Satya

From practising kriya yoga, raja yoga, and various yogic traditions, as a default legs-crossed sitting position, I tend to always sit in siddhasana. I know this is the Tao lounge + Taoist discussion section, but, siddhasana is a pretty common sitting position in various traditions/schools.

It's on my list I've seen clips etc. If you like that, then I think you'd LOVE 'Into The Wormhole' (mentioned in my list). Modern scientific take on ESP, Soul, God, Reality, Life, Death. So interesting.

I just thought I'd add to this. I think I watch too much stuff, but due to illness I've been stuck inside. Obviously, it's better to practice than to watch things, but, if you're having a break, hanging out with friends/family, or just want to watch something to inspire you, then it's good to have inspirational, enlightening viewings (i think). I'm going to put an @ in line with all of the things that I think are best, indicating that: 'this is where it's at/@.' Obviously, more @'s mean it's even better, but, at least one means I think it's definitely worth a watch and is amazing; more than one means that I think it's amazing AND relevant and a 'MUST' watch. Spiritually Inclined/Enlightening/Mystical Films: I heart Huckabees. Never seen anything else like it. Non Dual, philosophical, existential comedy with dustin hoffman. What more could you want? It's brilliant. @@@ Fight Club (Let that which does not matter, truly slide; know you are going to die; you are not your khakis) @@@ Waking Life (brilliant docu/film about lucid dreaming and enlightenment/philosophy) @ American Beauty (giving up material life/surrender) @@@ Avatar (tribal/nature importance/beauty) Big Fish (nice and mystical, a bit of yama and niyama) Green Mile (beautiful, mystical, super natural) @@ K-Pax (alien visitor? ) Kung Fu Hustle (for those into the martial side; funny and beautiful) @ Magnolia (about the human condition; life, death, forgiveness) @ Me and You and Everyone We Know (it's weird, I don't know why I've recommended it, good though) Mr Nobody (about life, death, destiny) One Flew Over The Cuckoos Nest (breaking out of maya's prison) Moby Dick (killing the white whale/illusion) Pleasantville (new paradigms) Synechdoche New York (can't recommend this highly enough; it's weird, wonderful; not an easy watch, but covers many topics) @ @ @ The Fall (whilst most all films involve the importance of relationship love, this one doesn't so much, which I really like; it focuses on the innocent relationship between a guy and a little girl both in hospital; beautiful and funny and nice) @@@ The Men Who Stare At Goats (for those interested in modern OBE research, special powers, etc, this is a must watch; based on real events; you can even get a scanned copy of the 'New Earth Army' training manual online: http://arcturus.org/field_manual.pdf !!! ) @@@ Shawshank Redemption (beautiful; get busy living or get busy dying) @@@ The Truman Show (breaking out of the illusory world) @@ The Game (mid life crisis/transcending what's not important) The Lovely Bones (nice and mystical story) The Secret of Kells (beautiful mystical animation) @@@ The Diving Bell and The Butterfly (importance of perseverance) Total Recall (what is real, what isn't; old version) V for Vendetta (overcoming the odds; vanquishing lies, etc) Vanilla Sky (waking up from illusion) Wristcutters a Love Story (funny quirky film about afterlife for suicides) I second: The Fountain. (The importance of surrender). @@@ Milarepa (still waiting for the follow up though) The Matrix (breaking out of illusion) @@@ Blade Runner (what is life/soul/true) What Dreams May Come (heaven and hell) @ Jacobs Ladder (heaven, hell, surrender) (not an easy watch) @@@ Gattaca (overcoming the odds) @ Spiritual Documentaries wise: Who's driving the dream bus (I don't agree with the guy's conclusions at the end, but the film is good). @@ The Yogis Of Tibet (Contains stuff on Trul Khor not shown before + interesting in general) @ The Tibetan Book of the Dead (narrated by Leonard Cohen) DON'T watch Enlighten Up (in my opinion, I found it irritating; the person doing the documentary and the person in it didn't seem to know what they were going on about; she just focused on asana really; the guy struggles to see where bhakti, jnana and asana all fit together; no one explains this to him, it feels like the creator of the film could easily have done this; I'm sure anyone who has spent a month reading into Yoga (Jnana, Bhakti, Raja, Karma - Yoga) could quite easily explain how they all connect.) The Louis Theroux India and Enlightenment episode (all louis theroux stuff is amazing too) @@@ Aliens (actually good, not like a lot of rubbish out there): I know what I saw (best alien documentary I've seen so far) @@@ Sirius (mixed feelings about this, but it's another interesting doc on aliens with a spiritual edge; I definitely agree with the sentiment) With regards to society stuff, corruption, indoctrination: The Trap - Series - Adam Curtis (a good sociological look at society) @@@ The Corporation @@@ The Yes Men 1 and 2 @ The House I Live in (amazing look at the ridiculousness of prohibition and how it disenfranchises the poor [and, of course, the people at the top get all the money; including HSBC [look in the news] who have NOT been punished for knowingly receiving and laundering drug money, whilst the poor get locked up for the petty crimes of selling to their friends to support their habits]) @@@ Jonestown, the life and death of the people's temple (incredibly sad story on a cult and the importance of not being brainwashed ; it's a shame; headed by a non sociopath, it could have been a beautiful non american, socialist utopia [makes me wonder about conspiracy]) @ Leaving the cult (interesting doc about leaving 'The Prophet' cult) The most dangerous man in america (about a guy who went from war supporter to whistle blower, the first whistle blower, brilliant) @@ With regards to anthropology: Tribe (by bruce parry; I think it's called something else in the US; he goes around staying with different tribes, taking part in ceremonies, properly immersing himself in the tribe) @@@ BBC Human Planet @@ Science, Biology, Physics: BBC Inside The Human Body BBC Time - Series - Michio Kaku @@ Into The Wormhole (hosted by morgan freeman; brilliant; asks questions we all wonder, especially those who are mystical/spiritually inclined) @@@ Haven't Watched Yet, but Carl Sagan's Cosmos looks amazing. BBC: The Life series; Planet Earth series; Blue Planet series (all for the beauty of nature) @@@ 'Other', documentaries: Murderball (inspirational; about living a full life with disability, among other things) @@ How hackers changed the world (self explanatory) @@ Fiction series: Adventure Time (it's amazing; funny without being derogatory or negative; truly positive AND comical; mystical; some episodes mention third eye, dmt, other dimensions, many mentions of meditation; in one episode B-mo and Finn are meditating and B-Mo says that he/she felt like she was floating up and down when she was meditating (Kriya / Spontaneous Movements!!! / Levitation); a brilliant Non-dual episode is B-Mo lost [the ending]; it's on cartoon network, and CAN be watched by kids (if you've got them, no swearing) but has a massive cult following, and seems to be primarily geared towards mystically inclined adults; SO positive, lovely, funny, mystical) @@@

