Orion

I would not want a primitive technological current going into my third eye while I'm sleeping. No thanks.

A group of monks from India from the Dalai Lama's lineage were passing through town the past couple of weeks and I had the privilege of attending five different empowerment ceremonies. They were all really worthwhile and I'm glad I put in the effort to attend and follow the practices, but some were stronger than others. About 4 years ago I attended a couple of empowerment ceremonies and I found that they had no energy behind them at all. They were held by Kadampa practitioners, who were white westerners living in my city, but who were ordained monks from their lineage order. I found that the Tibetans who came from India had a much stronger presence, and you could feel their lineage spirits (even though this was not talked about). Don't worry, I'm not hung up on race... I know there are flawed people in all walks off life. Just noting the comparisons. The empowerment ceremonies are supposed to be an initiatory "welcoming" into practicing an aspect of the Buddha, but I am finding that the Tibetan spirits have a whole dimension of their own. From my cursory studies I know that when Buddhism arrived in Tibet it more or less became of a synergy of the local religion. (Is that called Bon?) One of the reasons why I never took the original empowerments seriously is because it just seemed like a projection tool, another manifestation of mind. I didn't get why they were worshiping these idols. Now I understand. Not to mention I finally felt what a proper empowerment is like. I find that when I am meditating on these deities as an aspect of the Buddha, that's not all that's coming through though. It seems like there is an actual deity presence, a sentient being. So I'm not sure what to make of all this... In other traditions, deities are worshiped properly. They receive offerings, have special prayers, and they are approached with specificity. The empowerment practices seem to introduce them as a sort of mantra practice, at least in the beginning. You can give offerings if you want but it's not mandatory because the practice itself is about your inner work and not necessarily the external world. But this approach conflicts with my perception that we aren't just calling into Buddhist ideals but actual lineage beings. Not much different than calling in Athena, Odin, or Horus. I understand why the two systems became conflated but it doesn't feel to me like a pure Buddhist practice because of these deity energies that come through. I'm sorry if I'm paraphrasing this incorrectly, it's been a long day and I've had these thoughts running through my mind. The monks are gone now, back to India, and local resources are not that abundant here. On another note, could anyone direct me to some learning resources on the Bon religion? I'm assuming the specific rituals and magic are kept secret and that's fine, I'd just like to know the preliminaries.

Some excellent replies so far, thank you I want to reply in greater detail but can't at this moment. Just wanted to give acknowledgement and gratitude.

“Before I sought enlightenment, the mountains were mountains and the rivers were rivers. While I sought enlightenment, the mountains were not mountains and the rivers were not rivers. After I attained enlightenment, the mountains were mountains and the rivers were rivers.” - Zen Proverb It's all happening right here. Anything that teaches that there's somewhere to go or something to achieve is just trying to teach another method of control, ultimately. There is obviously a difference between pre and post, not in the objects but in the awareness. It's not true to say we were better off as babies because they are born empty. There's something about returning to innocence after seeing the mountains were not mountains, that is different... more lucid. We are living in a dream. Don't get too hung up on the word "enlightened". Let's just talk about the essence... The thing is... you don't gain anything by achieving this. Inner peace, supreme wisdom, ending of suffering, love... none of these are the point of enlightenment. There is nothing out there to grasp onto. There is no point. It arises and dissolves, and that's it. Everything is like that. This is a dream. One minute you're in love, the next you're dying in the dirt... no matter what happens, you're always "it". You're always there. No trying necessary, but if you feel like trying you're still "it" anyway. I have been struggling with how to bring this into my human level experience. If everything is pointless, if there is ultimate freedom, if there is no inherent meaning or structure, then how do I live? Seems that... the answer is that I am this, and not this, simultaneously. You build a sand castle and the ocean washes it away. Did the sand castle have a point? If you know the candle light is fire then the meal was cooked along time ago. We are living in one big post hoc fallacy -- that because you've always been here, you came from something. Can you please point to this "you"? But this reality, this life, is gnawing. It goes on and on. The awareness never ends. It's a kind of helplessness that has no real solution because nobody is doing it. I find myself going to Vajra Buddhist ceremonies, getting "empowerments" - emptiness empowering emptiness - what do we think we're really doing here? There's nothing in here for karma to attach to. There's nowhere to store merit in a vessel that is already empty. I already hung up the phone, but the phone keeps ringing. And when I answer the phone, the call has already ended. Yet I keep answering. Why? There's nothing happening here. I could do anything I wanted, or do nothing, and it wouldn't matter. Sometimes when I see people earnestly seeking so much, I want to tell them to just focus on the material world. If someone offers you money or enlightenment, take the money. At least money can create temporary experiences and joy. Ultimately it doesn't matter either way. Nothing is wrong. I suppose it does free up a lot of energy to not worry about things that don't exist. Like what it means to you personally if you can't pay your bills. Worst case scenario is you lose everything and die. But now you know -- it was never yours anyway. Just some things moving through my awareness... no point really.

