Taoist Texts

Funny story: 孔子不聽，顏回為御，子貢為右，往見盜跖。盜跖乃方休卒徒太山之陽，膾人肝而餔之。孔子下車而前，見謁者曰：「魯人孔丘，聞將軍高義，敬再拜謁者。」謁者入通，盜跖聞之大怒，目如明星，髮上指冠，曰：「此夫魯國之巧偽人孔丘非邪？為我告之：『爾作言造語，妄稱文、武，冠枝木之冠，帶死牛之脅，多辭繆說，不耕而食，不織而衣，搖脣鼓舌，擅生是非，以迷天下之主，使天下學士不反其本，妄作孝弟而儌倖於封侯富貴者也。子之罪大極重，疾走歸！不然，我將以子肝益晝餔之膳。』」 Confucius, however, did not attend to this advice. With Yan Hui as his charioteer, and Zi-gong seated on the right, he went to see Dao Zhi, whom he found with his followers halted on the south of Tai-shan, and mincing men's livers, which he gave them to eat. Confucius alighted from his carriage, and went forward, till he saw the usher, to whom he said, 'I, Kong Qiu of Lu, have heard of the general's lofty righteousness,' bowing twice respectfully to the man as he said so. The usher went in and announced the visitor. But when Dao Zhi heard of the arrival, he flew into a great rage; his eyes became like blazing stars, and his hair rose up and touched his cap. 'Is not this fellow,' said he, 'Kong Qiu, that artful hypocrite of Lu? Tell him from me, "You invent speeches and babble away, appealing without ground to (the examples of) Wen and Wu. The ornaments on your cap are as many as the branches of a tree, and your girdle is (a piece of skin) from the ribs of a dead ox, The more you talk, the more nonsense you utter. You get your food without (the labour of) ploughing, and your clothes without (that of) weaving. You wag your lips and make your tongue a drum-stick. You arbitrarily decide what is right and what is wrong, thereby leading astray the princes throughout the kingdom, and making its learned scholars not occupy their thoughts with their proper business. You recklessly set up your filial piety and fraternal duty, and curry favour with the feudal princes, the wealthy and the noble. Your offence is great; your crime is very heavy. Take yourself off home at once. If you do not do so, I will take your liver, and add it to the provision for to-day's food."'

contention stems only from inquiring what does it actually mean in practical terms.

May be. But Lao-zi did apparently did believe in Di being an intermediate creator. 道德經: 道沖而用之或不盈。淵兮似萬物之宗。挫其銳，解其紛，和其光，同其塵。湛兮似或存。吾不知誰之子，象帝之先。 Dao De Jing: (The fountainless) The Dao is (like) the emptiness of a vessel; and in our employment of it we must be on our guard against all fulness. How deep and unfathomable it is, as if it were the Honoured Ancestor of all things! We should blunt our sharp points, and unravel the complications of things; we should attemper our brightness, and bring ourselves into agreement with the obscurity of others. How pure and still the Dao is, as if it would ever so continue! I do not know whose son it is. It might appear to have been before God. http://ctext.org/dao-de-jing

stationary was trees

Hi Luciano I dont know since i dont have the whole text except this http://blog.sina.com.cn/s/blog_935678810101cj0q.html In general 密戶 = kidneys, while 玄關 refers to energy passages, but the usage varies from author to author.

Yes. You see the start was different in judeo-xtian vs. oriental models. In the former According to Genesis 2:7 "And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul." Hence jeffersonian 'all men created equal', which is a "self evident truth" but True dat.

Dusty, thats the point - they were not that simple, TTC says they appeared simple. that is exactly right. In other words, no, not who were. who appeared so. no. if all people were like that there would not be the main paradigm of taoism - division of humankind into commoners and sages, kings and subjects, gods and men. IMHO, you are obliterating primordial elitism with the 18th century egalitarianism.

the chapter says : 故{強為}之容，曰：therefore we at least describe tenuously their exterior behavior... so they are simple on the outside and profound on the inside. To commoners they appear as passive fools - this is their simplicity; but things tend to work out for them without the commoners being able to understand how - that would be their profundity. Also, being simple and yet profound at the same time it is not a contradiction in terms. The sea is also both simple (because there is nothing but water in it) yet also it is profound since the sea waters are deep.

as simple as that.

Is that a road? I never paid attantion to this variant, thanx. lemme peer at it some more.