Perennial Philosophy/Perennial Technique: Spiritual Thesaurus (copied from a different thread I started, as it seemed worthy of it's own) My vocabulary of terms and practices is pretty much solely western or Indian/Sankrit/Yoga/Tantra, etc. Along those lines, does anyone know of any book, pdf or website (preferably an all in one source) that serves as a sort of spiritual thesaurus between the different traditions/geographical locations? Or a spreadsheet/chart? I believe/know there is a perennial philosophy (Truth is Truth, right?) and like to think that there's a perennial practice as well (hence the similarities between Self Inquiry/Philosophy systems [Jnana, Zen, Buddhism, Advaita, Gnosis, Sufism] and energy work systems [Yoga, Tantra, Neidan, Taoist, Tibetan, Christian Kabbalah, Kabbalah, Dhikr etc; humans are all built the same, right?]). If no such document exists then perhaps this would be an interesting project to take up on here/and through other forums. Part of me that likes to think of universal theory/practice is a bit apprehensive about starting on a new route and coming across potential clashes/dissonances throughout traditions, but I guess this is just ego attachment/fear.

To anyone interested, the book The Subtle Body: An Encyclopedia of Your Energetic Anatomy appears to be a good resource for (the non philosophical/conceptual) half of what I'm looking for. Only given it a skim so far, but it appears to cover energetic anatomy according to various traditions. Will review at some point in the distant future when I've had time to give it a thorough look.

Sounds like the first part of Adyashanti's True Meditation/Zazen. Just sit, and allow everything to be as it is.

Hola, You're probably thinking: "Oh no, not another Qigong thread." I have searched the threads for something similar to what I'm asking and haven't come up with the exact same questions (feel free to delete thread mods, or move, or let me know if there are threads that ask the same questions [apologies if I've missed one]). There are a lot of threads on "which qigong system/dvd/book", etc, but none that specifically also ask what Qigong (and specifically what system/dvd/book) has done to/for the people who practice it. I'm personally interested but, also think it would be a valuable thread for others. So, if you experienced ladies and fellas could send some recommendations for systems, schools, books, DVDs, teachers (for teachers can you say where they are?) along with what their practice has done (or not done), that would be great. Also, general feedback on Qigong as a whole, what to expect, standard results to expect, etc. For example, I've seen a few posts from people saying that after practising that they can now see energy channels in themselves and others (or at least palpably know them), and then easily focus this energy. Is this a normal result of (dedicated) Qigong practice? Personally, I think I've settled on SFQ for now, but before I was debating on whether to do Ken Cohen's 100 days, JA Johnson's Qigong DVD, or Flying Phoenix (before I was considering Mantak Chia, but, there seems to be a lot of reports of problems with his system). I did my first Qigong session the other night, following the spring forest level 1 practice and during "The moving of Yin and Yang" practice, I began to feel a strong pull/field around my hands as I moved them, as if I were wearing gloves with powerful magnets on them. Is this a 'usual' thing? Is it Chi? Or is it just a feeling caused by the movement of hands? I'll see if it happens again, it was quite interesting. The only time I've had similar experiences is during a Prana Vidya practice and during a Tai Chi class. Anyway, cheers guys.

