word is used to describe everything, everyone now is an alchemist because alchemy has become everything.

If you even have basic, basic knowledge on Chinese alchemy or read any book on it the fact that waidan text are older then neidan text is well known to scholars.

When I said they were the same what I meant is that the Jindan the naidan practitioner is trying to brew within himself is a physical thing just like the elixir the waidan practitioner is trying to make. The idea that either of them is trying to convert a physical thing into a non physical thing eg chi is incorrect.

This is my first post here but it is a question that has puzzled me for some time. When thinking of the Dao/Tao do the text refer to it as being “no-thing” or “nothing” Let me explain, 1,Tao as no-thing implies a type of primordial substance which is the building block of all things. It is a substance which has the potential to become anything. We could think of it as formless like flowing water but can take any form and characteristic you can think of. Tao/Dao is therefore a thing but we cant give it characteristics or forms because it has the ability to become anything. 2, Tao as nothing is void, literally a vacuum containing no substance or quality’s therefore we can not ascribe any characteristics to this tao because it has none, it is pure emptiness. Now think about what it means when a person talks about meditating and reaching the dao. If dao to you is the first type then reaching this would mean enlightenment. If dao to you is the second type then as far as I understand it reaching this nothingness would result in your destruction, dissolution into nothingness. My second question would be do you see wuji and dao as the same thing or is wuji nothing whilst dao is no-thing? Its interesting that in the book magus of java John chang said a human can never become/reach wuji.

Ultimately I am only interested in gaining knowledge if it can be put to some practical use so yes all my thoughts around this subject has been to make a map with directions, to know where I am and to know where I’m going (and obviously how to get there). From a young age I have studied esoteric, occult, mystical traditions including some of this has touched on Indian traditions.

Your body is like a car and you (not me) is the driver so yes you have free will, you are not a physical thing in reality. No my higher self is not your higher self, we are only one at the level of dao Yes the true you is realised by using your body as a tool, by turning inwards

Please take time to look at the following image which is taken from an old book on Chinese internal alchemy. What does it represent, I think I know what your all going to say but this could be a disappointing experience for some of you