Ormus

Again I see many complain about money regarding Wang Li Ping. To me this tread is interesting because it rise some questions about real nature of real Daoist Masters. I find also strange that 3 Masters pop up in the same time and go public,they are: 1.Li Hongzhi(Falun Gong founder); 2.Pang Ming(Zhi Neng Qi Gong founder); 3.Wang Li Ping("Longmen Pai inheritor"). Is it true that they are state project and come from the same source? Is it true that first two got in the trouble when they decide to be indipendent and build huge followers teaching and healing for free,so state decide to make actions? Ormus

In tread it is mentioned that Wang say he is to live 150 years.Then claim that he is Shen or Tian Xian(Immortal).Strange? One another strange occasion is that again some people like David Verdesi is mentioned to have contraversial and not clear role,with implication that it is all about huge sum of dollars. How one Xian find himself in such position? To me it is not clear if he teach Nei Gong or Nei Dan(Jindan Dao),because here and in book title it mention Nei Gong. Ormus

I read two books of Wang Li Ping and they is realy interesting. I dont know why someone who is such Great Master and who have such life and lived childhood as verry poor now ask for such huge sum of dollars.I always belived that it is his western students who ask this because this is bussines of them.We all know how people in China lived till the recent times and what this struggle was,now spiritual Master or Xian must to to ask for big money and depend of rich western students. I dont think he need to teach for free,but to ask such huge sum is sad,not to mention his will to help spreading Daoism and Longmen Pai. I speak with many Masters of Longmen Pai and no one of them confirmed me that Wang is Patriarch or lineage inheritor.He maybe recived lineage from some of the Masters from Lao Shan in private but not from organised school or temple. One big problem is that Wang dont initiate students in lineage but work seminars.How some is to lear Nei Dan and not initiation and not giving Baishi to him?Simply this is not traditional and all here know this. Ling Bao Bi Fa originaly belong to Zhong Lu Pai,and much later is used by other like Longmen Pai or Zhong Pai but is not standard in all Longmen lineages.Also Golden Flower is used by many and not caracteristic part of Longmen.I know that only Jingai Shan line of Longmen used it,but it is diferent as what all know,and it is original because there on their altar Immortal Master Lu Dong Bin transsmited this book via planchette writing,which is like in all spirit cult. Can someone find anyone from Longmen Pai in China and that this person confirm that Wang Li Ping transsmit original Longmen Pai corpus and initiations? I personaly dont have anything against Wang nor his students,but wonder after I read this tread. Ormus

I am reading old treads and reply.I dont hurry.Thank you. Ormus

Real Wai Dan is just copy nature in laboratory,it is not chemistry.

One of the biggest secrets is that real Wai Dan dont use Cinnabar from nature,nor Mercury nor Lead,so there is no poisoning. Like Nei Dan who also dont use Cinnabar,Mercury,Black Lead from nature but Pre Natal Qi in his varius manifestations.

Hi Arnaud, can you post the link for the forum of Da Xuan I acnt find it now? Do you also teach Wai Dan? Ormus

Dear Darren, can you say me more about Nei Dan and Wai Dan syllabus you offer? Is Serges forum still work? Ormus

Thank you I ordered the book. I am interested to know more about Serges Daoist lineag Ba Men Da Xuan because I didnt hear for it before. On his website he mention that he is initiated in few lineages: 1.Kunlun school?Is this modern version of it from Taiwan or related to Spirit writing cult or general reference to Kunlun Shan as origin of Daoism? 2.Ling Bao Pai 3.Longmen Pai 4.Guikan Pai.I never hear for this school and like to learn more about its history? He mention that he recive Tianshi title in all this lines.I dont understand how,because Tianshi is separate school Tian Shi Pai which belong to Zheng Yi and it is not title.Ling Bao Pai belong now to Zheng Yi,but Longmen is separate and part of Quanzhen. I remember he have nice forum where he write how looks his Nei Dan which was to me suprise because he you some terminology which is unique and not present in Nei Dan as we know. Along with his Nei Dan lineage I am interested to learn about his Wai Dan because he say that he inherit lineage of Immortal Master Ge Hong.Is this maybe reference to Ling Bao Pai? Ormus

I propose that this tread start again from basic like history of Yu Xian Pai and Wu Liu Pai.Then biography of famous Masters and Patriarch of the school,then theory of Nei Dan and some indications about practice which we know is secret.We can compare them with other Quanzhen schools like Longmen Pai and later to see how they are related to Zhong Lu tradition ,and if and what they exchanged with Nanzong Pai,Zhong Pai,or maybe even Dong Pai. Discussion later can go in a way to see posible connections and interaction with Zheng Yi and particulary Shang Qing Pai branch known as Qing Wei Pai and Shen Xiao Pai(Thunder path). Ormus