I didn't actually get into spiritual things to improve my mental health exactly. I was interested in deeper Truths/Truth from a young age and then, seeing through the impermanence of phenomena-based/conditional happiness, I started investigating further. THEN, due to a bunch of combined factors, life stressors, life circumstances during a period where I was already 8 years deep into inquiring about the spiritual side of things, and 2 years into practice, I developed anxiety issues that started severely impacting my life and ability to function; admittedly, during this period, I was quite busy and so let my practices slip a bit. Perhaps if I hadn't done this then the anxiety wouldn't have happened, but, that is unknowable. Now though, obviously, it is one of my main focuses in life (I wonder if it wasn't, if I went back to committing COMPLETELY to Truth/Enlightenment, whether that would lead to transcendence of the anxiety and all issues, and whether that now anxiety has become focused on that makes it worse; this is probably in part the case, but how much is hard to determine). I would like to overcome these issues that stop me from living my life fully. Thank you for the solidarity/sentiment though . Yep, no doubt. Con men/people in all areas of life. That's an interesting synchronicity. I have been looking into systems of Qigong, study-able from DVD (for now) and was, until last night, tied between Ken Cohen's 100 day system, or spring forest. Both Ken and Chunyi seem great, and, I still want to have a look at Ken's practises (and you never know, anything could happen, I may change my mind), but, I was trawling the forums/web and came across a lot of people saying that if you want healing to go with SFQ AND, ALSO, last night I was listening to Chunyi's foundations for practice, and hearing him talk about using illness as a teacher (amongst other things) really resonated with my outlook, so, I think I've decided on SFQ, for now. I don't know about the abilities of these systems to go deep enough, but, I agree that repression is usually, most always a bad thing (I can't think of an example of it being a good thing, but, never say never) and, yes, psychotherapy works. I'm a full supporter of proven therapies, in my case CBT/ERP. It's just tough; and, due to it coming back, I wonder about deeper emotional routes of things. I think if one stuck with CBT for long enough and had the support in place to do this, and to keep you on track, recovery is inevitable. The problem is, you need to keep it up. Like with most things, it's about establishing new habits/patterns of thinking and getting out of old ones. You need to keep it up to build those new neural pathways, and mental health issues are so insidious that bad habits can slip back in easily, hence, either requiring the individual to be very mindful and diligent, or, preferably, having a therapist to keep you on track. Ha, I've had a look and it does look new agey (which I have some kind of inherent conditioned aversion to)! But, I won't let appearances or conditioning stop the investigation of an effective practice. Can you explain what it entails a bit more? Why you think it's so effective? Specific benefits you've felt? Are you sure that improvements felt by you are a direct cause of the practice?-(I don't mean to call your own insight into yourself into question, and I don't mean to insult, I'm just curious; hope that doesn't offend). Yep. This didn't help so much for me personally. The CBT stuff needs to be more focused on the phenomena itself for me. Another synchronicity , me and my friend were just recently talking about Amma. She asked if I wanted to go and see her this year with her.

Nope, I haven't said anything along these lines; I have just used my innate logic/brain to highlight various (what I see as, and I think most would agree to be) axioms. If you're thinking "it sounds like "i am teacher, i am god, i am..."", then this is projection/interpretation on your part. I haven't said anything to the contrary. I haven't denied the abilities of adepts/teachers. I was simply reading through and read: And, then: And agreed with the this bunch of words, and thought I would add to this, highlighting the axiomatic reasons why lineage doesn't have to be everything. Mainly that: All lineages start with one being/person, and I provided the possible method through which some of the Masters of the past woke up with no established lineage: A simple axiomatic statement, no? A lineage HAS to start somewhere, no? I then went on to say that there are of course advantages to lineages/schools/old-systems, but, still highlighted the fact that an old-lineage/any-lineage doesn't have to be considered the only effective route. In summary, I saw you posit a belief that I personally thought was not a beneficial one to have (as most all absolutist beliefs are) and was drawn to highlight reasons why I thought the belief was fallacious, with the end intended goal of helping you. I didn't say I was planning to. All I was doing was highlighting a fallacious belief (as my points above show). First of all, as I said above, I haven't said that I intend to do all this on my own (in a way, no one does anything "alone", we all stand on the shoulders of giants/those who went before us). Second of all, this is quite an insensitive, inappropriate and rude thing to say, to use something that is classed by modern language/society as a disorder/disability/disease to persecute against someone in a discussion. If someone had cancer or a severed spine would you use that against a person in a discussion? Additionally, you don't know me, you know nothing about me, so, to make these statements is again, inappropriate. What appears to have happened, is that I have questioned a belief that you are identified with, and you have then gone on the attack. This is understandable. There is a theory that we defend our positions so much, even when even WE begin to doubt them, because when we strongly identify with a belief it becomes part of the mental picture we call "me". Thus, if a part of our "me" is compromised, for example a belief that we start to see a fault in, just as we would if defending our body, we go on the attack to defend it, with the aim to prevent a part of ourselves from dying; because, once an idea is seen to be untrue, it, in a metaphysical sense, dies. Like most of what we do, it all comes down to a fear of death due to our false identification with single phenomena (mainly our bodies/opinions/beliefs), rather than Shiva/Shakti or Consciousness/Energy or Nothing/Everything, as being our self/what we are. Like all things in life, like all phenomena I come across, I see my anxiety as a teacher, a guide to lead me to Truth. It has provided me with some valuable insights, and, through overcoming painful emotions/thoughts related to this anxiety, I have learned ways to overcome or "see through" various other phenomena. We all have our obstacles, mine just happens to be easily summarised by the term "anxiety"; this doesn't invalidate my logic, sight, insights and experience.

