Satya

Hello, I am just wondering (if they exist at all) what the specific systems of practice were in Taoism and if there are any specific resources from which to learn them, books or websites that illustrate/explain the practices. I have done some searches but not come up with anything conclusive. I am aware of the existence of Neidan, Qigong, Tai Chi (I have only practices Tai Chi), but am wondering what the specifics are of such practices. Basically, I am looking into adopting a new practice or set of practices and am up for hearing any/all recommendations for books, websites, systems, or, possibly teachers/schools. You can review my previous readings/practices on the lobby. I acknowledge the effectiveness of non-dual teachings, self enquiry (Mooji, Adyashanti, Gangaji, Jeff Foster, Nisargadatta, Ramana), the direct pointing, realising what is always present, but, anxiety problems cause a lot of reactivity for me that is hard to cut through. So, I am hoping/thinking that, in addition to non-dual teachings, of starting a practice (meditation, energy work, etc) where I can hopefully cut through some of the internal noise/dissolve some of the conditioning, or re-wire my brain through a practice and the phenomena known as neuroplasticity, so I can get to a place of abiding silence and I can go deeper with my realisation and self inquiry, or simply just get to a place where I am anxiety free and happy. I am also interested in Chinese/Taoist Healing (mainly for mental health [which still has a physical cause in the brain, so should be no different from 'physical health' healing]). I hope I am posting in the right place. Best Wishes

Yes. All healing, meditation, energy work, ANYTHING, all of these things, if they end up being effective will just enable you to face these issues, reducing either the stress response itself or the reactivity to it, helping you to operate in a "normal" way, compared to how other people would act; correcting whatever personal irrational bias we have. We all have them but some, by their nature, result in affecting day to day activities and thus make it difficult to function. For example: fear of contamination from door knobs Vs fear of elephants (or any *THING* in this example that you're not likely to come across where you live); the former will severely impair functioning, where as the latter will not. They're both equally irrational, and both evoke the same degree of discomfort/anxiety/fear, but, the content of one is more impairing. CBT deals with the issues head on, and, in a way is dealing directly with your Karma. It involves doing/examining and thus habituating to whatever it is that is your irrational bias. In a way, everything else is a secondary approach; CBT, together with hard core self-inquiry Truth talk with yourself, are the only direct approaches. As a result, they're not easy, but, if done, they're the most effective (IMO AND, my experience so far). Some more versed/experienced in the energy work side of things may disagree, but, this is my experience so far.

Just to come back to this. Those are interests, not everything that I intend to practice, and not due to being overwhelmed by the internet (though, of course, comparatively, 300 years ago or so, then, if you were interested in this kinda stuff, then, your path would have been more rigidly set based on geographic location (pros and cons I'm sure). I'm interested in wisdom traditions, and energetic work as a whole, and, especially how they all fit together; just to be clear, this doesn't mean that I'm trying to do all of them. Part of this interest is of a research/academic nature. Of course, doing one method solidly is great (generally), IF you can find a good one. However, in my experience, even when practising one method diligently, I still have problems with anxiety/OCD. This is the only reason why I stopped doing Kriya Yoga, and then AYP. And ties in to my other posted queries: http://thetaobums.com/topic/34642-psychological-issues-and-spiritual-practices-shouldnt-practices-trump-therapymedication/ Whatever I end up sticking with, it will be in combination with some kind of CBT/ERP, as, that is, so far, the only thing that has worked.

Thanks for the contribution Ya Mu. As said above, there're the Daoyin, Meditation and Qigong classes and the Kung Fu movement classes. Apparently those integrate together, and, the first lesson for each one is free. So, I can check out what's involved first hand. In a way, they're practically family. They're a partner of one of my closest friend's (who's practically family) siblings, and, the whole family is like a second family. Them and the sibling go to China regularly to meet with their teacher. They've been doing Kung Fu for decades I think, and, whenever I've gone for TCM treatment, I've always felt great afterwards, and calmed from just talking. I don't know whether it's because of a general popular suspicion about energetic practices that they haven't offered that type of healing as of yet, as opposed to massage and acupuncture. Maybe now they know of my interest in it, they'll be able to energetically remove some of this gunk that is leading to the behaviours/thoughts summarised by the label OCD.-(Ya Mu, seeming as you're an energy working wiz, would it be possible to get into a PM or forum dialogue about resolving any of that?) Man, I wish I was that side of the pond. There seem to be loads of energetic masters over there. You, Chunyi, Ken, Jerry, and so on. Or, maybe there're a similar amount over here, and, along with the rest of the USA, you guys are just better at advertising (friendly joke there).

