Satya

I had one of my most profound experiences in 13 years of spiritual investigation at a Mooji intensive. It blew this anxious issue that had been plaguing my thoughts for months, right out the water (without referring to him about it specifically), and after it ended, the walk home was pure now-ness/here-ness. It was my first major Sitori/enlightenment experience I think. Nothing mystical exactly, but just pure now-ness/here-ness, truly, joyous now-ness/here-ness (from previous months of worry); and incredibly depth of presence and bliss, and no real division. I don't know how much was his words, or his presence/energy vibration etc, or whatever, I don't know, but it was beautiful.

I haven't read all the previous posts, but here's my 2 cents on the benefits of nature (personal and global): Natural Environment Nature, re: trees/plants/wilderness, what many refer to as being "out in nature", forests, fields etc, one simple benefit here, from being in these areas seems to me to be OXYGEN, haha. More immediate oxygen and less pollution = good for our bodies, minds, cognition, physical processes, obviously good. Also there's less physical distractions, less things to curb the mind away from now, re: billboards, posters, advertising imagery of all kinds. Also, the noises from cars, lorries, sirens, all those things, even when we "get used to them", I still think they have an effect on us (I think there're other theorists/writings on this too, but I can't be bothered to research it right now). We've got thousands (millions if you include pre-species ancestors) of years of evolutionary wiring/predisposition that's geared towards setting off the fight or flight response, stress hormones/neurotransmitters, stress from VERY LOUD SCARY NOISES. These things set off these sometimes obvious, sometimes barely noticeable reactions, and even if it's minor amounts of stress hormones then they're still there and we're not using them to run or fight, so they stay in our system = stress. Being in nature takes that away and seeming as how stress is so bad for us, this is another reason why nature is good . (the only incidents in which there are scary loud noises in nature are generally when you SHOULD be running and these stress hormones get used up ). Generally you're more alone out in nature/wilderness and this has many benefits. Chemicals Vs Natural Then if we're talking about what's natural, organic stuff, then, simply: we've evolved alongside what's natural. We know what does what. We've a decent test period with this natural stuff, our whole history. However, when it comes to chemicals, we don't, so a lot of it is guess work and this guess work that in most other instances is done in controlled environments for decades before release on the publics is in fact being done to the population, with their exposure to all kinds of chemicals and compounds that in terms of the history of the planet are all quite relatively new, and we don't know what they'll do. Chemicals in house cleaning products, self cleaning products, poisonous chemicals sprayed on food, materials in the toys we give to our kids, toys that they are ever so found of putting in their mouths. For a drug to get cleared for mass use it has to go through a fair few stages of trials. I don't think that these protocols are being applied to many synthetic substances that have unknown effects that are being released into society. Even plastic cups. If something is synthesised, or chemically concentrated then we have not evolved to adapt/to be able to handle it (OR at the very LEAST we have NO idea what the effect of these chemicals on organic things will be). Chemicals are useful in many ways for many things, but, I think it's a no brainer to just completely avoid them when it comes to combining them with natural organic beings/material (that means us/our inner and outer bodies, our fields, our soil, our plants, animals, etc). We SHOULD without a doubt be restricting ALL chemicals to sealed laboratory or factory settings and preventing any environmental/organic contamination by these, as of yet, relatively unknown chemicals. This comes from The Lancet, a peer-reviewed journal: "We postulate that even more neurotoxicants remain undiscovered. To control the pandemic of developmental neurotoxicity, we propose a global prevention strategy. Untested chemicals should not be presumed to be safe to brain development, and chemicals in existing use and all new chemicals must therefore be tested for developmental neurotoxicity." http://www.thelancet.com/journals/laneur/article/PIIS1474-4422(13)70278-3/fulltext#article_upsell I've got nothing against chemicals in a lab or factory setting. It is only introducing them to organic living things, especially when it's A: not necessary, and B: when repercussions are unknown. Technology Double edged sword here + cyclical, as with many things. Tech has made physical life better, less disease, quicker recovery, quicker transportation. It enabled us to do more quicker, but then also provided a million distractions to take us away from what we'd otherwise be doing. Those who are content, at peace have no desire to have a smaller phone, get from A to B quicker (or ultimately have or do anything). If you're always happy/present now, then why would you want to rush from there to there, you're always NOW throughout the journey? Who wants these things? Who's building parts of our world? What are there minds like? Generally, not the completely content individuals. This tech society sort of compounds and begets itself so it moves exponentially in the direction of more outer outer outer outer solutions, etc. It has the potential (and sometimes achieves this potential) of bringing greatness and Truth around the world much faster than would previously have been possible. No walking in the mud barefoot for 3 weeks to meet this mystical master, you can just buy their book online or watch a talk online. Though, is it worth it for all of the other stuff? Balance is key, I think. We've reached a point on earth of amazing technological advance, however the current global issues facing us cannot be solved exclusively, or even mainly, by tech/external/modern. What is required, in my opinion, is more inner work, more of an internal revolution, rather than more and more and more technological solutions to this and that and that. It's like medication for side effects and then medicating the side effects for that side effect medication and so on. We have the resources to resolve most all world problems, it's just power structures and people doing not great things standing in the way of them being resolved. We have all the resources we need, we just need to manage them more effectively. Meditate, less hate, less greed, work with and use what we need, not what we want. Pleasures are obviously important, but over excess has led to a discrete malaise, apathy has come from too much focus on material/tech based pleasures. Conclusion Both useful, but we're at an interesting stage in history here. A good degree of balance is required. It's slowly appearing, but more needs to be done I think.

