Ormus

Do you speak about Dayan Qi Gong or Max Kunlun Nei Gong? Ormus

Then they are Immortals(Xian) but to me is strange because Master Max have grey hair and as years pass he is older.How about that? He even claim to have Wai Dan Elixir(Philosopher Stone) so I vonder why he dont ingest it and become younger? Seeker you now say it is Nei Dan.How Yi Gong(Qi Gong) and Nei Gong can be Nei Dan? Real Shen and Tian Xian have specific clues on the body as mark.One is square eyes and it is from me too much and I cant speak further.You decide. Ormus

Is there reference for such practice in classic Nei Dan text? Ormus

What are this other practices? There is old Kunlun Pai of Master Lu Dong Bin but it dont have such methods.Also there is new Kunlun Pai on Taiwan which is mix of Buddhism and Daoism. To mention also that Dayan Qi Gong(Wild Goose) is from real Kunlun Pai and it is totaly diferent then what Max or Jenny teach. Ormus

Thank you Seeker. What are this in Kunlun Nei Gong: 1.Red Dragon; 2.Golden Flower; 3.5 element method? Is there someone who obtain Golden Dragon Body or Yang Shen and can prove this? Ormus

From what I got Master Jenny claim that Yi Gong is from Mao Shan Pai(Shang Qing Pai) and I didnt find clues for this. Them Master Max got from her Yi Gong and made it Kunlun Nei Gong by adding few not connected things again claiming this is Mao Shan Pai like Red Phonix and this I again didnt find in Mao Shan Pai.Flowing Hands I hope can prove this is not part of his school.We can ask Masters Michael Saso,Jeffrey Yuen and also Jerry Alan Johnson regarding this topics because all of them are Shang Qing Pai and its sub-branches like Qing Wei Pai and Yu Qing Pai. What is Red Dragon in Kunlun Nei Gong? What is Golden Flower and is it related to book of Master Lu Dong Bin "Secret of the Golden Flower"? I think that Max got this additional methods from Master Andrew Lum and claim that it is again Mao Shan Pai. Ormus

Can we know who is Lama of Secret Buddhism,what is their lineage and history? Ormus

So according to Xi Pai Masters this book used by Longmen Pai,Qianfeng Pai and maybe Wu Liu Pai(I dont know for them for sure) have big mistakes and is dangerous? What are the remedys and corect practices then? Ormus

Is there someone in Europe who teach authentic Tenaga Dalam(Tridaya)? Ormus

Can some explain what is Yin Yang Gong? Mo Pai I didnt find as Daoist school.There is no clue that it is related to Mo Tzu or Bodhidharma.,except that 72 levels of Mo Pai is maybe similar to some Chan Buddhist Martial Arts from Shaolin. When I see John Chang use Keris this give me more indications that Mo Pai Nei Gong is related to Tenaga Dalam and related tradition. Ormus

Does some need to become Muslim to be initiated in Penjat Silat(Tenaga Dalam)? Ormus

Does someone here can tell us their exprience with Tridaya and Tenaga Dalam or posibly Ilmu Khodam? To me in this category of work belong Mo Pai and Xiao Yao Pai both from Indonesia. Ormus

Is Spontaneous Adjustment Qigong (Zi Dong Tiao Zheng Gong, 自動調整功) the same as Yi Gong? Does all this is considered as Zi Fa Qi Gong? Ormus

Master Wang Li Ping teach Walking Qi Gong and Qi Gong with trees.How someone consider this to be Nei Dan? In real Nei Dan you dont do visualisations and imaginations because this deplete Jing. What is Immortal walking?Is it part of Immortal Tai Chi from Wudang Shan? Ormus

Master Jenny is now Buddhist and not Daoist?How that? What is KAP mentioned in few posts? Can someone explain to me what is Golden Dragon Body and Golden Phoenix Body?Is it the same as Yang Shen or maybe like Diamond Body of Dzhogchen Buddhism? Is Red Phoenix meditation related to Niwan or Xin(heart-mind)? Ormus

Is Kunlun system just new made up of various practices?I find on the forum that it is actualy Yi Gong plus some other additions. From which system come Red Phoenix?Is it related to Flying Phoenix Qi Gong? I didnt find that Shang Qing Pai and its later branch Mao Shan Pai have even something similar.Shang Qing have proto Nei Dan system of inner work but it is totaly diferent . To bring from one school just one method and technique and to teach only this and not complete cant give much resulats and can be dangerous. Ormus

