Taoist Texts

sure its him. and whats wrong with doing nothing?

Thats quite true, its a hellishly difficult chpt to translate. Moreover it cant be done without being familiar with the background. This chapter is shorthand, luckily the main concepts of it are unveiled in full here: 《文子 - Wenzi》 《九守》 《道德》 老子曰：釋道而任智者危，棄數而用才者困，故守分循理，失之不憂，得之不喜。成者非所為，得者非所求，入者有受而無取，出者有授而無與，因春而生，因秋而殺，所生不德，所殺不怨，則幾於道矣。 文子問曰：王者得其歡心，為之奈何？ 老子曰：若江海即是也，「淡兮無味，用之不既」，先小而後大。「夫欲上人者，必以其言下之，欲先人者，必以其身後之」，天下必效其歡愛，進其仁義，而無苛氣，「居上而民不重，居前而眾不害，天下樂推而不厭。」雖絕國殊俗，蜎飛蠕動，莫不親，無之而不通，無往而不遂，「故為天下貴。」 Lao-zi said: to let go of Dao (autocratic governing) and relying on the experts instead is dangerous; to abandon calculations and employing the technocrats instead is problematic; therefore (the king) should be happy with his natural lot, not saddened by a loss, not gladdened by a gain. Accomplishing without acting, obtaining without seeking, accepting what comes to you without taking, giving up what leaves you without clinging, letting live in spring, executing in autumn, let live without mercy, execute without anger, this is the mechanism of Dao. Wen-zi asked: how can the king make the hearts of people loyal and loving him? Lao-zi replied: it is like rivers and sea ‘the water is potable when it has not reach the sea yet’, when it is small and not big. That’s why ‘if you want to rise above people then in speech you should belittle yourself, and if you want to be ahead of people you should place your body behind them’, then the Underheaven will certainly be loyal and loving him, if he promotes humanness and duty, and does not spread harsh qi. Then it will be that ‘the superiors do not burden the people, the leaders do not harm the people, if so the Underheaven will rejoice and not reject the king’. (Let the king in relations) with the outlying states, even if they are like worms and moths, not be close with any, not to make advances to them, nor retain them, not pursue them, in this way he will become the most cherished sovereign in the Underheaven.

I understand what you are saying. Those are the words in chinese you replace them with words in english and thats that. Which is cool. Now, with all due respect and ceremony could you paraphrase what it says in operative language? might be interesting;)

seriously what is this? who on earth would need to 'obtain poverty' or distance, or harm? come on.

nostrils are portals.

As per the usual, the official translators had no clue that chpt 16 is a conspectus of concepts and vocabulary elaborated on in another contemporary text: The Yizhoushu (simplified Chinese: 逸周书; traditional Chinese: 逸周書; pinyin: Yìzhōushū; Wade–Giles: I Chou shu; literally: "Lost Book of Zhou") is a compendium of Chinese historical documents about the Western Zhou period (1046–771 BCE). http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yizhoushu which says 民性歸利，王若欲來天下民，先設其利而民自至，譬之若冬日之陽，夏日之陰，不召而民自來，此謂歸德。五德既明，民乃知常。 The nature of the people is to come back to the profit, if the king wants to make the people of the Earth come to him, he first establishes profitable conditions, so the people come on their own, it can be likened to changes of seasons that come on their own, so when the people come of their own volition is called ‘ a re-establishment of De’. Once the 5 De are bright, it means that the people know morals 常. So: 道德經16 致虛極，when the resources of the country are exhausted to the limit, 守靜督。preserve peace, 萬物並作，吾以觀復。Watching the evolution of the things I noticed that they are multi-leveled 天物芸芸，各復歸其根。All the things under Heaven have layers, and each layer is based on the common root 歸根曰靜，是謂復命。Which is peace, if there is peace means that Heaven has renewed your mandate to govern 復命曰常，知常曰明。Renovation of the mandate depends on morals of your people, if they have morals then there is a spiritual protection 不知常，妄作凶。No morals, the spirits will create calamity. 知常容，容乃公，公乃王，王乃天，天乃道，道乃久，立身不殆 So the morals of the commoners, rise to the nobility, the morals of the nobility rise to the king, kings morals rise to Heaven, Heaven’s morals rise to Dao, and if this continues long there will be no danger to king’s person.

here is an illustration of the first two lines by the contemporaries 《淮南子 - Huainanzi》 《道應訓》 尹需學禦，三年而無得焉。私自苦痛，常寢想之。中夜，夢受秋駕于師。明日往朝，師望之，謂之曰：「吾非愛道於子也，恐子不可予也。今日教子以秋駕。」尹需反走，北面再拜曰：「臣有天幸，今夕固夢受之。」故老子曰：「致虛極，守靜篤，萬物並作，吾以觀其複也。」 Yǐn-xū have been studying the art of driving a chariot for 3 years but still could not get it. He was pained by that, and keeping it to himself constantly pondered it. One night he saw a dream as if he received a driver of the imperial chariot as a teacher. Morning after he went to the court, teacher saw him and said thusly: “earlier I would not give Dao to you sir, being afraid that you can not take it. Today, I will teach you how to drive the imperial chariot.” Yin-xu retreated, faced the north and bowed twice saying: “certainly I, the servant received Heavenly blessing in the dream yesterday.” This is an example of what Lao-zi talks about: ‘with emptiness reaching its limit – let me guard the calm assiduously, if so – the all things will evolve and I will just observe their multitude’.