Haha. I didn't see your post/must of started writing before you posted. Funny 'coincidence'. Both wondering about terms and posting at the same time.

Just a quick question, to anyone who sees this. In Sankrit language Yoga/Tantra traditions, Shiva = Emptiness/Nothingness/Consciousness and Shakti = the emergent Everythingness/Energy from Shiva. The correlation between Yin/Yan and Shiva/Shakti seem a little off. Does anyone know the equivalent Sanskrit terms/references for the deviation of two types of energy into Yin/Yang? I've done a little searching but so far haven't come up with anything conclusive.

Yes. All lineages began with one being/human/person. All a lineage is, is a bunch of stuff that one person/being, through a lot of deep seeing/feeling/patience/insight-(literally in this last ones case), worked out. People may add onto it over the years, but it always starts with one. Core, universal Truths/Workings/Rules are worked out, ways to work to achieve certain ends according to these rules, like math, chemistry, music. No lineage, person, or prior teaching is necessary to work this stuff out (it can help a lot, but it's surely not necessary); no lineage or person has a monopoly on Truth. I guess the advantage of an established lineage is that stuff gets clarified, regularly asked questions, etc, whereas if someone has started seeing/experiencing these energies to incredibly subtle degrees, or, if someone realises self/no-self, then they have to come up with a new language to describe/point to these phenomena/This Truth, and have to find out how best to translate. On the other hand, newly awakened people can find terms to help from the various schools/beings from the past. Waking up, completely to non-dual Truth, feels/seems to me to just require sincere one pointedness to find out what is True. Surely many throughout the ages have woken up with no lineages or teachers with this one act/intention. Energy work is similar to a certain extent, wanting to know the Truth. People sense subtle energies and investigate them further and work it all out. Or, some it seems have OBE experiences and work further from there and develop second sight. Robert Bruce being a good, well known example. Franz Bardon being another.

Yes, the One/Brahman knows what it's doing. To say otherwise is the arrogant, limited viewpoint that is Un-enlightenment (I currently suffer from this viewpoint often, with shoulds and shouldn'ts about my life/the world). Nothing is not One/Divine. That's what Non-Dual Truth/Brahman is. Everything. Most people don't have this gift to detect what's effective and not effective (rather than good or bad). So, to have open information so they can know if a technique works or not and then know whether a teacher is genuine is valuable. I think greater good generally involves the greater number of people. The greater good is for information to be open, free, to help people find Truth and avoid charlatans. I understand where you are coming from Dwai, that there are good reasons for secrecy in some instances, but, A: many of these reasons no longer apply with modern technological development, freedom of speech and freedom to pursue any religion/spiritual tradition that we want (no burning at the stake for us). And, B: When it comes to, specifically, the practice of Kriya Yoga, it's a bit complicated. With techniques in lineages of renunciants/monks/sannyasins, etc, then there were specific schools that people stayed in all their lives, learning from text and teacher, ensuring that systems stayed intact. With Kriya Yoga, as it was formulated/brought to the world as a lightning path, to take the householder to God/Truth, the same systems/logistics/processes didn't apply/weren't in place, and now, what we've got is a load of various schools and/or teachers, all purporting to teach the one, true Kriya Yoga, and many of them are different and some of them are even bogus. In this complex situation, opening up the information allows individuals to know what works/what's true/where the deviations lie, the different approaches, what teachers/organisations to avoid and then they can make up their own mind, without wasting valuable time, or money on bogus systems. Ennio Nimis was actually granted permission to teach Kriya in one of his lineages, but having been on such a roller-coaster ride, involving a lot of disappointment, insult, uncertainty and disparate and/or ineffective practices, he decided to write about his experience and release it for free, to help save a lot of other people from falling into the same traps that he did. I think he has done the world a service in writing his books. I would have liked to have seen a practice manual from him, but, he and Stevens are good friends, so, Ennio's many years of experience, I'm sure, contribute to the Stevens book. And regarding Nityananda, I think it's brilliant that a Swami with deep insight has written a book elucidating on the theories and specific in-depth, underlying processes of Kriya Yoga. I think that it's an incredibly valuable resource that the world/Kriyabans, advanced or novice, deserve. Releasing information doesn't stop the need for teachers, it just helps people avoid the bogus ones.