Thank you . So, would you say for enlightenment, mental health, strengthening body/mind, it would be worthwhile endeavour?

None of my comments are meant to be contrary. I'm genuinely just asking for my own clarification. Ok, this was in a brief text, and, there was a long list of stuff, so, it's probably excusable that the generalisation was made (I'm yet to speak in person with this friend, since my newfound interest in the Taoist/Daoist practice side of things). Also, the person is trained in TCM, massage, acunpuncture and herbology for treatment, and, is teaching Daoist meditation, Daoyin and Qigong separately, so, it could be that they were meaning that all of those things CAN/COULD be taught. That's a good list on it's own though, no doubt . Especially considering my beginner nature in this new endeavour. Enough to keep me occupied for a while. Also, What do you mean by this? Is it not based in D/Taoism? I thought Kung Fu/it was? The fact that it involves Neigong, Weigong, Qigong, Daoyin seems like it uses a lot of Taoist language/practices/principles? Would you still think that it's something worth getting involved in Vitalii? Considering it's an in person teaching (as opposed to the various Taoist and JAJ books and various qigong dvds I'm currently working with)? I plan on still reading/using these materials, but, just thought an in person teacher would be advantageous, especially if they were also helping me with TCM (integrated/holistic practice). My intention is to use it to clear blockages, overcome mental health issues/fear/anxiety (as an adjunct to the proven CBT approach), strengthen body and mind, and, hopefully help lead to Truth/Tao/Enlightenment. I can see advantages in it for a few reasons. Exercise = great for mental health (proven), the social aspect = great for mental health (proven), the consciousness/self inquiry aspect of it = great for mental health (proven), the only thing not yet overtly proven is the energy work aspect of it, but, this seems to be the main advantage proposed by many spiritual traditions in the various practices, and, I think that it is.

I was just searching online for a film with Keanu in, and, typing in 'Keanu Reeves', one of the first things to pop up alongside it is 'Immortal'. http://keanuisimmortal.com I'm 99% posting this as a joke, but, he is in a lot of spiritual, mystical, martial arts roles, haha, and, as it says in the link, especially for hollywood standards, he seems to be a thoroughly nice, calm, peaceful guy.

Hello, I am looking at prospective retreats to go on when I finish this degree (as a little holiday, and maybe to clear a lot of gunk out of my system). There are so many free retreats to go on (which is great), but, I'm just wondering where to go, if anyone has any personal recommendations of schools, locations, organisations, teachers, etc? Generally I just want to go somewhere where I can do some kind of meditation (preferably some kind of mindfunless of breath, but, whatever works), for a long period of time. However, if there are any Taoist/Neidan/Neigong/Qigong retreats that involve meditation, I'd be interested in attending (not so much for Yoga, as, I already know a lot of the language, and I'd like to learn some Taoist terms/techniques, etc). I could perhaps just dedicate the time at home, tell others in the house that I will be silent for a week, turn off my computer/internet for a week, and draw up a timetable of meditation, practice, reading (got a lot of JAJ material to get through) and walks etc. I guess the advantage of a retreat is no distractions. Any thoughts welcome.