I was just not doing studying I should have been doing, reading through interviews on here and came across this question and answer with Kosta Danaos. It's pretty much exactly the same question, so it's relevant to this thread. It's not an answer either way, but I thought it would be a decent contribution. More_Pie_Guy, on 27 October 2011 - 07:49 AM, said: 1. The twin goals of "enlightenment" & "immortality" are often listed as the ultimate neidan endgames.. However, "enlightenment" is often described as the transcendence of all duality (including Self)...whereas "immortality" would be the eternal preservation of "Self," no? It seems almost contradictory, but I suppose this "immortal self" that does goes on would be a transcendence of life/death (belonging not quite wholly to either state) as Sambhogakāya? Or no? Answer: Damn, these are good questions! Give that man a cigar. It is no coincidence that George Lucas chose just these archetypes as the foundation of the Jedi and the Sith respectively: the Jedi dissolve into the Universe and become one with it; the Sith endure and promote their own "immortal self". Having studied Buddhism before the MoPai, these are questions that bothered me as well. Then there is the stanza in the Tao Te Ching that states (my translation) "those who retain their center endure, those who die but continue to exist are immortal". I'm afraid I cannot really answer your question - I can offer an opinion , but not an answer. My opinion is that the Mass Unconscious, the Overmind if you will, resides beyond space and time in what the Chinese call yin, and what we today are calling gravity wells and dark matter. The more of our conscious mind that we pour into this Overmind, the more that is retained, until in the end you become a fully-fledged and voting member of the Board of Directors. I think that is what the fuss is about regarding the union of yin and yang. The Buddhist approach, as you know, involves essentially "melting" all the yang chakras so that the knots are freed and one's personality merges with Mind. Which approach is correct? Who knows? I'm afraid I'm not really qualified to offer more of an answer, but thank you for the question - it was a good one.

Ok. No stores with them around here. Also, I'm not used to any kind of deep tissue, so, from what you BKA and various online reviews have said, the original seems like a good bet.

I'm interested by the acupressure mat principle, but a lot of these seem to be made out of ABS and I'm dubious about shoving ABS plastic (that contains styrene, a carcinogen) into my skin. I wonder if one with wooden disks exists, or how hard it would be to make one/have one made? I could be over-thinking it, but also there's a long history of man made compounds that we get exposed to that eventually are found out to be toxic.

