Ormus

Dear Jinlian Pai, thank you for reply. So you say that we dont need to work classic Nei Dan and produce Jindan in ourselfs? How to cultivate it directly and can you give structure of your practice? Also where I can read about your school? All the best, Ormus p.s.It is interestint that Quanzhen Daoism and expecialy Longmen Pai have works related to Nei Dan which in their title have Golden Lotus.

Dear Taoist text, yes I have this book but I am not sure that it is complete and also accurate translation.I recive advise to look for better translation. All the best, Ormus

Dear Jinlian Pai,<br /><br />I know the info that you present.My questions in privious mail maybe you didnt read.<br /><br />Huang Di obtained Elixir and Immortality by way of Wai Dan as we can see in Master Ge Hong writings.Much later arise tradition that his methods are related to Nei Dan.<br /><br />I am interested to lear more about your school and lineage,as also methods for attain Golden Immortality body.<br /><br />All the best,<br /><br />Ormus

Dear all, initiation in lineage and reciving transsmision of particular text is KEY.There is nothing from reading or reciting if you dont have oral instructions and explanation of the text,not to mention energetic connection with Past Masters from initiatic chain of the school which is egregore. All the best, Ormus

Dear Taoist text, I like also to see untranslated part of the text to have context about Wai Dan. Text is produced in time when Daoist Masters focused to Nei Dan as Wai Dan initiation is lost or go hidden and there where many fake adepts posing as Wai Dan masters to trick people because of this many die and I understand that this text maybe point to such methods and not real Wai Dan.Still we can see in later times that Nanzong Masters produced some books related to Wai Dan,and how to reconcile this when we know that actualy they started Nei Dan in the form we know today. For me both ways have their value and goals. All the best, Ormus

Dear all, this tread is realy interesting. I think that Opendao give realy good advise and more precise to the point in relation of Building of Foundations.In this regard I think the best text are those of Master Zhang Boduan and Nanzong Pai as it are focused on Ming as important first step. Relating to Yin Gui,what you advise how we can remove them?They look as Incubi and Succubi and Larvae who attach on Aura but also if someone is ill can enter as walk-in. Can Thunder Magic rituals help or using Talismans and Matras? All the best, Ormus

Dear all, Wu Liu Pai looks as realy authentic Jindan tradition.I am not well versed with some Buddhism terms but from what I read on Dao De Centar website about WLP Nei Dan I think it is authentic and I compare it with Wai Dan teachings and they are the same in a way that it can be compared in stages and results.Alchemy is one and one who knows Nei Dan can understand also Wai Dan and vice versa. I hope that someone can describe what are diferences in Nei Dan teachings among Longmen Pai,Wu Liu Pai and Qianfeng Xtiantian Pai? All the best, Ormus

Dear all,<br /><br />this is interesting journal.<br />I got it that this author come from Longmen Pai(Dragon Gate) line of Master Wang Liping.<br />I have some questions:<br />1.Is Master Wang lineage holder and Patriarch of Longmen Pai?<br />2.Did he teach Nei Dan or this is Qi Gong and Nei Gong?<br />3.Why Master Whang offer only seminars and no initiation in lineage?<br /><br />For Exorcist:<br />Can you list a rank of schools in Jindan tradition as they are seen in China?<br /><br />All the best,<br /><br />Ormus

Dear all, this is great tread and I am sorry that it is stop. Opening text of the tread in excellent and belong to Zhong Pai(central school) but it is used among some Quanzhen also and we see in Wu Liu Pai. My opinion is that there is only one way of Nei Dan as this is the case of Wai Dan.Both methods are secret and have writen and oral instructions and you need transsmision from Master in lineage. On the other hand I think we cant speak of only one method in Alchemy because there is also Wai Dan which is used as Way Of Immortality as Master Ge Hong clrealy show. Masters Zhongli Quan and Lu Dongbin are part of "secong and new" generation of Immortals who advocated Nei Dan.All this started with revelations from Shang Qing Pai when Wai Dan go to be more secret,elitistic and rare and literaty formed in the south Nei Dan as more easy,safe and cheaper way for Immortality.Still even in the time of actual formation of Nei Dan as we know it today(time of Master Zhang Boduan) there where Wai Dan initiations and from X to XIV century we can see how Nei Dan changed and evolved and it was not fixed as some like to belive. In XVIII and XIX we find new versions of Inner Alchemy which is not the same as Nei Dan we speak here in this tread and itarised from Chinese Spirit cults and Salvation societys.They all belong to the cult of Lu Dongbin and claim communicattion with him and to recive new books with new instructions regarding Inner Alchemy which according to them are superior to Nei Dan.This is verry interesting story not at all covered in the west but is known in China and Taiwan.This groups dont even claim to be Daoist schools per se,but to have inspiration in Daoism.They also dont claim lineage and ancient history ,just alive and vivid conntact with Immortals who visit them to tech and instruct them. So how we are to know if Immortals decide to transmite at this time some super method and teaching for new humanity and evolution of Spirit? This is know fact in Daoism because Taiqing Pai claim to be superior Wai Dan,then come Shang Qing Pai who claim that now they transsmite even superior method,then after them come Nanzong Pai with only and highest method....and now this new groups. Be carefull there are frauds and fake masters and schools,but we need to check all claims and see clues because Universe and Human evelove and even Immortals evolve. All the best, Ormus