Well, I'm not dead, so change is inevitable.

Just stating an experience I was having, no rules intended. We're all in duality. Thanks for the reminder.

I can relate to this, except I don't understand how love is an automatic manifestation because it implies a proscriptive destination. Is it possible to be enlightened but be beyond love? (A rhetorical question.) A lot of people, such as Adyashanti, claim that such and such happens on the path. But who is to say? Who is to say what way energy should move when we reach certain states? Do they really know or are they just manifesting their own egos?

Could you elaborate on your question? How is being present a method of control rather than a result of cultivation?

So you're saying everyone needs a guru in order to realize? It's like saying that nobody knows what they're talking about unless they've read the right texts. Are there many roads to realization? Please clarify. The rest of the stuff you're saying is just projection. I'm not a nihilist.

I can't argue with you... use whatever structures feel right to you. But calling what I'm saying BS reveals a superiority complex that is common on these boards. Instead of listening to experience, people like to assert that they know more than you, somehow. Claiming expertise in order to make yourself the gatekeeper of knowing is just another form of control. The expert is within, no need to look without. We're all the same thing, are we not?

I am ironically accused of being too conceptual, if only I would just choose some concepts to work with. lol. In a lot of ways these dead experts prevent us from seeing the naked truth. It's just replacing mind with more mind. Can we just talk about the experience of living without referencing various gods? I'm describing an awareness, a sensation, an embodied feeling... not a concept. I'm just good at language association. I didn't choose the quote because I wanted to do the Buddha justice or paraphrase his ideology perfectly. I chose it because it evoked a certain concept coordinate for me that related to an awareness experience. You are hanging in the wind. Yes, the power of choice lets you momentarily feel different ways about, but they are all temporary states in a greater free fall. Good news is, there's no bottom... sometimes you feel like you're flying and other times just falling. These books, people, and concepts are reinforcement of the fear that we associate with feeling the free fall, IMO. They give a sense of order and control. But I don't want to mess with peoples self-created structures too much... I know how important those structures are, however temporary. So do what thou wilt, and that's all it comes down to anyway. I'm attempting to come to terms with being this and not-this at the same time. Choosing a life when I am faced with the redundancy of my own human level experience.

I don't know what anyone is really talking about when they talk about reincarnation. There is nothing in here, whether you're dead or alive. It's a big post-hoc fallacy... that because you've always existed, you must have had an origin, and because that origin is unchanging, it must be immortal and transferable. What is the spiritual evidence of this? Past life memories? How do you know where they come from? I've had very, very vivid experiences that could be called past life. But why attribute it to anything? Why label it? It's just what's happening, in the now. You're not in control of what happens to you on Earth so karma or not, you can't really outsmart the system. It goes on and on and you don't have a say in that. There's no way to know if insight into dependent origination is a product of mind or something else because you can't know anything beyond your own experience of knowing. Even when people think they're being not-mind, there's still mind. As soon as a concept arises, it's mind. I used to get mad at Christians for referring to karma as "what goes around, comes around". Then I realized that karma is fundamentally flawed no matter who is talking about it. What does karma attach to? Can you point to it? Subtle mind? What's that? I'm not trying to be crass. But honestly, just what do we think we're talking about here? That there was some "me" before this "me" which is just as empty?

I saw a Tibetan practitioner recently for the first time ever. I've heard interesting things, being a TCM practitioner myself. The two systems are not the same but they have some similarities, like pulse taking, the 5 elements approach to physiology, and some of the signs/symptoms of organ imbalance. The practitioner gave me 4 different herbal formulas to take over the course of the day. They come in hard bullet-sized pills that you have to crush with a spoon and add to warm water. I have the formula names but for the life of me I can't find any resources online that talk about Tibetan medicine. The practitioner said there are up to 27 different ingredients in a given formula! Naturally I am curious. Could anyone point me to some resources to learn more about Tibetan formulas? Preferably online sources. I mostly just want to know more about what I'm taking, and let that lead me to other kinds of learning about this system. Cheers.

Thanks for the info but I can't find any of the 4 formulas I'm using in those links, or anywhere on the web really. I tried different spellings and everything.