I think I'm gonna go with an original for now. I do some muscle work, but as of yet nothing martial. Some seem to say that they use their original after upgrading to the firm, for more sensitive areas for ages afterwards. I'll let you know how I get on, unless I paralyse myself by hitting a spinal nerve from using this roller.

Also, worth adding, another problem with CAM is that a lot of the research isn't stringent enough. There are certain protocols for randomised controlled trials (the gold standard), for example the CONSORT guidelines. Often many procedures aren't done/adhered to properly in a lot of CAM research. There's no double blinding, no appropriate control group, improper/no randomisation procedure, etc. If CAM research wants better recognition then it needs to arguably, not just be equal to mainstream research, but surpass it, so as to avoid criticism. THOUGH, as shown below, I think in some instances it is also just judged too hard, sometimes even improperly. THOUGH, ALSO, I know of at least ONE instance where the statistics/psychometrics and all of the necessary protocols were adhered to properly but some guys from cochrane collaboration came along for a review and improperly/incorrectly denounced some findings from a study on yogic methods for an anxiety disorder, saying that one of the stats approaches was wrong, when in fact it was not. This is an instance which is dodgy, and could be due to censorship, though, it could also just be due to genuine stupidity/ignorance/negligence.

It's getting there. As said above, by and large people are open and people care. Doctors aren't stupid, they may be paradigmatically conditioned, but they're not stupid. They just want to use what works. The only reason that CAM isn't used more is because of (comparative) lack of funds compared to drug companies. Also, another issue is that people are lazy. People want a quick fix. Even if 1000 doctors come out and say: "You can avoid pretty much all chronic and acute problems with diet, meditation and exercise." Then people would rather continue on with sensory pleasure (bad food and sedentary lifestyle watching tv) and then have heart bypass surgery, or medication, than exercise all their lives. There are so many MDs and psychiatrists who are supporting meditation, yoga, qigong, exercise, therapy for mental health, but generally all of these require effort on behalf of the individual, so people tend to avoid them. It's only when people realise that you can only mask over issues (mental AND physical) with medications and never resolve them that they start looking into lifestyle change (exercise, meditation, etc).

I wouldn't say the scientific community. As part of that community I can attest that there are many, a majority, who are not only open to new findings, but they care, that's why they do what they do. Physicists by and large seem to be the best of the bunch, simply as a consequence of their education. Physics is so incredibly bonkers and there are new findings all the time that no self respecting physicist would ever denounce the possibility of a phenomena unless it had been explicitly and repeatedly disproven, if not just for the self evident fact that new findings appear all the time, then for the simple issue of not wanting to go down in history as WRONG (haha); if they denounce something that hasn't been explicitly disproven then there's the possibility that that phenomena could be proven to exist, and then they go down in the history books looking like an idiot. I'd say that, as with most issues, it's due to the mentally ill/pathologically controlling (but as of yet not widely recognised to be problematically so) individuals who have opted for the managerial and censoring (controlling) roles (because anyone passionate about their work generally wants to do that work, and not manage others doing that work; those who crave to control are the only ones [often in in my personal experience] who opt for managing roles). The scientific community is generally pretty open, but those who give the green light for publication, approval, dissemination etc, I think that's where stuff gets filtered out. Also, as both you and spotless have said, there's actually already a lot of stuff out there, but people don't care. They're so pre-occupied with their interpersonal bullshit that they'll only look into parapsychology, alternative health, etc, when faced with death/dying, extreme circumstance.