Psychological Issues and Spiritual Practices: Shouldn't Practices Trump Therapy/Medication? (This is taken from a previous thread, but [in addition to another thread] I thought this could do with a thread of it's own [i hope it doesn't seem I'm flooding the forum, searched through but couldn't find a similar discussion.) Any thoughts on how spiritual practices work in general and how this relates to mental health would be much appreciated. Taken from: http://thetaobums.com/topic/34480-looking-into-new-practices-for-mental-health-enlightenment-and-then-perhaps-immortality-;-in-woteva-order-formerly-taoist-systems-of-practice/ I agree with finding help, specifically tailored to the problem at hand. But, in addition, here is some story and some thoughts about mental health and spiritual practice: After an initial year (years ago) of aversion to ANY western method (during my spiritual, put your money where your mouth is phase), I have since been in contact with western medicine doctors, therapists, etc for the past few years. No doubt, CBT and medication do work, and seem to have been the only thing that has worked for the severe anxiety (which will teach me to think in black and white "Only spiritual practices should help blah blah, etc")-(mainly the CBT/I believe [and the science points to] that it results in new neural pathways/neuroplasticity/a change in brain structure). What Do Spiritual Practices Do? This makes me wonder about practices in general. Aren't spiritual practices about clearing out the karma/conditioning/habits/attachment to-or-belief in thought-fear-worry-separation/fear/lies/falseness? This is how I have been taught/come to understand energy practices like Kriya Yoga, Tantra, Yoga, etc, that the spinal breathing is clearing obstructions/conditioning/karma out. And, then, self inquiry/meditative practices seem to be about highlighting Truth/True self, sitting/being with True self/stillness and slowly seeing through thought, undoing reactivity and attachment to thought/feeling, becoming less identified with noise and more with silence/stillness/emptiness/nothingness underneath/behind/between/at the birth of the noise, building new neural pathways perhaps/most likely, and in becoming less identified with noise, less noise arises? What Is a Psychological 'Problem'? All a psychological condition is, is an extreme instance, high on the spectrum, of a trait/phenomena that is present in ALL humans: fear, neurosis, depression, psychosis, etc. We all experience these things, but when one area gets out of balance it's labeled pathological, but it's all just noise, and spiritual practices are surely about clearing out this noise/and or attachment to/belief in noise, no? (this isn't typed argumentatively, in case it comes off that way; I'm genuinely asking myself/pondering all of these issues currently). CBT works. I guess CBT is like a forced kind of self inquiry type thing, that focuses on the specific issue at hand. It is very similar to the lower stages of self inquiry. So Why Not Just Do CBT/Therapy? So, you may ask, if CBT works, then why don't you just do that and then once you're sorted get back on spiritual practices? Well, it worked, (CBT and an SSRI [i hate medication, but I was out of options]) I had about 1 month of being fully 'functional'/back to normal compared to how I was when all of this pathological instance of anxiety started, but then it came back. So, I guess I should just keep up with CBT and stay proactive with that (perhaps set myself a weekly CBT reminder practice for life, like a spiritual practice, to keep tabs on myself) but, it's hard, AND, the fact that the issues came back points to me to a more underlying issue perhaps, maybe? I don't know. I'm sure with pro active CBT for years I would hopefully, eventually restructure/rewire my brain so the issues are non existent, but, again, this is difficult, it's very easy to relapse, and, why can't a spiritual practice also do this? Or, at least they should help right? (these are half rhetorical questions). In addition, CBT, for me anyway, to fully work, I need (or at least feel I need and have in the past needed) the help of a physical therapist, to 'bully me' (I joke, but being almost forced in an agreed way is needed) into doing exposures/the CBT work. Self help materials don't seem to be enough. Hence why a spiritual practice to clear out mental gunk is preferable, as, therapy is expensive, and government/NHS support takes ages (I've been waiting for over a year now for an NHS therapist/psychologist, after seeing one initially and it working my sessions ran out). Again, any thoughts on how spiritual practices work in general and how this relates to mental health would be much appreciated. Thank you

GrandmasterP, the pedant in me wants to communicate that it's Mindfulness Based Stress Reduction (not relief; not that it matters exactly, but in the spirit of clarifying terms ).

Would have been the more concise, mature, less argumentative, less hypocritical way to respond. ...... Though, despite:- -these above sentiments still remaining (non intention of argumentation)- -it's quite hypocritical of me to write something that has to have disclaimers that it's not intended to be argumentative and that goes into in-depth detail, which isn't as concise as just providing the wording. So, rather than the above post, here's my simple refined response: OBE (out of body experience) CBT (cognitive behavioural therapy) SSRIs (selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors) DW (DharmaWheel; though I didn't use that one ). Apologies Spotless. I hadn't eaten anything all day when writing that response, and was at a friends getting some work done for university which I was unable to do at home, due to our internet provider messing up and our internet being cut off. Also, at the moment I'm finishing a masters, and am thus in cerebral, neuro, thinky thinky, logical, prove points with debate and reason mode; as all habits beget themselves/cause themselves to grow, this habit of writing in this academic, point proving style seems to have spilled over into my forum writings. Even on this spiritually based, and, arguably, peacefully spirited forum. So, apologies again.

Sincerely no malice. No offence.