Can some clear to me is at last part of Kunlun system derived from Yi Gong of Master Jenny Lamb? Is Guan Yin Magnetic Qi Gong of Master Chris derived from Kunlun system? Are Pan Gu Shen Gong the same as Guan Yin Magnetic Qi Gong? I explore depply Shang Qing Pai and its su-branches like Mao Shan Pai,Qing Wei Pai and Yu Qing Pai and never I see or read about Red Phonix or Yi Gong.Can someone explain and support how this methods are part of Shang Qing Pai? Ormus

Interesting! Who is Old Guru and what is name of his school?Does he have website? Ormus

I read complete tread about Xiao Yao Pai and in the past other treads related to it. It is no doubt that XYP is interesting school and have interesting methods. Also I have long personal conversations with western students of XYP and Indonesian members and Masters of XYP.After few years I have some picture of it and made my personal reaserch.There are some questions and contraversies which rise I think because of interpretations that are given from western students and their wish to present XYP in the best light and not maybe in clear picture. I see that terminology used evolved by time to. This is not criticism nor attack but my opinion with the best intetions with hope that we can find answers. First I didnt find clues that XYP is part of Zheng Yi.On Long Hu Shan and Taiwan seat of Zheng Yi they dont know for XYP.Even grade structure and titles of XYP is not the same.What is more strange is that XYP dont have Shang Qing on altar but along Tai Shang Lao Jun they have Buddhist and Confucian statues so very sincretistic. XYP have ritual in Temple and use of Talismans,Mantra and Hand seals and I hear have Spirit Lu registers which we can say is like Zheng Yi but I cant be sure on which level. I also didnt find paper in Bai Yun Guan(seat of Quanzhen) which mention XYP,and I speak with Longmen Pai, and San Feng Pai and Wudang Pai on Wudang Shan who also dont know about XYP. Tai Shang Men is clan and this means there are more Pai among them,but I didnt be able to find who are this Pai along XYP who belong to TSM? XYP dont provide its history and lineage which is important.They say this is not important because they are Celestial lineage.Ahhh all are Celestial even Tian Shi Pai,Shang Qing Pai and Zhong Lu Pai....and many others who all give detailed lineage.XYP have Grand Master and other Master initiators so this are real people who initiate and this mean lineage,but they prefere to forgett this and say important is teacher and thus Hu Fa Shen who changed name because before it was called Fu Fak Shen. Regarding Fu Fak Shen I dont belive it is Yang Shen,beacuse this means that there are some 140.000 + Xians who teach.Do you think it is posible? I cant be sure that it is even Yin Shen,but others told me this can be case, which is more probable.I have my personal opinion and this is that on initiation Master activate Shen......precisly Yuan Shen of student and start to move Yuan Qi which we see as movements in Shen Gong. Regarding lineage I think it is not ok to say it is not important,but on first page here to say that Hunag Di recived Dao Yin Shu from Guang Cheng Zi and founded first Temple of XYP......so this imply starting of genealogy.Do you see this contradictions? I look in Daozhang and there is no single mention that Huang Di recived Dao Yin Shu from Guang Cheng Zi.Huang Di recived Wai Dan(laboratory alchemy) and pair sexual cultivation from various Masters.So this can be only oral legend about mythical figures in XYP only. Dao Yin Shu and Yang Sheng are good and Nei Dan for sure have elements of it when it is formed in late VIII century,but Dao Yin Shu and Yang Sheng are Hout Tian and not Xian Tian.I know XYP now(but not before few years) mentioned that DYS is Xian Tian which for me is not true.How some can prove it?Just say it is Xian Tian have no value,vecause Yuan states cant be percepted at all. Also Dao Yin Shu is just basic and start ,and cant be the only practice nor it can made Yang Shen.I belive there must be other practices in higher degrees of XYP which can produce posibly Yang Shen.Is there such practice? Problem is started when western students of XYP try to explain system with Nei Dan terms,but I know that XYP dont teach Nei Dan nor they replenish Jing and Qi.So how is to fuse Yin Shen with Yuan Jing and Yuan Qi precisly if you neglect to replenish it? XYP work on Shen and from Shen go in natural wordly way to Qi and Jing,and we all know what classic say that true way is reversal and not wordly way of manifestation.Working on Shen only with no Yuan Qi to fuse you made just Yin Shen.Yang Shen is made from yang and this yang come from Ming Gong so again contradiction by western members interpretation and I belive Indonesian Masters dont claim that Dao Yin Shu is Xian Tian,nor that XYP work Nei Dan nor that it form Yang Shen.Maybe we can see original books of the school and how they explain its doctrine? Because XYP is manifested in the world in 1970,this time is interesting because in that time also we see Mo Pai who also have similar practices and it also dont show lineage nor history and it is on Indonesia to.What I find interesting is that such practices are more close to Tenaga Dalam(Tridaya) from Indonesia to which is added Daoist history of origin.In modern Indonesia mostly Muslims work Ilmu Khodan and Tenaga Dalam(Tridaya). To better explain how it is similar here I am to post one ritual which I think is pretty similar to XYP initiation ceremony: The Arts Of Soul Awakening (啟靈學) This art of soul awakening is made popular by one of Taiwanese cult religious group in 80’s and perhaps still active today under the disguise of Tantric Buddhism. It parallels the practice of Japanese Dairindo, the Indonesian Tenaga Dalam, the Taoist auto martial arts and some of Chinese Chi Gong exercises; but with some spiritual elements introduced. A word of caution I won’t want to encourage practicing this exercise alone without guidance because without proper supervision, it is extremely easy to be intruded by spirits wandering about. For example, the spirit of a pig may possess the body of the person and the consequence will be pretty bad. Many people gone into troubles and hurt themselves, so be ware. Theory of soul awakening There are many theories concerning this art, the gist of it is that when we are alive; our soul are imprisoned within the body. Our soul could be awaken and released from our body through prayer and the help of higher spiritual forces. Otherwise, this would be quite impossible when a person is still alive. Medias of soul awakening Basically one’s soul can be awakened through 3 intermediaries: · Gods/goddesses · Spirits · Guru Prerequisites · One must be healthy. · One must be kind hearted. · One must be knowledgeable: not follow things blindly. · One must not be too engrossed in supernatural things. · One must be persistent, calm, fair and doing thing step wise. The method It is not difficult to practise soul awakening method; one only has to find a clean and bright place. He/She will need to sit with his/her back straight on a chair and with both hands in clasping/prayer position. After that one only needs to pray for his/her patron gods/goddesses to help. It is also advisable to do a silent rhythm chant such as “o-mi-to-fo” etc. continuously as if in meditation for an hour or so. Some people will feel his/her hands shaking at first and gradually dance or perform martial arts stunts. Proponents say the patron spirits are guiding the practitioners but I would not want to comment. The description sounds easy, but the duration varies actually according to a person to another: it make take few days to six months or even longer to get some reaction. The benefits Benefits to awaken one’s soul: · A healthier body and mind · Obtain psychic powers · Foundation for other higher practices The down side The purpose of soul awakening exercise is to achieve self mastery on one’s soul. However, if one’s mind is not strong and other external spirits took control, then he/she may become a spirit medium instead. Once this situation happens, this person will never be able to spirits from possessing his/her body. The conclusion Soul awakening is not suitable for the superstitious or the weak minded. The person must be able to distinguish what is right or vice versa. Without wisdom, any simple exercises can proof dangerous to the ignorance. This is for now,I have some more opinions and highly interesting findings related to origin of the school its practice and why they belive it is superior to Nei Dan, which I am to post another time. I hope that XYP members are not to get me wrong because I personaly dont have anything against XYP but contrary I am interested in their method which maybe I am to try some day. All the best. Ormus