Just read this ^ . As you can see, there's at least one theory in my above post

I haven't read the previous posts, so, apologies if this has been mentioned, but I just saw the topic and thought I'd chime in. During yoga teacher training we had a medical doctor come in and explain a theory (his theory maybe?) of how the breathless state is, based on our physical and biological laws, possible. The example he gave was that if you have a small room (I think representing our lungs) connected to a larger room (I think representing the outside world) by a small hall (trachea/wind pipe) and some oxygen was removed from the smaller room, then the levels of oxygen would slowly equal out between the two areas, due to some principle that I can't remember the name of, maybe something to do with air pressure equalling out. Similarly, according to him, in the breathless state it's all about lowering metabolism more and more and more (through slowing the breath, yogic posture, calming the body/mind) to a point where the body utilises very little oxygen. So little that sufficient oxygen is brought into the lungs simply from air pressure/equalisation or something (resulting in small amounts of oxygen coming into the lungs). I do not subscribe exclusively to what science can currently explain, if not just for the reason that new discoveries are always being made, but also there has been plenty of verification of phenomena throughout the decades/centuries that the current scientific models could not account for. However, if a physical realm/physical law/scientific explanation CAN be given for something then I always find that interesting, and it's easier to talk about with others, and assimilate into the physical realm/law part of my brain . I think there could be metaphysical/higher dimensional/unseen energetic/phenomena at play in a lot of these phenomena, including the breathless state, I just think that this is also a good explanation.

Haha, great frugal minds think alike (I think frugality is an important precept from at least one Tradition). Do you think that a slightly softer one may retain use for more sensitive areas perhaps? Or maybe a general, quick, whole body acupressure application (as opposed to working out specific knots and tension)? If one becomes accustomed to it and upgrades to the firm?

For anyone who has searched akashic record/field etc and come across this thread and is wondering about resources to access it, I started reading the latest Astral Dynamics by Robert Bruce and, I haven't reached the chapter yet, but it's one of the final chapters in the book, stuff on akashic record and how to access it. As Robert Bruce is generally pretty highly regarded by many, including many reputable/accept no bullshit Taobummers (haha taobummers) then it's reasonable to infer that the techniques are workable/legit. I think they probably just require the pre-requesite of being able to do conscious exit.

I've never used one of these before. Would you recommend the firm or the original? I'm just thinking that if the original gets "too tame" (haha) that i'll have an unusable/neglected original.

Looks perfect. From the writings it seems to be designed for primarily deep tissue/physical body stuff. Has it benefitted clearing energy blockage issues too? Could you give accounts of how it's helped physically and energetically?

"The problem with internet quotes is that you cant always depend on their accuracy." ~ Abraham Lincoln

I get the impression from the reply that you felt patronised and even offended by my post. My apologies if this is the case. You have a fairly low post count and are incredibly new to the forums. The only post of yours that I saw and was responding to was beginning with: "I'm no longer sure exactly what tradition you people study. But it isn't Taoism." and my explanations were just addressing this, with no condescension or malice intended, as this statement gave the impression that you didn't know about the energetic side. So, do you agree with the practices of Neidan then? My post on atheism was not directed at you at all, as is quite clear from the post. To me the post doesn't seem short sighted at all, but, quite comprehensive. I wasn't talking about a "me" and a "you", I was simply positing factual information (re: abrahamic text), alongside logically reasoned analysis and axiomatic conclusions. If someone believes in words as reality, rather than acknowledging that they're just words made up by the mind to describe reality, then that person is more engaged in illusion/delusion than someone who doesn't. In this case, if you were to attempt to quantify it, then you could say that fundamentalist christians are incredibly deluded by abstract thought, atheists who do not question the veracity/veridicality of belief/thought/language/do not question what is True are engaged in a fair amount of delusion/illusion, and that Zen, Advaita Vedanta, Kashmir Shaivism, Buddhist, Christian Gnostic, Sufi and philosophical Taoist (and so on) masters who have reached a kind of critical mass, and who never/incredibly rarely get pulled into believing in abstract thought as being reality itself, are the least identified with illusion. There's no judgement or criticism here, just, to me, axiomatic statements. I'm constantly getting pulled into this, constantly forgetting, but I do have moments where I remember and the illusion is seen through, and they're always very peaceful. Also, I'm not a Buddhist, Taoist, or anything. If anything my reading background is primarily from a Hindu/Vedic/Yogic background, but even that's variable. I just do what works and read what makes sense. Again, I'm not saying anything in a superior/inferior way, and what I'm talking about doesn't require any devolving whatsoever at all; you could say it involves a sort of evolving (also, in however many thousands of years, as a civilisation, we could evolve to state where we use headgear that translates brainwaves into code received by headgear which provides subtle meaning and use that for communication, so, I always say, never say never [admittedly this would still be some kind of language, but, I'm not talking about not using language anyway]). You can utilise words without getting pulled into mistaking them for the reality of the thing you're describing. It's like using a map. Most of us (me included) are so conditioned regarding thought/belief/language that it's like we mistake the map on the piece of paper for the places themselves, when, actually, it's just a map to be used for navigation. "The day you teach the child the name of the bird, the child will never see that bird again." ~ Krishnamurti Also, re: Abrahamic traditions and the concept of self inquiry, Truth and God, these are some nice quotes from a Christian Mystic: “Only the hand that erases can write the true thing.” ― Meister Eckhart “Nothing in all creation is so like God as stillness.” ― Meister Eckhart Reading your previous posts now, it seems we have some similar interests re: what is empirically verified and what comes from these traditions, however, I get the impression that whereas I (engaging in consensus reality) think that there is yet more phenomena that exists that correlates with these traditions that science cannot yet verify due to limited or non existent resources (or we never will be able to, due it's subjective and un-empirical or non-dual/(to the mind)-paradoxical nature), for example subtler energies (we're finding new particles/energy/phenomena all the time), different dimensions, astral/causal bodies, etc; whereas I (regarding consensus reality) think these things, I get the impression that you do not, and that you only believe what science can currently, completely and definitively verify. Is that right?