Dear Wu Ming Jen, yes I know.You speak about terminology as used in Nei Dan and I was refering to the oldest tradition of Wai Dan. Ormus

Those some explore more Tenaga Dalam and Ilmu Khodam? Maybe you can find how this is much similar to Xiao Yao Pai and this Buddhist school. Ormus

Can you post as attachments or give links for those pdfs? Immortal Master Ge Hong favored Wai Dan regarding Immortality,but also he acceted solo and paired cultivation methods as good but not so fast and efetive as Wai Dan. Ormus

This are realy great news.So did they tell what is Prima Materia ? If this is true this means they find what is Alkahest. Ormus

This is related to real Alchemy.......Wai Dan in laboratory.And yes it is the same as western Alchemy of Philosopher Stone which is Red in color and like powder.Cinnabar is just code name because this powder looks like Cinnabar in nature.Thos who are not initiated use Cinnabar because they dont know what is Materia Prima.Real Alchemy dont use native Mercury nor Lead this are just code words for Materia Prima in certain stages of transmutation. I see that even Chinese today dont uderstand what Immortal Master Ge Hong write about Wai Dan. Nei Dan comes some 1000 years later,when Wai Dan was occulted,so we speak about spiritual Immortality by producing Yang Shen,and no one speak that actualy Wai Dan give Immortality of the phisical body(Di Xian) which give you time as long as you like to be on earth.When you injest the powder you are fusing Ming and Xing in second and this is great schock. I belived that as Tai Qing Pai is gone that Tian Shi Pai or Ling Bao Pai recived such teachings but I didnt find that today thei know to operate Wai Dan.There are some references about Wai Dan in Shang Qing Pai corupus and also Nanzong Pai, and in Longmen Pai(Jingai Shan lineage). Ormus

This Buddhist school looks like Xiao Yao Pai.Even the date of manifestation to public is the same.Sangling is maybe the same as Hu Fa Shen. Ormus

Hi Sylvain, you are welcomed here. I am also interested in Nanzong Pai of Immortal Master Zhang Boduan and other sub-branches that descent from his main School. If you like we can communicate by mail if you send me mailin private. This school which originate on Tian Tai Shan is actualy oldest Nei Dan school of Jindan Dao.Today I find hard to meet or find any authentic Matser from Nanzong Pai.So I am interested in your work on Master Bai Yu Chan. All the best, Ormus

Dear Apech, as far as I know Master Wangzi Qiao who initiated Master Zhongli Quan, is also known as Eastern Florescences Minog Yang-Donghua Shaoyang Jun or as Imperial Lord of Eastern Florescences-Donghua Dijun).Master Zhongli initiated Master Lu Dong Bin and Master Liu Cao,both of whom initiated Master Zhang Boduan.Boduan recived initiation also from Master Li Haichun(Elder of Qingcheng Shan-Qingchen Zhangren) who has initiated by Lu Dong Bin,Liu Cao and Wang Quan,and I think he is maybe person you look for. Boduan also recived initiation from Master Wang Quan and Xihua Zhenren who was actualy Mistress and her real name was Realized One of Western Florescences. All the best, Ormus

Dear Opendao, Monica Esposito is not just historian she was initiated in Longmen Pai in China.Her work is not just reading the books as she describe some topics which show she was initiate and insider.Books she quote are writen by famous Masters and come from arhives of the school.We can doubt all this but then we can doubt all.I dont say that she is 1000% accurate as I am not initiate of Longmen Pai nor I have chance to read all this original books from archives.Infor about Lu Dongbin his alter and books he transsmited are known facts outside of Jingai Shan. Regarding your comments about relationship of Wai Dan and Nei Dan I agree. All the best, Ormus

Dear Taoist text, how you translate Nei Dan from Chinese to English if it is not Inner Alchemy? Is your real Alchemy maybe Inner work as we find in Shang Qing Pai,Qing Wei Pai and Tian Shi Pai(all from Zheng Yi)? All the best. Ormus

