Ormus

I didnt find this exact text in my version .from where it is: a golden body being like ○ and the dharma body like ○; the original face and the emptiness are like ○, the Heaven-Earth from above to below are like ○. The Heaven-Earth will perish but this ○ would not. Please ask what is this ○? It is the true yin-yang pre-Heavenly qi of all things, my true Xing-Ming, the never ruining true form of a golden saint, not born and not dying prime spirit of the absolute being and non-being Tathagata. This is the end of the 16th step’s oral secrets.’ (Qian-fen old man 千峰老人, 赵避尘 Zhao Bi-chen, 顺一子 Shun Yi-zi)

Thank you.This is from Zhao Bi Chen book on Yoga and Immortality?

Hi Taoist texts, Can you post other oral secrets of (Qian-fen old man 千峰老人, 赵避尘 Zhao Bi-chen, 顺一子 Shun Yi-zi)? Best regards, Ormus

What is the name of this Daoist school? Ormus

Hi Exorcist, I agree with you regarding Wu Liu Pai and and sexual practice dual cultivation,but their Russian members on their forum claim opposite.Mainly that Master Wu recived pair cultivation and Wai Dan laboratory Alchemy but didnt provide any clue for this claims. Ormus

His works is related to Shang Qing Pai and this predates Nei Dan and I consider it proto Nei Dan or early formation stage of Inner Cultication Alchemy as reaction to Taiqing copurs of Wai Dan laboratory Alchemy described by Immortal Master Ge Hong. Ormus

Can you give exact name? Yi Guan Dao is famous and they also practice Nei Dan.I call them neo Daoist groups.There are good works about such groups designated as Salvation society or Redemptive Society and their part are Spirit Writing cult.To me they are interesting because of their claims to have superior method then Nei Dan and for direct communication with Xians. I have big list of such groups and some books about them,and even some details about their work. Maybe I can say more if you provide real name on Chinese and English. To add that in exploring such groups I find details which looks similar or the same as those of Xiao Yao Pai from Indonesia.This I am to post in another tread. Ormus

Immortal Master Lu Dong Bin is also mentioned as transsmiting pair cultivation and Wai Dan(laboratory books) both to ortodox schools and salvation societys-spirit writing cults.Not to mention his famous dealings with prostitues of whom one become Xian. I dont know if some other lineage along Longmen Pai is still operative. Yes I find that Nu Dan is accepted by later Longmen Pai but in reality almost all Nu Dan books come by planchette spirit writing cults in XVIII century and later. Do you think that Huang Yuanji first mix Nanzong and Quanzhen before Li Daochun? Regarding Shuang Xiu,I think that it is mentioned as Xing and Ming in Qing Xiu context and as Yin Yang Xing Ming in pair cultivation and people maybe mix this to positions in later times. Ormus

Thank you for this great post.I didnt see new tread about "golden elixir four hundred words" . Nanzong Pai is also mentioned in relation to pair cultivation and much later schools which share the same or similar teachings like Dong Pai and Xi Pai.It is to be interesting to learn more about this topic in this 3 schools if posible and why Quanzhen rejected it and stay to Qing Xiu. Master Chen Zhixu mention this topic and try to explain how this is diferent from Quanzhen and Chan Buddhism in his time. Ormus

I am not sure that it is all about Light and Xing.There must be Ming Gong and transofrmation of phisical body.How some is to become Di Xian with just working on Mind? Ormus

Interesting OP text.Looks like Xian Tian Gong is actualy Nei Dan practice.If not how Qi Gong or Nei Gong can work with Yuan Qi? Is there some books on English or text about this method and Master Wang? Ormus

My opinion is that Master Jerry books are great and I have some of them. About he mentionig Jesus it is not strange to me because he say that he was on Long Hu Shan with Jesuits for initiation and training.Jesuits have this agenda of infiltration in other religions and esoteric orders but I dont know how Daoist Masters dont see this and dont guard tradition or where are Xians at all? I hear that his books are copy paste from other authors,but still I think in the west we dont have better books. Also I dont think that he put original teachings of Shang Qing Pai and Mao Shan and Longmen Nei Dan in this books. Shang Qing and partly Tian Shi Pai have proto Nei Dan teachings and it is diferent then we know as today Nei Dan like in Longmen Pai. But from all to me was interesting in his CV that he belong to Bo Jia Dao Pai.This school is one for which we know that it started with real Xian and have some unique secret teachings about Immortality.I didnt know that this lineage still exsist today as I hear it merged with Shang Qing and later Tian Shi Pai.For me is interesting question if his Wai Dan come from this school or Ling Bao Pai,because in his books are recognise teachings of Master Ge Hong. Some accuse Jerry that he buy his ordination certificate on Long Hu Shan like other do,but we dont have clues and all looks authentic and official. For me is remarkable how he menaged to be initiated in all this schools and advance to highest levels for such short time. I hope that some of his student here on forum can say to use more about actual work in this particular schools to which Master Jerry belongs. Ormus