I agree, self inquiry, Advaita, Non-Dualism, Zen, Truth Talk, etc, is NOT abstract at all, in FACT by its very definition it is the least abstract approach there is, full stop. Everything else requires abstractions, belief, whereas self inquiry consists of challenging ALL belief, ALL thought, ALL abstractions, and seeing through their immateriality, their falseness, and consequently getting rid of them (though, they get rid of themselves). A good book on all of this stuff is "I Am That." by Nisargadatta Maharaj. If you search for "I am that pdf" online then I'm sure there'll be many online versions available, and the physical book isn't very expensive. You can read it from cover to cover or just section/chapter/entry at a time (it's a well used book that's often by my bed rather than on the shelf). ALSO, though these insights, being axiomatic, do not require a lineage (Eckhart Tolle, Jeff Foster, Ramana Mahirishi, just some examples of people waking up by themselves), you Taoist guys seem to love the lineage thing ( ), so, Nisargadatta's work is a good source to go by, because there's a lineage there: http://nisargadatta.org/pages/navnath_sampradaya.html

Jetsuns post on another thread reminded me of an angle to all of this: http://thetaobums.com/topic/35900-hello-atheist-skeptic-open-minded-here/page-2 I guess I need to become better acquainted with Taoist terminology, but, specifically regarding Immortal Practices, to me, the underlying consciousness/soul is inherently immortal and doesn't need development (we might not remember previous lives, but, our essence is the same), and will continue reincarnating until we see through the illusion of separation. I don't yet know enough of the terms to perform an indepth analysis, but, anything believed in, to me, is inherently illusory. Some Kriya Yogis (among others) stated that there are different bodies, physical, astral and causal, but, that enlightenment results in breaking out/through all of them. Enlightenment in Non-Dual, Zen, Dzogchen, Kashmir Shaivist, Buddhist, Advaita traditions, in which all belief is seen through, including belief in the self, seems ultimately more final than developing any additional body/personality/identity with which you live forever with, as, there is ultimately no real you, in terms of personality. All there is is pure awareness, ultimately. Unless there's some subtle nuance in terminology or concept that I'm not yet familiar with, perhaps (as I said in the original post) the form that is enlightened but has no identification with form continues on, not identified to illusion (though, going in circles here, generally, when illusion is seen through, this usually means, from some previous reading and self evident inquiry, that if the illusion of any self is seen through, then, only pure awareness remains, and that pure awareness merges back with pure awareness in a non personified state).