Someone forwarded me this article recently and I thought the way it framed things was rather interesting. The proposed solutions come up a bit short in my opinion, and I don't think this issue can be pegged squarely on "gifted people". It targets the very root dissatisfaction that a lot of intelligent and self-reflective people experience. I found this paragraph particularly interesting: Part of what has been really challenging for me in the past several years of realization is seeing that the structures I have been living by aren't real, and there is no "real" structure that can really replace it. Freedom is a free-fall, but with no bottom to land on. I can try to choose a life that has meaning for me and create a purpose, but part of me knows that it's not real. Isolation... yes it's true, we are all one, there are no separations at the ultimate level and there is no "you or I". I feel that some of the eventual realizations of spiritual systems remedy this issue. However, there are practical day to day concerns. You can meditate on oneness all you like, and how we live in an illusion of duality through the intervention of ego; but it doesn't quite remedy the seemingly separate world. At the end of the day there is still ego, still suffering, and still aloneness. Death... well, that's a given. It's hard to come to terms with one's temporariness and inevitable demise, but having come close to true death a few times now, I know it's not really anything to fear. Living is challenging, death is not. This article was written for a philosophical audience, and for me it cuts right through all of the heady abstract talk of spiritual systems and gets right down to the core of why people suffer. When you realize the inherent purposelessness, isolation, and temporariness of existence, how do you transform that into meaningful, loving action? I know that deep down we are love, we are connection... but I don't always feel that way. Some days I feel downright disconnected. What is the solution?

Thanks everyone for the replies so far.

Get busy living or get busy dying... well, we're all dying regardless if we're busy or not. I understand your assertion about the primacy of existence, I really do. My question though is... how do we exercise free will within Maya? Any choice we make, any perspective we adopt, anything we want to do, is just adding a fake layer over the truth. It's creating karma for no real reason. (I use this words as language placeholders for lack of better terms, don't get too hung up over them.) If you sit down with most really intelligent people, even those who are happy, they will admit that the primacy of this problem underlies everything. Even in my happiest, most blissed out moments in this life, I still saw those moments as being unreal. It seems like moment you grasp onto anything, you're already in delusion. How do you choose without attachment if any choice leads to what is unreal? There are no structures that are real, so why create structures? I just don't understand how anyone derives contentment in this life post-awakening. I see awake people who are blissed out, loving, and such a joy to be around. How the fuck do they feel that way about such a sham?? My question is serious, I want to know! This is the spiral I'm stuck in, as rene put it above. I don't know how to extricate myself. It feels part of the process but I have not yet been able to antidote it. There is objective truth in this, but some kind of limitation of my perspective is preventing me from seeing it as liberating vs. limiting. Do I just live from my inner virtue even if I knew it's temporal and as bullshit as everything else? It seems totally hopeless and maybe that's point. Maybe I'm too attached to it having a loving, blissful outcome, when really these realizations are total shyte. But they are the truth, nonetheless, and you gain absolutely nothing from seeing it?

I don't totally disagree... but there are foundational dissatisfactions that are not perspective based, they are experience based. Things like the Buddha talks about when he talks about suffering and dissatisfactoriness that never goes away, along with his suggested remedies. People have been talking about these aspects for a long, long time as part of the human condition. It kind of undermines a person's experience to say that they just need to shift their perspective. That is the very problem that the article is talking about. Perspective shifts are within the freedom category the article mentions. You have to create your own reality if you want any kind of structure, which means choosing a perspective, which means creating an illusion. I don't see how you can do inner inquiry and be a spiritual seeker without eventually running up against the awareness that nothing has inherent meaning and purpose unless you give it one, which is just another aspect of mind, which is what these hyper-intelligent self-reflective people are having difficulty reconciling. They are aware that anything you choose is just more Maya, though they may not word it that way. In other words... you're talking about the subjective, when the article is talking about something rather objective. Is emptiness subjective? Impermanence? Is independent arising and dissolving subjective? No. They are true natures. To choose happiness, or choose a meaning, or choose a purpose means you are creating something unreal. Yes it feels better and lets you be more productive, so perhaps it eases suffering. But existentialists have trouble with that because it never really negates the underlying foundational problem.