Hi Walker, I hear that Immortal Master Huang Yuanji apear in XIX century and have some disciples.I think 5 of them and that this man continued their lineage till today under name Le Yu Tang. Do you consider that Huang Yuanji was Yin Xian Pai or Zhong Pai of Master Li Daochun? Do you know who initiated Master Chen Yingning in Yin Xian Pai and how looks this lineage before him as chain of Masters? I hear that Yin Xian Pai from Chen Yingning exsist in China from Hu Haiya and also in Taiwan. And big suprise is that there are some masters in China and Taiwan today who claim to meet Huang Yuanji. Ormus

Nei Dan work to clean Karma,because when we work with Yuan state of energys Jing,Qi and Shen this is all karmic energys.We bring them to Wuji state and this is what clean karma.One who make Yang Shen means he clean his karma and can see past and future but realise that there is only NOW.Such person make benefit to 9 generations of ancentors and 9 generations of descendants so he clean his family karma in his root.Remember Xian can heal and make wonders by accepting karma of others and to recicle it without harm to himself. Ormus

Good that you are open for Masters and schools from which can be learned something new.I asked this because I got impression that maybe your school change to course after passing of Patriarch of WLP Single Yang. I understand why WLP dont recognise Qianfeng Pai as their descendant because Qianfeng originated in the same time as WLP so it is sort of competiotion. Interesting that you are to include Zheng Yi as they dont teach Nei Dan,bur are religious ritual and masters of magic.Still Shang Qing Pai have good proto-Nei Dan practices. Ormus

I am interested to learn more about methods of Nanzong,Dong,Xi,Yin Xian Pai.Can you give us short presentation like OP? Ormus

I hear that Master Chen met Immortal Huang Yuanji and to learn from him methods of Yin Xian Pai.Also his teachings looks to be little diferent then branch of Yin Xian Pai known as Le Yu Tang. After passing of Hu Haiya I find only Hu Fuchen as Chen student in today China. Ormus

Hi Arkady, why Longmen Pai Master come to teach you Nei Dan when you have Wu Liu Pai - Nei Dan which is as we see advanced? You even have Yu Xian Pai Nei Dan,so I dont know why criticising Longmen or Qianfeng Pai then invite Longment to teach?This is strange to me. Ormus

Why this tread didnt develop further?Maybe is good idea to compare this book with Wu Zhen Pian of Zhang Boduan? Ormus

Daoist Yoga is good book,but translation is not the best and also there is missing chapter not translated at all.So it is to be good that someone translate from original Chinise this book and another one by Zhao Bi Chen which is connected with this one and only for now in French. Zhao Bi Chen was Quanzhen Longmen Pai,Nan Wu Pai,but also belonged to sectarian spirit writing cult and salvation society Zailijiao 在理教. His Masters brothers Liao where Chan Buddhist like Liu Huayang(even Liu mention in his works this brothers and some Bi Chen to as his students) and also Longmen Pai and where part of one lay Daoist group which formed modern Wu Liu Pai and at exact the same time Zhao broke to form his own Qianfeng Xian Tian Pai with addition of other teachings including Chan.Wu Liu Pai evolved in time and now it si diferent in certain aspects but in old formation days it have the same teachings like Qianfeng Pai. Ormus

I have all the books Fabrizio published and this books are must have for all sirious wetsern students of Daoism and Nei Dan. I hope he is to translate more works from Masters of Nanzong Pai and of Master Chen Zhixu,because Quanzhen and particulary Longmen Pai Masters dominate now in the west which present only one option for cultivation,but there is old and true tradition people on the west dont know much. Ormus

This is realy great book.Even as Master Liu was Longmen Pai he use some doctrines from Nanzong Pai and we can say this book describe Higher Vechile understanding of the process.If we accept his standards we need to abandon many Nei dan theorys presented here on this forum and in many schools. I think the only problem is like Master Chen Yingning point out focus to Emptiness and Void which is later Mahayana Buddhism incluence via Chan. Ormus

Yes it is great work.Look also for works of Lower Skarr as he explain how Nei dan is created and how Nanzong Pai as first real Nei Dan school started. In Daoism Nei Dan is first mentioned i Ling Bao Pai works in later VIII century and first ever mention is actualy in Tian Tai Buddhism. Ormus

Is there some back up from bums who attended this seminar? Ormus

This is good work and it clearly give clues how Nei Dan evelved which negate some people here and belive it is older then DDJ and not vice versa. We can see how diferent schools of Nei dan have diferent levels of transsmision.One like Liu I Ming see it as Higher Vechile and more spiritual and Zhao Bi Chen see it more on level of phisiology.Actualy Nei Dan like Wai Dan work on all levels and all bodys of man in the same time and here is perception and awarnes of Masters that make confusion that we are dealing with diferent methods. Nanzong Pai is the oldest and most pure Nei Dan school,and Quanzhen didnt recive full transsmision much later and it is mixed with Buddhism concept which focused them to Emptiness and Void and false path of negation of physical body. Ormus