Re: your post, you might find this topic interesting: http://thetaobums.com/topic/35922-how-does-all-of-this-neidanneigongqigongenergy-stuff-relate-to-non-dual-truth-and-enlightenment/ It discusses the differences, similarities, connections and disconnections on/between philosophical Taoism and Energetic Work Taoism. Re: From my brief readings into Taoist scripture years ago, I would have said the same thing, but, Qigong, Neigong, Neidan, Acupuncture, Massage, Herbal Medicine, Traditional Chinese Medicine, many Martial Arts ALL originate from the Taoist world. Yes there's philosophical Taoism, but, there's also Taoist tradition/practice/Taoism that examines the workings of the Universe (you could say consensus reality), in its subtle energetic forms, and describes practices to work with these energies for health and enlightenment. Just like there's Ashtanga Yoga, Kriya Yoga, Hatha Yoga (which all work with energies) and there's Jnana Yoga, Kashmir Shaivism, Advaita Vedanta, which discusses the Non-Dual nature of reality, and is philosophical, and in which the practices involve contemplation and self inquiry, rather than working with energies.

I just thought to add last night, Re specifically: The term atheist is an odd one to me. As with most all things it comes down to language, but, to me, someone saying they don't believe in God is ridiculous, because of the meaning that I (and many others) attribute to the word God. It's understandable that people call themselves atheists as Christianity and a lot of the mainstream Abrahamic religions (rather than their wisdom tradition counterparts, like Kabbalah, Sufism and Gnosis) are often: A: very judgemental, toxic and even violent, and B: (to me) ridiculous in a lot of what they say. For example, that the world is only 1000s of years old, or that God is this deity in human form, or that their omnibenevolent/all-loving God would send tribespeople to hell because they haven't confessed/been-baptised/whatever, even if they hadn't heard of Jesus/Christianity, because they lived isolated from the world, so they weren't ignoring it, but, they literally couldn't know to do these things; that's just bananas to me. Anyway, back to my (and many others') interpretation of what God actually means. Moses describing God's name, he writes that it is: "I Am That, I Am." Which basically translates to consciousness. Pure being. This goes hand in hand with all wisdom traditions (as they all teach the same thing) as being what Truth is, Everything/Nothing, Consciousness. The consciousness/nothingness that witnesses and accommodates and thus concurrently is everything/matter. Just as silence is the ground of all noise. This goes hand in hand with Shiva (consciousness) and Shakti (energy). There are growing theories in mainstream physics that purport that consciousness could be (empirically) the prima materia, the first/prime matter of the universe, or, at least connected. A common example is the observer phenomenon in which the act of our/humans observing matter, alters how that matter behaves (empirically verified); this is one example of the interlink between matter/energy and consciousness. In most wisdom traditions it is said that consciousness/nothingness is immaterial and full of infinite potential. Out of this potential, matter is born/formed (like the big bag, coming form 'nothing'). This, to me, also explains the term that: "God made man in his image." This doesn't mean that God is some anthropomorphised guy in the clouds in those paintings, with a beard and a six pack, who made us to look like we do in our PHYSICAL form, it means that God is Consciousness/Totality, and, we too are Consciousness. Primarily, consciousness is what we are, it is the Self; Consciousness = Being/Existence (we wouldn't know ourselves, and, the cosmos wouldn't know itself if Consciousness in self aware form didn't exist), and we're a part of Totality (and really, when the ego disappears, we become complete Totality/indistinguishable from anything). Being an Atheist actually, to me, requires more belief in illusions and delusions than being Spiritual, in a Non-Dual sense. Zen/Advaita/Philosophical-Taoism/Buddhism/Christian-Gnosis/Kabbalah/Sufism, in their Non-Dual teachings on the Self/Truth, all highlight how the ego is non-existent, and, that there really is no self, that there's just pure awareness. And, it doesn't take any faith or belief to verify this; in 5 minutes of inquiring into this issue you can axiomatically deduce that, in fact, indeed, there is no self/person, really, as we understand it. What most people call "me", or would call themselves, is a bunch of Transient or slightly more enduring (but still transient) thoughts/beliefs, and, no belief can be True/Real, because beliefs/thoughts are made up by the mind. Obviously. Belief/thought, specifically belief IN thought is what separates us from reality. Language/thought/belief, BELIEVED IN, is literally like a buffer from reality that inherently/necessarily separates us. There is What Is, what is happening, and then there's our thoughts/judgements/beliefs about it. All of these things are made up. So, what remains when you see through the illusion of thought/belief? Here/now/being/awareness/consciousness. Pure being. Thoughts and language are useful tools to help navigate (conceptually/mentally and physically/geographically), but as soon as you believe in the labels/names of the things to which you're referring to as being the reality of the things/reality itself, that, to me, is illusion/un-enlightenment. So, an atheist who believes in their thoughts/beliefs/personality/anything is actually more identified and involved with illusions and believes blindly in more stuff than a Non-Dual spiritual person.