Earn knowledge to help find the Truth of ourSelf. I think it's a birthright of any being. There's no one that does not deserve it. I think it's a bit exclusive to say otherwise. Of course, with genuine masters and teachers this is a useful approach. But, now, what often needs to be 'spent', rather than time, is money (people have busier lives now perhaps/there are more specialists these days); the problem here is, if someone spends a lot of money on an initiation, and time practising it, it could turn out to be bogus, or harmful, if they are unfortunate enough to be charmed by a charlatan. Open information enables people to determine if a teacher is genuine. It doesn't get rid of the need for good teachers, but helps weed out the fake/'bad' ones. Kriya isn't "already an open system. And, to repeat, with Kriya a lot of systems have been altered so they are either possibly too weak to have good benefit, or, if there is a bad/false teacher who's just got some information and starts off on their own to make money without knowing what they're doing, then they can teach stuff that's too strong. So, again, secrecy does not ensure safety. Having practice information out in the open enables people to know what's a genuine practice and what's safe/not safe. In the books I have come across where practices are outlined, there are always strict instructions/warnings for what practices to do/not to do/wait to do. Of course people can ignore these, but that's their own doing. In a way, there are no mechanisms like this in place because bringing in legalese/litigation into matters of finding our True Self/Truth/Self seems at one end inappropriate and a coming from a limited viewpoint of needing to control "What Is/Life/The One" - which of course goes against the enlightened perspective (which entails realising Truth/Oneness, letting go of all attempts to control and realising there's nothing separate from you to control anyway), and at another end it seems outright ridiculous. Also, "teacher selects a student to transmit his/her knowledge, the student is bound by the same rules of conduct, etc to pass that knowledge on to his/her students." Though, transmission/passing of technique/information/knowledge can now occur in many different ways, due to modern developments (as mentioned in one of my first replies to your objections of free/open information). So, now a teacher can pass on the same knowledge that they did vocally, through CD/DVD or book. There were no printing presses, DVD or CD players in ancient China/India to do this. Now there are. For the many reasons that modernisation/technology has mucked up the world, this is one of the good outcomes, free, open, easily, widely available information and communication. Evolution, progress. Yes, not for the purpose of preventing plagiarism, but just for the purpose of being able to certifiably know/determine what an original practice was, something like this would perhaps be a good thing. Then a techniques alterations could be tracked and the original known. This way, someone could know they were getting the original Kriya teaching. If Lahiri Mahasaya had registered the technique, then, the true source could be known for sure, but, he didn't. He is a Master, so, I'm sure he knows what he is doing (not trying to control what is), but, perhaps before he left this physical plane, he didn't know that SO many different variations of Kriya would form, all purporting to be the only, one, true Kriya Yoga. But, still, some might find this a limited/ego approach. If there were lawyers around at the time of the ancient masters to verify patents/etc on information, then, this could be workable viewpoint/approach. However, there weren't and we all stand on the shoulders of giants, of the people before us who paved the way, and there are countless individuals who have contributed to these systems, so, the issue of plagiarism, in a way, goes out the window. Now, with modern formulations, it can be done easily. I don't know what I think about it in the modern context. On one hand if a person has come up with a technique that works, and has spent a long time practising/researching to formulate it and they have no other means of financial support, then it seems right that they receive contributions for their work. In this modern instance, then a techniques origin can be known, and, people don't have to spend lots of money trying to find the original/best/true KAP, or Kunlun system, because they can easily find the source. On the other, I still think open information/discussion/non-secrecy is a good thing. But, still, these modern formulations are openly discussed in the real world between people I'm sure. Taking the technique and teaching it by yourself without authorisation is one thing, but talking about it is another, and I don't think these strict views of secrecy apply in a modern context. All of my prior points remain. Secrecy largely leads to more harm than it prevents.

Just posting here rather than starting a new thread. Running and cycling/any cardio outside is obviously preferable (to me anyway), but, I'm just wondering, for the person in the cold winter months, or for who, for whatever reason, is stuck inside with a small amount of space, what can/would any of you suggest, cardio workout wise, preferably with other elements such as: energetic or a meditative element, or some kind of additional element?: (in the 'Spark' exercise book the author highlights research that shows, when compared to exercise alone [which improves concentration] exercise involving complex movements results in better concentration still). I do cardio versions of surya namaskar/sun salutations, sometimes for this purpose, which works well, but, I'd like to know if there's any other good stuff out there. Are there particular Bagua or other martial sequences, etc, that are good for this? I don't know much about martial stuff (apart from the short form in Tai Chi, but, and did a bit of Judo/Karate when younger) so apologies if this is a 'stupid' question. Cheers guys.

And, thank you Captain Mar-Vell and Zhongyongdaoist for the kind words and input. Those 'Key of it all' books, together with Manly Hall's book, look like useful resources in all this

This is sort of what I was looking at doing if I couldn't find a pre existing form. Good idea. Now, all we have to do is find decent relevant forums for each tradition. You've actually given me an idea of how to execute this well, thank you.

No, I don't see Truth as a "commodity". Truth is Truth, Truth is "What Is", Truth is: God, Buddhahood, Allah, Tao, Brahman. Techniques COULD be seen as a commodity, but I don't exactly see them that way either. Though, I, and countless others, have experienced/known/seen that people do monopolise or at least attempt to monopolise information (techniques are information). For example, most ALL of the Kriya organisations are doing, by definition, EXACTLY that, they are attempting to monopolise the Kriya technique, saying that their and their Kriya alone, is the "True Kriya", and all others are false. I don't think monopolies (except for the board game) or secrecy are ever a good thing. Open source/transparency prevents such occurrences. Indeed (even the method of no method). I mostly agree. Systems have been created and used, maybe for some not over thousands of years (we don't know how some techniques originated and can't know), but, I think in some instances they came directly from one Sage/Master/Guru, deep in contemplation. Though, this is irrelevant. I agree that this is largely the case. This is where I disagree. As per my above points, I think I clearly illustrate how secrecy often results in more harm than good. Perhaps not in all traditions where it is easy to trace lineages to find true masters, but, Kriya is one particular lineage that has MANY different organisations and teachers, each claiming to be the "ONLY TRUE KRIYA". I'm sure there must be similar instances involving other lineages/techniques. Transparency and openness enables the organic richness of these techniques and systems to be properly maintained, prevents faux gurus from teaching false techniques, and results in sincere seekers being able to know whether or not the technique that they have learnt from a teacher/the teacher themselves, is genuine. Open information doesn't stop the lineages from existing, people still go to teachers, and many will probably always shun learning from open sources, but, I'm not necessarily talking about learning from open sources (as I think I have clearly outlined), but simply that information should be open and freely available. Driving = the technique. Information on driving = Information on technique. Instructor = teacher. Open field = sincerity, good amount of time, patience. There's loads of information freely available on how best to drive a car. But, people don't just get in a car and drive on the roads. This would be dangerous. They need an instructor to show them what to do. Though, some are lucky enough to own their own land, and this enables them the space to safely practice without an instructor. In addition to reading information, they'll still probably have the odd lesson with an instructor, but, with the information being freely available, they can know whether or not what the instructor is teaching them is safe/legal, and then, whether the instructor knows what they are talking about and can be trusted.