Do you mean spinal breathing without prior preparation? If so, out of interest, what preparation would you recommend/would your schools/teachers recommend? Stuff like nadi sodhana, meditation, asanas, yama, niyama, all of the above? In most all schools of Kriya Yoga, and a few other Yogic systems, spinal breathing is one of the first practices that people do, and, I think there are a few Taoist based systems that involve a sort of spinal breathing element quite early on, like spring forest and the small universe, and a lot of other qigong systems using micro cosmic orbit (MCO) very early on. What would you say the averse reactions be from starting it sooner? I personally don't think that it's close to taking LSD (one of the strongest per volume psychedelics on the planet) and speed together. When I've done it (spinal breathing), I've felt general feelings of calm in most instances, and in some rare occasions, feelings of euphoria/bliss afterwards. Unless we're talking about a different kind of spinal breathing that is found in Kriya schools (Kriya Pranayama), Bihar School (Prana Vidya), AYP (spinal breathing), Tantric Kriya Yoga, or MCO.

Hello, I apologise if the acronyms have negatively affected you (sincerely), I've got some explanations following. I had to look through the previous page to find DW, as I hadn't used it. Generally, from writing for academic papers, etc, I of course always provide the original wording before using an abbreviation or acronym. However, the rule is, in some referencing formats, that if it's a commonly used acronym, for example CBT, UK, USA, etc, that full wording is not needed, and CBT (cognitive behavioural therapy), being the dominant therapeutic modality, almost a panacea in the mental health world, is definitely common enough to be well known (or at least incredibly easily found out through an online search), the same goes for SSRIs (selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors) , they are the dominant medication family for most all anxiety disorders, mood/depressive disorders, and even some eating disorders (and I'm sure there are more uses still). This being a spiritually based forum, I would assume that OBE (out of body experience) would be well known enough that it would, in this environment, not require spelling out (and again, a very brief web search will reveal results). Regarding DW, the only place that it is mentioned is here ^, and, one can logically infer/extrapolate from the context and information provided, that, DW is referring to the referenced DharmaWheel forum two spaces below. Lastly, this isn't an academic journal, and, though, I often, out of habit, write full wording, as with all forums that I/all-people, and I'm guessing you to, contribute to, for the sharing of ideas, development of ideas, sharing of information and education of those asking questions, we do so in our free time, unofficially, with no reimbursement, except the joy/satisfaction of helping others, etc (which is no small thing, but still, no financial reimbursement). As time is ultimately our only true resource, giving our time freely is a big deal, so, I think it is forgivable and understandable if someone occasionally doesn't spell out the full wording of (to them, and in some instances to the world) a well known acronym, when, the person who is receiving the information of interest for free, that the other has spent a long time formulating, can very easily, either ask: "What does that mean?" Or, spend their own very brief bit of time looking online for clarification. I am not intending to be argumentative, but to simply to respond to your post, elucidating and providing a reasoned response, to, what, I thought reads/comes off as passive aggressive. "It might actually be helpful to at least once use the full wording prior to a full post with no reference." Though it could be just my perception (and arguably all sensory input is altered slightly by our own conditioning [until we enter into an enlightened state of simply perceiving what is) I don't think it's just me that would think that. I'd find: "What does OBE stand for?" Or: "Could you explain what these acronyms are?", simpler, not passive aggressive and more straight to the point. Again, no malice intended, just explanation/elucidation from my point of view, defending the not so stringent use of language on forums (as, you're referring to the posts not just from me, but from others too). I hope this response doesn't result in any unpleasant/negative thoughts sensations, as it is not intended to, just logical elucidation.

Also, I have recently bought the JAJ Neigong book, so, once I've got my other things done (degree, projects, brain, etc), I'll be sure to post what I think are comparisons between the yogic and taoist systems. One thing from flicking through, and obvious to many probably, most all esoteric energetic systems involve some kind of breathwork that involves the spine/governing channel. Both seem to highlight amrit/the sweet substance that comes after doing practice for so long. And, both mention tongue positions etc. Obviously (IMO), all systems are ultimately teaching the same principles, but, perhaps with different focuses on different areas more than others, and, of course, different language.