Re specifically: Then, most Zen, Buddhist, Advaita Vedanta, Jnana and Neo-Advaita stuff serves this purpose. All works by Eckhart Tolle, Mooji, Adyashanti, Gangaji, Ramana Mahirishi, Nisargadatta Maharaj, A course in miracles, (and more) are self evidently true. The words are axiomatic so, they're inherently rational, and, they require no belief in anything. They are self evident statements. Scientific wouldn't be the right word here exactly, because, science is generally involved in external phenomena, whilst this stuff is to be examined and verified by yourself. However, it does correlate perfectly with a lot of psychological and psychotherapeutic principles. I'm a 'mental health clinician/professional', as well as a psychologist, and though he's not trained in these things, I find Eckhart Tolle's writings to be some of the best maps of the human ego there are. The only thing I don't totally sit with are the 'pain bodies', but, I still think there's a good basis for them too. A new earth by him covers some very interesting topics. Also, a course in miracles is interesting (once you get used to the phraseology), it's a brilliant look at the ego. Additionally, Antony De Mello was an enlightened Jesuit Priest AND a trained Psychologist (and he's funny too). His writings and videos are brilliant. All of this stuff will show YOU and give insights into the human condition, etc. In so doing it will help show you Some pure science based books, both by medical doctors, and both easy reading: Healing without freud or prozac. The brain that changes itself. Also, mindfulness based cognitive therapy materials would be good too (it's used by the UKs national health service), and/or any book on cognitive behavioural therapy (CBT; CBT is pretty much like the basic teachings that all wisdom traditions will teach). If you want factual based information regarding the existence of subtle energies and/or the veracity of the energy practices of wisdom traditions then "Through The Wormhole" is a good documentary series to watch. Latest scientific discoveries discussed, a lot of them empirically prove some of the phenomena that wisdom traditions have been talking about for years. It is often proved that ancient wisdom is correct, and thousands of years ahead of empirical study. Things so far: Meditation/mindfulness: now being incorporated into 3rd wave CBTherapies, as the go to treatments for most mental health problems + pain internationally. Fasting: for years said to be bad by medical community, said to be good by the sages for centuries, now it is actively, openly advised for good health and has been shown to contribute to stem cell development. Jala Neti: A practice done for years in Yogic tradition. Now being recommended for allergies, nasal problems and anosmia (my mums partner was able to smell for the first time in years after doing it). Kalapas: Buddhism noted Kalapas, the smallest bits of matter that blink into and out of existence; saying this thousands of years ago, before any official 'physicists', and or microscopes of any kind. Now it correlates perfectly to quantum physics. Observer phenomenon in general. Life after death in general: consciousness has been shown to be able to exist outside of the body, and, the brain is thought, to, in scientific terms, be a quantum computer. Various experiments on remote viewing. Various verified reports of patients leaving bodies and quoting discussion of medical team verbatim during operation under heavy anesthesia. To see a World in a Grain of Sand And a Heaven in a Wild Flower, Hold Infinity in the palm of your hand And Eternity in an hour. ~ Blake /Basically the whole holographic universe thing has been known for millennia throughout the wisdom traditions, and is now being verified externally/empirically. Telepathy is now gaining an empirical basis in research by neuroscientists, MDs and psychologists. The quantum world is bananas. Physicists tend not to discount any phenomena unless it's been definitively proven wrong. Some things we cannot prove definitively wrong. Also, here are some peer-reviewed studies on people from wisdom traditions, channeling chi/prana/energy: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1353653 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1767800 http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2013/04/130408084858.htm http://www.plosone.org/article/info%3Adoi%2F10.1371%2Fjournal.pone.0058244 http://news.harvard.edu/gazette/2002/04.18/09-tummo.html http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v295/n5846/pdf/295234a0.pdf http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2194593 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22685240 http://www.innerfire.nl/files/can-meditation-influence-ans-hopman.pdf