Legge 道德經: 致虛極，守靜篤。萬物並作，吾以觀復。夫物芸芸，各復歸其根。歸根曰靜，是謂復命。復命曰常，知常曰明。不知常，妄作凶。知常容，容乃公，公乃王，王乃天，天乃道，道乃久，沒身不殆。 Dao De Jing: (Returning to the root) The (state of) vacancy should be brought to the utmost degree, and that of stillness guarded with unwearying vigour. All things alike go through their processes of activity, and (then) we see them return (to their original state). When things (in the vegetable world) have displayed their luxuriant growth, we see each of them return to its root. This returning to their root is what we call the state of stillness; and that stillness may be called a reporting that they have fulfilled their appointed end. The report of that fulfilment is the regular, unchanging rule. To know that unchanging rule is to be intelligent; not to know it leads to wild movements and evil issues. The knowledge of that unchanging rule produces a (grand) capacity and forbearance, and that capacity and forbearance lead to a community (of feeling with all things). From this community of feeling comes a kingliness of character; and he who is king-like goes on to be heaven-like. In that likeness to heaven he possesses the Dao. Possessed of the Dao, he endures long; and to the end of his bodily life, is exempt from all danger of decay.

I think it was Keightley http://ieas.berkeley.edu/faculty/keightley.html who in one of his articles pointed to identical terminology for hunting, warfare and punitive expeditions in Shang.

“Reality exists in the human mind, and nowhere else.” ― George Orwell, 1984

Hi SB, thanks for your translation. What do these 2 lines mean thou?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sDls5C4a_kU

Have a fun trip! in the meantime... 有物混成，先天地生。There is a thing formed from chaos, born before Heaven-and-Earth. 寂兮寥兮，獨立而不改，周行而不殆，可以為天下母。 Utterly silent, utterly rarified, self-sufficient and immutable, it circulates without end, due to that it can serve as the matrix of Under Heaven. 吾不知其名，字之曰道，強為之名曰大。 We do not know its name, call it Dao, tenuously name it the great. 大曰逝，逝曰遠，遠曰反。 This greatness first expands near, then expands far, then circulates back. 故道大，天大，地大，王亦大。 Thus the greatness of Dao first creates the greatness of the Heaven, then the greatness of the Earth and that of the king. 域中有四大(夫)，而王居其一焉。 Although in a state there are also Four Great Ministers but the king is unique, residing separately as One (with Dao). 謂王者人靈之主，萬物系其興亡也。 For king is called the master, the numinous man, all things depend on him for life or death. 人法地，地法天，天法道，道法自然。 When it is so then the people will obey Earth (and the king), Earth will obey Heaven, Heaven will obey Dao, and Dao will obey naturalness.

no i was impugning those 'official' translators, not you, you know whose books are on the shelf in any barns&nobles, right next to the self-help section;)

I totally dig these 2 lines

excellent questions, people never ask questions nowadays. no questioning - no understanding. This is a very diffucult passage, I dare say. Previous translations have no continuity, they just string togeter 4-5 weird statements with no rhyme nor reason.

apparently wiki says Zhou later on it would become any state that would accept his followers (Huang-Lao school) armed with TTC, going from court to court, like Confucious or Mo did. This makes me think of the evolution that came from the re-interpretions mentioned above... which became: Heaven, Earth, Man. Could be; it seems that 'the 3 gems' in politics was a placeholder formula for the 3 principles that make a country strong with a content that differed accourding to the school: like this: Han Fei's interpretation of Legalism stressed that the autocrat will be able to achieve the ultimate ends of Legalist philosophy of firm control over the state with the mastering of three concepts: his position of power (勢, Shì); certain techniques (術, Shù), and laws (法, Fǎ) as described in his classic work, the Han Feizi (book). or this: http://ctext.org/pre-qin-and-han?searchu=%E4%B8%89%E5%AF%B6 夫劍產于越，珠產于江漢，玉產于昆山，此三寶者 swords, pearls, jade 文王曰：「敢問三寶？」 太公曰：「大農、大工，大商，謂之三寶 large agriculture, workforce, trade

They say that the literature of those times came from a broiling milieu of social engineers, wizards, strategists, warriors for hire who were traveling from a court to a royal court seeking grants, implementation and a worthy sovereign. The texts like TTC were composed for the prince to read, understand and implement, so they had to be practical, precise and overt. To wit: If the author would write with a Taoist attitude in mind 'oh this cryptic book of mine means anything you want it to mean Your Highness', he would have been kicked out in a a jiff.