Buddhist lost Ming Gong and today they dont have complete system.Even Dzogchen Diamond body is not the same as Yang Shen which is everlasting. Physical Immortality is real,just read carefully pre-Nei Dan books from the time of Ge Hong. Master Chen Yingning the best explain why Daoism way of Immortality is suprime in relation to Mahayana Buddhism and their false doctrine of Emptiness. Ormus

Do you have this French translation complete as pdf maybe? Ormus

Immortals stay only if 5 stars hotel as you know,and they need much money for Jade Purity Heaven. Ohhh my...... Ormus

How it is posible that Mak change lineage?No it is one and next years second?This means he actualy founded two lineages. I dont understand the basesis for all this and to which schools he belonged priviously. Ormus

Thare are many Longmen Pai branches today in China.Wudang Shan is one of them.It is the line that produces Wu Liu Pai and Qianfeng Xian Tian Pai. This line recived some unique elements that other Longmen dont have.... First it integrated 5 Dragon cult from time of Fangshi and Shamans which all today call 5 Immortals.It also integrated some of Zheng Yi elements from schools Qing Wei Pai and Shen Xiao Pai,mainly Thunder Rites(Varja). On Wudang it looks that Longmen is clouse with Shang Feng Pai and Xi Pai(western school) known as Yin Xian Pai or You Long Pai. Ormus

Does someone undersstand what is actual Maks lineage? Ormus