Yes, but that doesn't exactly apply here. The two situations are quite different. Information Technology, resulting in products etc is quite different from information/knowledge itself. YES, anything can be commodified, but, that still doesn't mean that all information should not be freely available. First and Second: Transparency allows the True source of the knowledge to be known MUCH more than secrecy does. Secrecy creates uncertainties, various different sects and schools that all come up with their own 'Truth' about sources and creations, original ideas etc. This results in the True source of knowledge becoming twisted, clouded and unknown. By being open and transparent this both highlights the direct source of the knowledge, rather than circumventing it, and results in the possibility of the complete acknowledgement of the original source. The above shows the previous argument to be incorrect. And, I don't think that any person, country, organisation should have a monopoly on any thing. Truth is universal. I agree that it's nice/can be important to acknowledge the specific route and the identity of the original walker who got to the top of the mountain (the top being Truth), but, like I said/have shown, secrecy doesn't help this, but rather hinders it, resulting in issues/sources getting shrouded in mystery, allowing false prophets/greedy opportunists to come forward and lay claim to this path/Truth/technique. To repeat. Teachers are great and important, but I don't thin that secrecy is ever a good thing. Hope you're not getting argumentative vibes from this, that's not how I'm writing/not how it's intended. Just trying to explore issues and end up in what's best/good/True.

I think sincere time and effort in seeking out and performing a technique is paying a price of effort, no? It doesn't matter where the information is sought from, IMO. Seeking out the information in books is still 'paying a price'. But, regardless, I don't think that anyone should have a monopoly on anything, especially information that points to Truth. Surely everyone is entitled to Truth, the Truth of themselves? And shouldn't have to pay any price to find this Truth? Of course, apart from the price of giving up illusion. It's all One, Brahman, Tao, God. Does/can anyone own anything? Doesn't everyone have equal right to all things? I understand the idea behind the secrecy of course, but as I said in my prior post, secrecy in my opinion has caused more harm than it has prevented in this instance. There are many tails of misery, poor mental health and addiction throughout various Kriya organisations (as I already said, Lahiri was strongly against forming organisations around Kriya), possibly caused by dissemination of ineffective techniques that people practice sincerely and diligently for years with poor results (wondering what's wrong with them, why they're not getting anywhere), OR, in some instances, completely incorrect techniques. Some secret organisations around Kriya even teach through written lessons ANYWAY, so, why not have it out in the open? And, like I said in the previous posts. A lot of the previous reasons for secrecy are no longer legitimate. With DVDs, the internet, skype, telecommunications, a majority of humans able to read and write etc, there's not much that can't be taught through non person to person means. Like I said before, teachers are still hugely important, but, I don't think that secrecy in this context (or any, unless protecting from harm) is ever a good thing. I don't have time to watch the video right now, but I'll attempt to give it a look at some point.

Ennio Nimis has released his book for free, online, and regularly updates it, putting a lot of time and effort into the writing, without receiving ANY financial return; compare this to some who claim to be "bona fide teachers" who create organisations around Kriya (which Lahiri Mahasaya specifically said NEVER to do) and receive large sums of money for Kriya initiation. Putting information out there doesn't stop the need for good teachers/gurus and doesn't stop initiations occurring, but actually prevents sincere seekers from coming across faux teachers/gurus. I maintain, I don't think secrecy is ever a good thing, unless if protecting someone from harm. You could argue that keeping powerful practices secret prevents harm, but, A: as I said, putting the information out there with disclaimers, not to practice without checking with experts would largely prevent this (and information still gets out, regardless of secrecy) and B: I mean, overt harm, like protecting an individual.