道德經67 《道德經》: 天下皆謂我道大，似不肖。 Every (warring state in) Under Heaven proclaims territorial expansion as its strategy (Dao), which seems not clever. 夫唯大，故似不肖。若肖久矣。其細也夫！ It is the expansion, that makes it not clever. For when such cleverness goes on long – it becomes knavery. 我有三寶，持而保之。 My (state), on the other hand have 3 gems (different from those of the other states), to those 3 we will hold fast. 一曰慈，二曰儉，三曰不敢為天下先。 First is mercy, second reservation, third – not daring to become the dominant state in Under Heaven. 慈故能勇；儉故能廣；不敢為天下先，故能成器長。 Mercy to my people will make brave warriors out of them; reservation will allow us to build a reserve of war chariots; not daring to become the dominant state in Under Heaven will allow my state to complete its projects and to last. 今舍慈且勇；舍儉且廣；舍後且先；死矣！ The others abandon mercy yet want bravery from their army; abandon economy yet want to build chariots; abandon the rear yet want to become the dominant state - are bound to perish. 夫慈以戰則勝，以守則固。天將救之，以慈衛之。 (But my state) will gain victory in war due to mercy, and then will hold firm (to the territory). (After that) the Heaven will protect our gains, and it will stay secure due to the mercy (our ruler shows to his people).

4. 敗道 [bai4dao4], adj., one who fails in discipline to become Taoist immortal. yes thats an extreme misfortune, that John F. Kennedy — 'Victory has a hundred fathers and defeat is an orphan.[News conference, April 21 1961]' seems 'best ' is an orphan too;). best for whom?

Hi HE;) this is an excellent note. Yes it is an euphemism, much in the same vein as a military expedition to vanquish a neigbouring tribe, to sacrifice the prisoners was called 'pacifying' in those times. I would just add that 敗failure is a derivative sense. its original meaning was specifically 'to defeat' or 'a defeat' (1) To fail, usu. 失敗：事情，計劃失敗了. (2) (AC) to defeat: 敗秦師 defeated the [qin2] army; (modn.) 把敵打敗 defeat the enemy, also 擊敗. (3) To break (alliance, treaty 敗盟，敗約). (4) To spoil (good name of family 敗家風). Adj. (1) Defeated: 敗兵，敗軍 defeated troops; 打敗仗 defeated in battle; 敗不成軍 army is completely routed. http://humanum.arts.cuhk.edu.hk/Lexis/Lindict/ Hmmm..i dont know, did they want to return to their nature? Have they been asked what they want? Is their nature to be used and discarded as that of the straw dogs? If yes then they have not fail for sure.

It coulld have been in your CO days;)

To me, yes, i always poke gentle fun at modern taoists, but even by the time TTC was first written down sometime before 300 BC it has lost its practicall meaning becoming a sacred text whose meaning ranges from abstract philosophy to intenal alchemy to self-cultivation. Its existence in many variants hints that it was not properly understood, being twisted to suit a scribe's world view. Thats certainly how the scribe undertstood it, but I think the scribe omitted the reference to the people becouse it made no sense to him . Same with the next line 學不學 where the reference to the populace is retained but is still read as a reference to the sage not the populace. Now when i see 'not to teach' and 'populace' in the same sentence i can not but recall Confucious' 泰伯: 子曰：「民可使由之，不可使知之。」Tai Bo: The Master said, "The people may be made to follow a path of action, but they may not be made to understand it." so i infer that 'not teaching' referes to the people, and project that on the preceding line as well.

Well yes it does make sense. A very metaphorical, Taoist, benign sense. To me, the reality looks way darker: 《群書治要•德經》: 為者敗之，執者失之，those who act get vanquished, those who cling - lose 聖人無為故無敗，the sages do not act and therefore do not get vanquished 民之從事，常於幾成而敗之，In ruling over the commoners, (the rulers) always wait till (insurgency) come to a head before vanquishing it, 慎終如始，則無敗事，but if (the ruler) would take same care in the beginning (of the uprising) as he did at the maturity of it – then he would vanquish it with non-action 是以聖人 therefore the sages (make) the commoners 欲不欲，不貴難得之貨，what is desirable – not to desire, so (masses) do not value the hard to get goods, 學不學，復衆人之所過，what is teachable – not to learn, to check (復) the transgressions of masses 以輔萬物之自然，而不敢為焉。 in these way all things are guided naturally never daring to act up.