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The question/subject of psychedelics (specifically plants) for mental health was raised on another thread. I thought it was worth creating a separate thread for, for anyone interested, and, to stay on topic re: commemorations for the great funny man Robin Williams. http://thetaobums.com/topic/35932-robin-williams-dead-at-63/page-2 Psilocybin has been shown to be effective in lots of other areas too. Anxiety, depression. I know some of the psychiatrists who were involved in one of the studies around it. One of them was personally injected with it before going into an fMRI scanner. Lots of other psychedelics (not just plants) too. MDMA, DMT, Ayahuasca (specifically, rather than pure DMT), LSD. Generally they seem incredibly useful for psychotherapeutic work as they help break down barriers in minutes that can otherwise take months; they make the mind/self/perception much more malleable, less rigid, which is self evidently beneficial for therapy and internal work (also, of course, this aspect of them means they can be very dangerous in the wrong settings). You've got the biochemical effects which can be beneficial, the psychological effects, and, the spiritual effects. It'd be interesting to see if in the future, like we have many health professionals trained in alternative medicine overtly, or privately, if we'd similarly ever get psychotherapists who are trained in the psychotherapeutic use of psychedelics, AND in shamanistic skills for their spiritual use. They used to be commonly used in psychotherapy settings, and often to good effect too (there'll always be exceptions). This was before one of the most ignorant, costly, dumbest, insidious wars was ever initiated, by nixon, "the war on drugs." All war is bad of course; protective use of force, and self defence are necessary; generally, war, not so much. If you look at the figures of what has been spent on fighting this war, how long it's been going on, and the victims of it - (who range across all demographics and classes, from the abused unregulated worker in the poppy fields, right up to the upper class heroine user who ODs because of un-standardised dosages, mixed drugs and having a stigmatised illness that has to be hidden) - then you'll see that, though it may seem incredibly innocuous, it is in fact one of the most costly wars on many levels. If you haven't heard of it already then MAPS http://www.maps.org is pretty much THE go to organisation for the modern use of psychedelics for health. Ibogaine IS incredibly interesting. I was contemplating taking it, not for addiction, but to help break anxiety patterns/issues. Though, after a bit of research I came across some studies that discussed how some have died after taking it, days later, from subtle minor heart problems that are seemingly un-detectable before. http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMc0804248 https://wiki.dmt-nexus.me/w/images/d/d8/Fatalities_after_ibogaine_use.pdf http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22458604 If I ever did do it now then I think It'd either be in a clinic where I was monitored for a few days after, as well as during, OR, if I could get the necessary kit myself, and see if any of my friends are trained in life support. This is generally just a response to the quoted post, (and an opening up of the topic), there's a lot of info on it all.

Because this is a big topic ^ , I've started a new thread on it here responding to your post, to open up that topic and to stay on topic here. http://thetaobums.com/topic/35946-psychedelics-for-health-and-healing-psychotherapy-and-shamanism/