Yes, Scott A. Barnwell did a great job for an amateur. this is very astute, except for the eye being not that of the man looking up but rather the eye of Heaven watchin over the man's heart.

correct, except it is a set combo meaning next life. http://www.zdic.net/c/6/37/86389.htm

不待死後升西, do not wait to die and after that ascend to the West (western paradise) 他生證取, (in order) to obtain the proof of the future life 如得其妙竅, rather get yourself a wondrous cavity 則定裏見丹成矣. and then in stability you will see the completion of cinnabar

Of course an abcence of a consensus and a big IMHO were implied;) Selecting 無味 over 無未 is supported by the fact of 無味 being a set combo. The overall thrust of the paragraph is about the nipping a problem in the bud rather than dealing with the difficulty when it is already a big one, that would be non-action. To borrow Marblehead's example: dragging a kid from under the bus is action, making sure that the kid knows not to run into the street - is non-action. The idea that prononciation was different in antiquity originated with Karlgren, i think his work is mainly debunked by now.

yes it is 'taste' , also there is a pun intended 無味 wúwèi=無為 wúwéi almost correct: 'taste what is still tasteless"

just TT will do This all is well and good and quite scholarly, but coming back to the departure point of this whole text: 'knowing where to stop' is a gross mistranslation. What that formulaic expression really means is 'to stop knowledge'. How big is the rift between the former and the latter is up to you to judge;).

yes it does thanks a lot Turner. I will just note for what its worth: in the paragraphs that you have quoted this verb 止 seems to be absent. Its probably unimportant.

of course the map is not the territory. that would be silly. the map is where the territory comes from.

what does this mean?

in this context yes Search for "了當" [Condition = Ignore case, Substring] 直Words 16. 直捷 [zhi2jie2]2, adj. direct (communication, line): 直捷 (or 直截) 了當 phr., simple and direct (opp. beating about the bush). 了Words 5. 了當 [liao3dang4], adj., as in 直截了當 simple and direct, uncomplicated; (MC) settled. 色Words 15. 色澤 [se4ze2], n., luster (of jade, pearl); 色澤兒 extraneous remarks, descriptive additions: 說話別帶色澤兒，直接了當多好 come straight to the point without the frostings. since the context talks about return it makes more sense to return to the root 本 . In general i would recommend you use copies typed in simplified characters, its easier on the eyes and less confusion;)

As Marblehead properly noted, it’s a hopeless task to translate based on just one version since they are all corrupted to almost an equal degree, fortunately, creating a concordance out of the bits that make sense when collated is still possible. One clue which bits to choose as the correct ones is to recognize the known idiomatic expressions marked by brackets below: 古之善{為道}者，ancients who were good at conducting Dao, {微眇}{玄達}, hid deep (their intent) from the sight, 深不可識. so deep that it could not be known. 夫唯不可識，since it could not be known, 故{強為}之容，曰：therefore we at least describe tenuously their exterior behavior, saying: 豫乎若冬涉川, hesitant as if fording a river in winter, 猷呵其若畏{四鄰}, planning as if scared of the neighboring countries, 嚴呵其若客, respectful like a guest, 浼呵其若淩澤, dirty like ice on a frozen marsh, 屯乎其若樸, dumb like a log, 渾兮其若濁opaque like muddy waters. 濁而靜之，徐清When muddy water calms down – the rest is clear. 牝以主者，將徐生。When the female is made master – the life lasts. 保此道者，不欲盈。Those who preserve this Dao – do not bring their desires to fulfillment. 夫惟不盈，because there is no fulfillment, 是以能敝而不成. Therefore there is no fullness for them and no end.

1) 合阳子曰：“辨惑论有之，返本还源为真空，打破虚空为了当。 ...returning to the root, coming back to the source constitutes the true emptiness ; breaking through the emptiness of the emptiness constitutes the final accomplishment 2) 所谓：无间则一贯以还其体，有相则道生，又复其用。” This is explained as: "the unceasing process makes for unbroken stretch of returning to the root, once there is an image – it makes for birth of Dao, resumption of work".

its a mistake, should be mirror 鏡 yes You are welcome anytime Luciano;)

this one is probably the best http://humanum.arts.cuhk.edu.hk/Lexis/Lindict/

no its not an idiom it is the direct meaning , 不可can not 須叟short moment 離 part 矣!