Dear Opendao, info I write is easy to check with Chinese source books mentioned in detail in those studys. My point as Wai Dan initiate is that there is no contradiction beetwen Nei Dan and Wai Dan but that they support each other and are clues for each other.And I find so many clues that Nei Dan Masters write also Wai Dan books.Alchemy is one and work with the same matter.For me it is clear when I read Wu Liu Pai info that they know real Alchemy even if they speak about Nei Dan. The same Immortal Masters transmite both ways by way of spirit writing and this is what is interesting because today many among Orthodox Daoist dont like spirit writing methods and mediumship as false path and way of Shamanism.But how to question when Masters like Lu Dongbin and Zhang Boduan manifest and dicate new book? Particulary is interesting history of Secret of the Golden Flower by Lu Dongbin.There are few diferent versions and first one which is original is transmited in 2 occasions by Lu Dongbin by way of mediumship and later Longmen Pai change some parts and made their version. All the best, Ormus

Dear Opendao, info I write is easy to check with Chinese source books mentioned in detail in those studys. My point as Wai Dan initiate is that there is no contradiction beetwen Nei Dan and Wai Dan but that they support each other and are clues for each other.And I find so many clues that Nei Dan Masters write also Wai Dan books.Alchemy is one and work with the same matter.For me it is clear when I read Wu Liu Pai info that they know real Alchemy even if they speak about Nei Dan. The same Immortal Masters transmite both ways by way of spirit writing and this is what is interesting because today many among Orthodox Daoist dont like spirit writing methods and mediumship as false path and way of Shamanism.But how to question when Masters like Lu Dongbin and Zhang Boduan manifest and dicate new book? Particulary is interesting history of Secret of the Golden Flower by Lu Dongbin.There are few diferent versions and first one which is original is transmited in 2 occasions by Lu Dongbin by way of mediumship and later Longmen Pai change some parts and made their version. All the best, Ormus

Dear all, document about which we are speaking now date from X century which is time of consolidation of Nei Dan teachings in the South in Nanzong Pai school of Immortal Master Zhang Boduan.Immortal Masters Zhongli Quan and Lu Dongbin are central figures not only in Zhong Pai but to all Nei Dan school and particulary to Longmen Pai which is Quanzhen. What is strange is that early Quanzhen have much diferent understanding of self cultivation and some say that they all didnt worked Nei Dan as we know it today and this is well explaned with data and sources in the work of Lowell Skar in his excelent work on Jindan Dao history. How strange is that big reformer of Longmen Pai Master Wang Chongyang totaly refused Nei Dan and Wai Dan and forced his 3 stages Precepts modeled under influence of Chan Buddhism and all this in the time of actualy formation of main Orthodox line of Longmen Pai in Baiyun Guan in Beijing.Some say that this is actualy formation of Longem Pai as organised school in XVI century.Normaly there exsisted older branches like on Hua Shan,Qingchen Shan,Wudang Shan(which later evolved in Wu Liu Pai branch) and the most elitistic on Jingai Shan. To me the most interesting is line from Jingai Shan as there is main altar and temple devoted to Lu Dongbin as he proclaim himself.There Lu transsmited many books and instructions by way of Spirit medium or by his direct manifestation.This is like in Spiritual cults dedicated to him who recive in this way his new works. Jingai branch practice real Nei Dan and have Tantra initiations which monks included from the past when they recived transsmision from Yedaposhe. Why I speak this?Well because of Immortal Master Lu transmited book with instructions about Wai Dan to Masters on Jingai Shan.How then we can see this and in relation to text we are speaking from the first page? All I mentioned here can be found in excelent work of Monica Esposito and her work about history of Longmen Pai.There are so many suprising informations and fact supported by original sources on Chinese from the archives of the Longemn Pai themselfs,facts about real history of Quanzhen in general and much later formation of Longmen Pai and interesting details about Nei Dan and mixing with elements from Buddhism,Hindu Tantra.....etc. I wish you all the best. Ormus

Dear all, I have some questions: 1.What is Maxs Daoisti lineages? I see he mention Mao Shan and reference to Shang Qing Pai and Kunlun Shan.There is Kunlun Pai in China and Taiwan and few Redemption societys and Spirit writing cults under that name so I need clarification. 2.What is Red Phoenix practice? 3.What is Golden Dragon body?Did he see this realisation as Tian Xian level or it is diferent? Thank you in advance. All the best, Ormus

Dear Taoist text, I dont belong to any secret school of Nei Dan or Daoism.I still look for Master and Pai. I hope you know that there are people of Higher Virtue which can realise Jindan in single moment which is direct realisation and is Xing work and Wu Wei. Many of us ordinary people must go gradual work stage by stage in classic Nei Dan which include Ming and Xing and is You Wei and we can say Lesser Virtue.As this is complicated for this we need Master and it is so clear and all real sources say this. All the best, Ormus