Dear all,<br /><br />yes this is realy interesting and clear.<br />I have all his books except last 3.<br /><br />To me was strange how he menage to be initiated in so many schools of Daoism(now also Buddhism),expecialy both in Zheng Yi(Tian Shi Pai,Shang Qing Pai,Ling Bao Pai) and Quanzhen(Longmen Pai).<br /><br />From his books I got impression that his Inner Alchemy is more like proto-Nei Dan as we find in Shang Qing Pai and diferent then let say Jindan tradition of early Nanzong of Master Zhang Boduan and later Quanzhen.<br /><br />Does some here study under him Nei Dan?<br /><br />All the best,<br /><br />Ormus

Dear all, I see that Master Chen Yingning was Longmen Pai.From what I learn I see that his students where connected with Yin Xian Pai(Hidden Immortal sect) on Taiwan and that he personaly used teachings of Nanzong(Southern school) of Master Zhang Boduan.Can someone provide better information about his initiations in various lineages and is there some of his students or school today? All the best, Ormus

Hi, does Master Chen teach Nei Dan and what is his lineage of privious Masters in Longmen Pai? All the best, Ormus

Dear all, does Bruce teach Nei Dan,and to which school of Daoism he belong? All the best, Ormus

Dear all, I see that most most use Mantak Chia and Jerry Alan Johnson book.Why not try with authentic Daoist Master like Michael Saso and his book Master Zhuang where he mention tongue position. I think that the best position for Elixir work is like Kechari Mudra. All the best, Ormus

What about Dew that descent from Pineal gland and with saliva is digested,and how this is related to Elixir production? All the best, Ormus

Dear all, does someone of you in reality practice Ming Gong in your Nei Dan tradition and can speak about it? All the best, Ormus

Dear Deci Belle, your posts are excellent and I like it. Looks that your work belong to Higher virtue of direct realisation focused on Xing.Maybe other who work gradual method as most Nei Dan do cant understand because all start working first on Ming. My opinion is that Ming is also important as Xing if someone whant to become real Immortal. I see that you mention belonging to Quanzhen and using Chan Buddhism along with it.Can you say to us to which school of Quanzhen you belong? All the best, Ormus

Dear JinlianPai, can you say me exactly to which school you belong and where I can read about it? Innersoundqigong who is old or ancient Qi Gong Master to which you fefer in your posts? I think that we can speak more precisly about Golden Elixir if we turn to Wai Dan in Daoism and what Master Ge Hong write in his books and antologys of Immortals. In another tread about Golden Immortals I mentioned that after Golden Elixri there is secret step and this is Purple Elixir.This is same in Wai Dan and Nei Dan,and I mention that I find one Master who show above him such purple light.Here is his website: http://masteryang.net/home.html All the best, Ormus

I forgott to mention that members of Xiao Yao Pai(Tai Shang Men) claim that their members have golden aura after initiation and initial work. Also I have chance to see photos one Chinese Master of Nei Dan from Australia who have purple lights around and above him. All the best. Ormus

Dear Cozma and Jinlian Pai, you are right about purple-viloet light and Elixir,this exsist as finnal stage and it is secret.It is known also in Wai Dan as finnal Stone after one made Red Stone(Golden Elixir).In Europe laboratory Alchemy tradition is known that Count Saint Germaine produced such purple stone and he also radiated purple light. My opinion is that Golden Immortals and Tian Xians are the same and level above Shen Xian who is under them. Can you post as pdf or other format this text you mentioned: 1.Ling Bao Bi Fa 2.Chao Yuan Lian Qi technique of the Heavenly Immortal cultivation method? Where I can read more about Geng Men Pai? All the best, Ormus

Hello all Daoist, I am new to the forum.Thank you for accepting me. I am interested to read discusions about Wai and Nei Dan as also Magic Daoism. Best regards, Ormus