Hey horus. Internet is down at my place, so, just briefly responding to posts/emails, etc, at a friends house (hence longish time to reply): To save going off topic on this thread, if you are interested, I've answered the question of what 'brain issues', here: http://thetaobums.com/topic/34642-psychological-issues-and-spiritual-practices-shouldnt-practices-trump-therapymedication/page-2

You/Horus asked about what 'brain issues' I wanted to fix on another thread, and, not wanting to take that one off track, and, considering this one already exists, I am elucidating the general mechanisms behind the issues I want to resolve. Also, for any of you enlightened/clever/woteva folks out there, understanding the mechanisms might provide the opportunity to suggest additional resolutions (though, from extensive research of my own, I'm yet to come across anything that works, in principle or practice, better than CBT/ERP, but I'm willing to hear thoughts/suggestions [whilst I await for support to become available through the NHS]). The issues, are anxiety brain issues. Generally, a combination of over estimation of risk, over-thinking and, to be incredibly general, I think it comes down to a lack of trust in the Tao/God/Brahman, that I need to check/stop things from happening, ensure they don't, before they do (for my body avoiding the possibility of infection, consuming foreign objects, contact with dangerous toxic chemicals; for my possessions; ensuring that my tech doesn't get damaged, etc). The answer, to just surrender, trust, etc, is SIMPLE, but NOT easy. A key difference. Neurologically, the dominant theory is that it's due to faulty connections between the cingulate gyrus, caudate nucleus, and orbital frontal cortex (could go into more detail, but, very briefly, the brain continues to create feelings of anxiety even after a task/problem has been resolved, so, you don't feel as if the task has been done/resolved; hence repeated checking, etc). Summarised by the label, OCD; but of course with any anxiety disorder, there is also a general underlying anxiety too (in addition to all of the comorbid issues that you get with all mental health issues). Really, CBT/ERP psychotherapy works (sort of, targeted/specific self inquiry; you can read about theories in my other threads), and has worked before, but, limited budget for NHS in uk means that I've been waiting a LONG time to be seen again. It's irritating, as, all people will highlight; those with OCD are logical, reasoning, and often high functioning individuals in all other aspects of their lives, and they/we/I know that I overestimate risk/that the problems are not really problems, but the OCD is what makes problems that do not exist appear to, but, because OCD works through sending FEELINGS of fear, it overrides the higher thinking centres of the brain in the moment you are dealing with something that triggers OCD (blood (or something that looks like it), chemicals, whatever, OCD manifests in a million different ways), so that, no matter how rationally you think, and even if you know there's not a problem, you FEEL like there is, and that causes you to start to THINK that there is/doubt your own thinking. We have a brain inside our brain, the reptilian brain/limbic system. We've evolved for these more primitive emotion/feeling parts of the brain to dominate/override higher thinking, for purposes of mating/reproduction, and survival (fear ensured that we were alert to noises/stimuli that warned of attack = those that checked more, were more high strung, those that checked their cave entrance for predators, that they had enough food, etc, those people survived whilst the more care free often died out, hence the genetic/DNA lines that carry predispositions toward OCD). It's thoroughly unpleasant, irritating, and, as an otherwise rational, logical, reasoning (and, hopefully this doesn't come off as arrogant in any way, but) I think reasonably intelligent individual, it's embarrassing. But, like anything, it's all about re-establishing HABIT. Through CBT/ERP you basically, in a graded way, expose yourself to stimuli that evokes OCD response, so, eventually, you HABITUATE (exactly like how they treat phobias; though OCD is a different beast altogether in it's presentation, as new fears/obsessions can arise anytime, unlike phobias), to the stimuli, and no longer respond to it with compulsions. It's hard work, having to expose yourself to what evokes fear in you the most (everyday for therapy to work), so, understandably many don't even engage in therapy (what would you say to someone telling you to go and do [insert what scares you absolutely shitless the most in the world] every single day, sometimes even twice), and, this is why therapists are needed; the principles of overcoming it are simple, but, you need the therapist to prompt/encourage, almost force you (but with love and compassion) to do that which you fear, without responding to it with a safety behaviour/compulsion. So, like I said, the methods to overcome it are simple, but, certainly NOT easy.

Internets out atm, just at a friends and catching up on emails, so, can't be long, but, a fellow Taobum PMd me with this link: http://www.schoolofsufiteaching.org/qal/sufism.html saying that they could potentially clarify the logistics of the practices. Got lots to do, but when it's done, unless someone provides answers here, I'll be looking into it, and will be sure to post any answers I find.