People may disagree with me here, because there seems to be a general support of the idea of a teacher on the forums, but I'm not going against that idea/support with the below, teachers are needed/important/great, but I'm stating that, I don't think secrecy is ever a good thing, and that it creates dark spaces/shadows in which corruption, inaccuracies and out right lies can form. Ironically, one of the main reasons for secrecy in the past - to ensure accurate execution of technique - doesn't only seem to not be effective in preventing this improper technique from being practiced (information always gets out), but conversely, through faux teachers/organisations etc forming, secrecy seems to be actually CAUSING situations where improper technique is performed. The past reasons for secrecy largely don't apply anymore. I think that all techniques should be open (with disclaimers), to prevent corruption, lies, improper technique etc. Spiritual practices are about finding out what is True. In my opinion, secrecy goes against the very heart of this. If you haven't already, if you read part one of Ennio's online books: http://www.kriyayogainfo.net/ you'll see that "seeking out a bona fide teacher" can often be a bit of a minefield when it comes to Kriya Yoga. A particular point to highlight, specifically one organisation that most people go to as a first port of call when looking into Kriya Yoga, teaches a technique that pretty much ALL the other teachers/organisations disagree with (open mouth breathing during Kriya pranayama/spinal breathing), a technique that is seen to be highly ineffective. In my opinion, teachers are important, they're useful, and masters (Enlightened People [unless you don't believe in enlightenment]) obviously, are also important, for pointing the way. However, secrecy of techniques provides a breeding ground/the possibility for many bogus teachers, many charlatans and wasted time, efforts and sometimes even damage for the seeker. I don't think secrecy is EVER a good thing (unless necessitated for protection, like people hiding Jewish people in WW2). Why the reasons for secrecy in the past? Well, just a few theories: when a lot of these ancient traditions were formed, many people couldn't read or write, so vocal transmission from teacher to student and so on, was the only option in a lot of cases. Also, perhaps, historical phenomena like the salem witch trials, the spanish inquisition and other such occurrences resulted in secrecy to prevent persecution of the practitioners. An additional theory, that doesn't look so favourably on spiritual traditions, is that techniques are kept secret so people can make money. Obviously there are a huge number of teachers who are honest, true, brilliant beings, so, this doesn't apply to a lot of them. The main reasons for secrecy/lineage I see most people say are: Getting transmission from the teacher (but arguably, if a technique is effective, then surely transmission isn't needed, but provides a pointer/goal for which a practitioner can aim for), and specific instruction (to ensure you do the practice correctly, so you don't do any damage, and you get maximum results). Now, most everyone can read and write, so, clear instruction can be given through the written word. Yes, it's good to clarify technique with a more experienced teacher if you're unclear/or perhaps as a general rule, but, also, the same Truth/True-Self/Inner Guru/Tao lives in all of us, flows through all of us, IS us, so, given the descriptions, I think that once people attune to that, then often they can work it out for themselves. If instructions are written with meticulous clarity, then there's not much that can't be learned from the written word. In addition, these days we've got DVDs to show real life demonstrations of practices. Teachers = great, Gurus = great, but secrecy is not so great. All techniques should be out in open (with disclaimers about not practising without a teacher) so people can see if what they're getting is genuine and do research on practices to find the most effective one, and/or, get to the routes and find out what the true original techniques are.

I haven't had time to write replies/respond to all the posts yet, but thank you all for the contributions. At the suggestion of Zhongyongdaoist, I've copied this (below) from another thread on a potential Spiritual Thesaurus (http://thetaobums.com/topic/34641-is-there-a-spiritual-thesaurus-multi-spiritual-linguals-wanted-perennial-philosophyperennial-technique/#entry543671), as it was deemed relevant/inline with the topic. Though I agree (short-term) cost is an issue in the NHS, I don't think cost would have been the reason here. Only treatments that have been examined and shown to work in multiple randomised controlled trials (RCTs) and then (usually anyway) a meta analysis, are offered on the NHS (you can see what's available on the NHS [on/in NICE guidance] and why it's available [on/in FULL guidance; an extensive review of available research; for example here http://www.nice.org.uk/Search.do?x=0&y=0&searchText=anxiety&newsearch=true to the right of "Anxiety CG113", there's FULL, Quick and standard NICE guidance]). Which, of course, makes sense, we don't want our taxes being spent on treatments that don't work; I could go on a tangent about how SOME treatments don't suit being studied in the multiple participant RCT format, which I believe may theoretically sometimes be the case, but, that's too off tangent (for another thread/day perhaps), and, RCTs are the best that we have in terms of studying efficacy of treatments for everyone. There has to be extensive/thorough evidence before the NHS will fork out for a treatment, and, in terms of TCM and Ayurveda, I don't think the evidence for many specific ailments (including perhaps whatever you went to the Doctor for) is available, yet (though, more is becoming available, for various "alternative" therapies). Psychotherapy (competent psychotherapy) on the other hand, proven psychotherapeutic modalities given by trained individuals, are available on the NHS; however, arguably, this is where cost becomes a problem. Waiting times are long due to not enough therapists being available, due to limited funds. http://www.infocoponline.es/pdf/040808while.pdf http://www.mind.org.uk/media/280583/We-Need-to-Talk-getting-the-right-therapy-at-the-right-time.pdf http://www.mind.org.uk/media/494424/we-still-need-to-talk_report.pdf http://www.mind.org.uk/media/498974/mind-briefing-on-access-to-talking-therapies.pdf I agree with this (if you mean alternative interventions such as medication). Therapy, in the long term, is more cost effective, compared to medication. The problem is that governments in general don't ever seem to look at/'do' long term, constantly looking at short term solutions, that lead to more problems than solutions, but keep the tax payers 'happy-ish', and show that they've "done their job" in their term, "providing services whilst keeping in the budget" (another tangent I could go off on). There's also/possibly/it is likely that there are financial biases at play. Pharmaceutical manufacturers putting money in the pockets of decision makers. Drug companies (like any economic power) have often been shown to be dodgy, leaving out important data in studies, paying people off . If the government provided more funding for psychotherapy, it might cost a tad more in the short term, but long term costs would soon go down as mental health problems went into and stayed in remission; medication does not fix anything, it simply masks symptoms (though, this DOES allow people to function and then potentially recover [it's their behaviour which helps recovery, enabled by medication, not recovery caused by medication]). For actual recovery, we need WAY MORE psychotherapists/WAY MORE psychotherapy, and other methods that cure/fix the problem/get to the underlying cause and change brain structure/chemistry, for the better of course (such as spiritual practices [iF THEY ARE SHOWN TO LEAD TO RECOVERY AND ADDRESS UNDERLYING PROBLEMS, WHICH IS PART OF WHAT I'M LOOKING INTO ON THIS OTHER THREAD]). GrandmasterP: MBCT is an interesting and (relatively) new development indeed. I performed a literature review on MBCT in one of my degrees. Combining therapeutic and mindful principles in a group setting, is potentially, very cost effective. And, Captain: MBCT IS a treatment that's available on the NHS if you're interested (but only for depression; you can check NICE guidelines).