I sat with a guru in Nepal while I was there. (I'm not one to worship gurus, but he called himself a guru so that's what I refer to him as.) I was at a very low point in life, very depressed in the existential sense... wasn't finding at all what I came there to find. I started telling the guru about my story, what brought me there, this and that. He didn't seem to care at all. He kept waving his hand in my face... like, stop telling stories, just do what you want, do what makes you happy. I've come full circle since then, and all I can really say is that the point of the practices and the systems is about clearing out the crap which prevents you from seeing the being you are, which is of this very moment, and its true virtues. There isn't one system better than another, just the one that works for you. The systems show you potentials, but they aren't the solution. Nothing can ever solve this for you. It can only show you what is possible. You then have to do the work, which, once accomplished, shows you how no work was necessary. It's annoying in a way... seeing how much we put ourselves through to realize a simple reality that was always inherent, but that's the human drama I suppose. After reaching the highest peaks and the lowest lows, I have to say that I'd rather just follow my bliss at this point. When you bring everything you've learned down to your human level experience, you're still left with the same question: what do I do? If nothing ultimately matters, then you're free to do whatever you want. So what do you want? What's different about that question at the start, and at the finish, is that at the finish there is way less egoic crap in the way of seeing the question. As for answers... well... answers end reality. Questions keep things open. Not that I'm by any means finished. So yeah... we overcomplicate things, but usually en route to simplification. The more complicated you make it, the greater the chance you'll eventually break, and then surrender, and then realize. We ebb and flow through clarity and fog, awakeness and then grogginess. My impression is that this is normal.

The only thing I have to contribute to this thread, having read some of Rand's works, is that a highly developed intellect is not necessarily indicative of a highly developed moral core. The two are mutually exclusive. Some of the most psychopathic people to have ever graced this planet were extremely brilliant. Many misattribute smarts to merits, and this is the danger of the school of rationality. Compassion, charity (not in the liberal sense, in the general sense), and loving action are always signs of a morally developed society. I don't feel that objectivism can bring us these. Rand's works are almost bulletproof logic, but logic is not enough to govern the human condition.

It seems that everyone is walking a spiritual path, whether or not they know it. Seekers just want better definition and self-awareness of what is happening. At least that's my take.

My question is personal, but also stems from general philosophy I suppose. When life becomes intolerable, how do you distinguish between an objective need for external change (i.e. relocation, changing jobs, releasing friendships) and an increased obligation to practice inner cultivation? In other words, how do we locate the fine balance between endurance and yielding? When life seems unfavorable despite all of our best efforts, a very internal person may tell themselves that they are simply not doing enough inner work. In the reverse case, someone may cut and run whenever the going gets tough, blaming the outside world. Either extreme can be a problem. In the former, you may hold onto situations past their expiry date; in the latter, you may never stick around long enough to pass certain life trials of personal progression. I have gone through periods in my life where I have to "break" everything... when things seem beyond fixing and a radical reinvention is necessary. On the other hand, I've stuck with certain things for a really long time, hoping and hoping that with more effort they'll get better. I'm at a cross-roads right now where I'm having trouble distinguishing which medicine is needed. I've decided that, perhaps, the best way to examine the situation is to remove myself for a while. However, a choice needs to be made... otherwise the stagnation could be perpetual, and harmful.

Severe UC.

Please stop.

Thanks... I get where you're coming from. It's my daily reality. I have tried on that story, that this is a trial, a journey of some kind, a lesson. I've also done the reverse... god is punishing me, it's my karma, it's something I did in a past life or in this life. When I was a kid and fried a bug under a magnifying glass out of curiosity, I'm paying for it now. In other words, I somehow deserve this. Life is not a journey. There is no meaning but what we apply to it. I've realized this more and more as I have tried to spin my wheels being stuck in one place. Everything is empty. I am just a part of the universe that suffers interminably, and that's really all there is to it. If it's punishment, time locked, or some kind of wisdom I'm supposed to decode, it has escaped me. I give up trying. So from this place of complete surrender, I'm like the character in the video game. Do you wish to continue? Y/N There are two reasons why I haven't killed myself. One is the fear that I'll have to come back and do this all over again. The fear has been programmed from Buddhist communities. What little insight I have into past lives is probably just a product of mind, along with the fear. The other reason is that it would completely devastate and destroy my family. And neither reasons involve really living for me, but I suppose they are reasons that have kept me here this long, so that's something. But they are reasons that are increasingly inadequate, and that's the wall I'm up against as I begin to see them as mere attachments. Someone asked earlier, "Is your life really that bad?" The answer is yes. Yes it is. There's no "minding" my way out of this fact as I never "minded" my way into it. When you're painfully shitting blood 10-15 times a day and can only eat 4 things without more of the same, and you're disabled from doing the work you love and building a normal human life, indefinitely, it's hell. I would not wish this on my worst enemy.