Hello, I just thought, as JAJ resources are so popular here, I would bring it to everyones' attention that the Neigong book is available at discounted price, for the next 2 days, until friday. http://www.redwingbooks.com/sku/DaoAlcNeiWai I've no affiliation with redwingbooks, or JAJ (apart from us all being a manifestation of Brahman/Tao), just thought some might appreciate making a little saving.

So, I bought a copy, it arrived, a lot of content, plenty to work with (also serendipitously came across a family friend who trains in traditional mantis kung fu who practices neigong, neidan, qigong, all that good Taoist stuff, I'm planning a meeting with him soon). One question for others who've also got a copy, does your book smell really nice? Haha. I can't recognise the scent, it doesn't appear to be perfumed or anything, but, the actual book itself has an amazing aroma. I don't know if it's just that the storage room at redwing books has incense burning or something, just wondered if people who had bought from elsewhere experienced the same phenomena. I think it's Chunyi Lin who says in one of spring forest audio sessions, about calling on a/the Masters energy, and you'll know when it's arrived/worked when a pleasant aroma fills the air. Initially when I hear stuff like that my new age aversion knee jerk reaction kicks in and calls 'bullshit', but Chunyi is legit, and there is so much para-phenomena that I've experienced and that's documented elsewhere, that, that reaction is lessening and lessening all the time (though, I still think it's good to retain to some degree, to ensure gullibility doesn't take over from overt skepticism: The saying: Open your mind, but not so much that your brain falls out). Anyway, all this from a nice smelling book. Just wondering if JAJ could have blessed/endowed it with his mega Taoist Immortal energy or something. Or it's simply just a nice smelling book. Thoughts anyone?

Yeah it is! Most welcome. Yeah, from memory, in many documentaries and through popular media I've often seen people dancing, stood in circles (with some on the inside), but, either none, or not many actually dancing, moving in a circle. Have you got any links/resources/books to suggest that cover the logistics of the practice? Where to go to experience it? Who practices it? Why they practice it? How to do it? I think the closest thing I've come across is something in Michael Harner's 'The Way of the Shaman'. I THINK (I'll have to find it) he talks about australian Aborigines doing some kind of practice like it.

This contains all of the TM techniques, for free!!!: http://minet.org/mantras.html Yay! Gatito beat me to the http://minet.org site post, but this page, specifically, has all of the techniques. The relaxation response stuff is great. I'm always for taking apart techniques, especially ones that cost so much, are so exclusive and leaning towards the cultish. There's a guy with a site who talks about how TM has a specific quality: http://www.truthabouttm.org/truth/TMResearch/ComparisonofTechniques/index.cfm It's hard to know. TM institutes are well known for performing LOADS of research themselves (biased), and are often accused in academic circles in altering data. Mantra meditation (even without initiation or doing specific stuff with corresponding deities) is certainly effective. Many yogic and other schools, traditions etc teach mantra meditation (Bihar/Satyananda, all Kriya schools, sometimes in Kashmir Shaivism, Spring Forest Qigong uses Om, the healing sounds, AYP, and more I'm sure). I personally lean towards the idea that Mantras are generally more powerful than secular 'Mantras' as in clinical meditation, or relaxation response. A lot of data says otherwise, but, they'd need to do a big, long study to really reveal that kinda stuff. There are some troublesome articles about/around the TM movement, and it's founder. Spreading relaxation/meditation techniques is great, but, when you've set up your own 'state' in a 1st world country from it (GCWP), with it's own currency, whilst there are still plenty of developing countries suffering from poverty and starvation, then, maybe there's something wrong. It's claimed that the GCWP is for helping the world, etc, but, maybe there's too much spending on nice buildings, etc, and not enough on actually helping (unless someone can show me some evidence to the contrary). In one way, I guess selling techniques is one of the only ways for such a meditation organisation to make money, and consequently use that money to do good. So, in that sense, high prices (if people can pay) isn't entirely unreasonable, IF the money was going to good causes. I don't know if it is.