This post is off topic with regards to a spiritual thesaurus, but is focused at some of the posts above. (Apologies if you know all this already; I don't mean to be condescending, hopefully the info is more beneficial than patronising [hopefully it's not at all patronising]). Though I agree (short-term) cost is an issue in the NHS, I don't think cost would have been the reason here. Only treatments that have been examined and shown to work in multiple randomised controlled trials (RCTs) and then (usually anyway) a meta analysis, are offered on the NHS (you can see what's available on the NHS [on/in NICE guidance] and why it's available [on/in FULL guidance; an extensive review of available research; for example here http://www.nice.org.uk/Search.do?x=0&y=0&searchText=anxiety&newsearch=true to the right of "Anxiety CG113", there's FULL, Quick and standard NICE guidance]). Which, of course, makes sense, we don't want our taxes being spent on treatments that don't work; I could go on a tangent about how SOME treatments don't suit being studied in the multiple participant RCT format, which I believe may theoretically sometimes be the case, but, that's too off tangent (for another thread/day perhaps), and, RCTs are the best that we have in terms of studying efficacy of treatments for everyone. There has to be extensive/thorough evidence before the NHS will fork out for a treatment, and, in terms of TCM and Ayurveda, I don't think the evidence for many specific ailments (including perhaps whatever you went to the Doctor for) is available, yet (though, more is becoming available, for various "alternative" therapies). Psychotherapy (competent psychotherapy) on the other hand, proven psychotherapeutic modalities given by trained individuals, are available on the NHS; however, arguably, this is where cost becomes a problem. Waiting times are long due to not enough therapists being available, due to limited funds. http://www.infocoponline.es/pdf/040808while.pdf http://www.mind.org.uk/media/280583/We-Need-to-Talk-getting-the-right-therapy-at-the-right-time.pdf http://www.mind.org.uk/media/494424/we-still-need-to-talk_report.pdf http://www.mind.org.uk/media/498974/mind-briefing-on-access-to-talking-therapies.pdf I agree with this (if you mean alternative interventions such as medication). Therapy, in the long term, is more cost effective, compared to medication. The problem is that governments in general don't ever seem to look at/'do' long term, constantly looking at short term solutions, that lead to more problems than solutions, but keep the tax payers 'happy-ish', and show that they've "done their job" in their term, "providing services whilst keeping in the budget" (another tangent I could go off on). There's also/possibly/it is likely that there are financial biases at play. Pharmaceutical manufacturers putting money in the pockets of decision makers. Drug companies (like any economic power) have often been shown to be dodgy, leaving out important data in studies, paying people off . If the government provided more funding for psychotherapy, it might cost a tad more in the short term, but long term costs would soon go down as mental health problems went into and stayed in remission; medication does not fix anything, it simply masks symptoms (though, this DOES allow people to function and then potentially recover [it's their behaviour which helps recovery, enabled by medication, not recovery caused by medication]). For actual recovery, we need WAY MORE psychotherapists/WAY MORE psychotherapy, and other methods that cure/fix the problem/get to the underlying cause and change brain structure/chemistry, for the better of course (such as spiritual practices [iF THEY ARE SHOWN TO LEAD TO RECOVERY AND ADDRESS UNDERLYING PROBLEMS, WHICH IS PART OF WHAT I'M LOOKING INTO ON THIS OTHER THREAD http://thetaobums.com/topic/34642-psychological-issues-and-spiritual-practices-shouldnt-practices-trump-therapymedication/ ]). GrandmasterP: MBCT is an interesting and (relatively) new development indeed. I performed a literature review on MBCT in one of my degrees. Combining therapeutic and mindful principles in a group setting, is potentially, very cost effective. And, Captain: MBCT IS a treatment that's available on the NHS if you're interested (but only for depression; you can check NICE guidelines). Now, back to the spiritual thesaurus.

That's the exact format I had in mind, for something that I would put together/want. But, bigger, and more depth. In line with the universality, etc, here are two interesting academic papers comparing Ayurveda and TCM (haven't given a thorough read yet): http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1297513/ http://digitalcommons.calpoly.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1105&context=socssp