Most welcome. Yeah. I don't know why I didn't look into this side of things before. Probably too much to learn with just the Yogic stuff in the beginning, and, my first meditation group (when I was really young), didn't cover much Taoist stuff (especially when compared to Yogic/Indian stuff); some Tao Te Ching/Philosophy, etc, but, nothing on technique. Probably, as BK Frantzis highlights, british colonisation of India opened up channels of communication for Yogic methods, and, there wasn't really a Taoist/Chinese equivalent. I've got the stevens text too. Good book indeed. I was also initiated into a school of Kriya, by a Kriya Master. Mixed feelings about the whole thing, and I don't like the idea of secrecy. I think it served a purpose in olden times, for example to protect yourself from being tortured/killed as a which/practitioner of black magic, but, not so much these days. Secrecy provides shadows in which unmonitored wrongdoings can occur. Whilst the Stevens book is a good practice manual, the Nityananda book covers HUGE amounts of information on the workings/logistics/processes involved in Yogic stuff in general, but, specifically, in Kriya Yoga. Again, I haven't read that much, finishing a degree at the moment, but, it's on my to do list. Thank you for the offer, but, at the moment I'm working on too many other things (masters degree, fixing my brain, some other side projects). Also, I'm not currently practising Kriya. At the moment I'm doing some simple breath work, mindfulness of breath meditation, kind of following Wallace: 'Attention Revolution', for mindfulness meditation, and then, energy stuff wise, I'm doing Spring Forest (when I remember). That's not to say I wouldn't be interested in the future. . I ordered JAJs Neigong book whilst it was on sale, so, that'll be some interesting reading once I've got all this other stuff done; and, when I've finished my overarching projects (mainly the degree), I PLAN (though, "the best laid plans of mice and men often go astray") on studying (and practising) the Taoist side of things a bit more, and hopefully, discovering parallels and recording spiritual synonyms, etc. I'll be sharing results when I do this, and obviously any contributions of thoughts/ideas/experiences would be great. I think there might be some other Kriya/Taoist people here. I remember seeing some stuff when going through the forums. When I've got a free min I'll have a think and see if I can remember who.

Example of a great sage, who woke up without belonging to a lineage or tradition, without having a teacher and without communicating with immortals, and who is, as far as I am aware, undisputed regarding the authenticity of his awakening: Ramana Maharshi I acknowledge that, as with learning anything, a teacher/master/guide can be incredibly beneficial, especially with systems that involve energy work, but, just wanted to highlight at least one example of a great Master who woke up all by himself. Really, it's all just a manifestation of One anyway, so, in the Non-Dual sense, an altar is as much Brahman/Tao as a worm is; in another way, Tao/Brahman/Life/God teaches us through multifarious different methods, channels, beings and manifestations. You can learn a lesson leading towards enlightenment from watching an animal. You can have an epiphany whilst listening to two people shouting in the street. A part of you can awaken from watching a film. You can wake up because of having a disease. So, every thing is/can be a teacher, if you listen; and, also, at the same there is no teacher/you/earth/masters/universe. To Antares, with love: I don't know why exactly you favour tradition, lineage, etc, so much, even at the cost of writing off potentially useful practices (I don't know because you haven't told me), but, I'll make a guess based on how I used to think, and how I still do sometimes (verging on unconscious prejudices, re: anything seemingly 'new age'). There're a LOT of teachers out there. There're a LOT of systems, books, individuals purporting to be 'masters', saying they have the 'answers' etc. Only following/reading/listening to 'authentic lineage' sources, and dismissing all non 'authentic lineage' sources, helps to limit the sheer volume of sources to investigate, making it easier to sort through all of these sources. As time is really our only resource, this isn't the worst approach to have in life, and means that you may save yourself from spending this resource on materials/people/teachers who are not very good. It's a sensible time saver. However, as noted above, and in countless other examples, you can get bad teachers who say that they are 'authentic', that come from an 'authentic lineage'. When it comes to people and organisations, I don't think there are any absolutes, and, dismissing anything that isn't, according to your beliefs, from an 'authentic lineage', though it may seem like a good approach in general, limits the channels through which the Tao/God/Brahman can reach you/teach you. Just a thought.

As a former and occasional Kriyaban, and someone with a new interest in Taoist methods, I'd be interested to here about this too. Sorry that I don't have any answers to contribute. THOUGH, 'Kriya Yoga The Science of Life Force by Swami Nityananda Giri', is a book that details the energetic workings behind/involved with Kriya Yoga in an unprecedented way. If you can work out the Yogic/Taoist equivalents of terminology, or if you already know them, then, this book could give you a good idea about how the two (Kriya and Neigong/Neidan) might interact. I haven't read much of it (I've got a lot of other work to do ATM), but, from a brief look, it covers a lot of areas.