Phenomniverse

none too wise for it cutting down all the forests poisoning the seas

we're all lab rats, here this world both clinic and lab we're scientists too

It's helpful for those who its helpful for. If that's not you, why take it personally?

It's so dark in here. Where did everyone go? Gravestone epitaphs.

This phrase sums up the meaning of practice beautifully

Thanks for sharing Deci. You've inspired me to sharpen my own wisdom sword by any and all means.

The Psuedoneuropocalyptic Symbiognostic Phenomniverse A bubble, a world of thought, a thought of myriad worlds, kaleidoscopically refracting, oscillating endlessly, inverting, reverting, converting, conversing, converging, self-perpetuating, self-recipricating. Fractral cloud-forms, ghost-shapes of meaning, imputing import; word-games shaping a reality of sorts to sort for real; and rhythm and colour and texture to feel, wounds to heal like hidden doorways waiting to be explored, worlds within worlds within worlds, mirrors reflecting mirrors, reflecting. Exercises in word-smithery, the craft of articulation, that is to say of bending and flexing, shaping and reshaping neuronal nexuses mirroring events, conspiring (with mutual meetings of spirit) with breath given sound given shape and flow, spirit made audible, and visible, and motile, and lingual. And with rhythm, a pulse, and fluctuations of pitch: music; and again movement makes dance: the all-singing, all-dancing spirit transmission, meeting as one.... the universe. I want to make shapes with words: texture and rhythm... it needs to be music; a sound and light show of language... magic spells: experiences woven from syllables. A carnival, a parade, a funeral procession... In the tangle and the turmoil and even the pain, is the intensity and poignance that is the very brightness and juice of life, the dance of light, and bliss, and anguish. At play in the carnival of lights, with senses open to just delights. Letting my body and mind dissolve in the sound of wind blowing through bamboo groves, and the play of light on water, and sunshine on an open grassy hill-side. Stealing moments of intimacy from unsuspecting strangers, the contours of their inner lives laid bare in the subtleties of their movement and gait and expression. Hidden tensions and reservations, opinions given shape in the loosenings and tightenings of connective tissues, structural matrices forming and reforming in patterns of reverbration mirroring their minds and worlds; patterns of reverbration giving rise to harmonic nodes: objects and identities in the semblance of discretion, dancing in time to a timeless music, in harmony with whirling, tumbling unborn chaos. The beautiful order, cosmetic, superficial, yet the very life and pulse and form of formlessness. And in the movement of strangers, through sensual apprehension, a tactile intuition mediated by vision, I find that there are no strangers, no others, just glimpses beyond my accustomed horizons of being, doorways to unexplored yet strangely familiar regions of my own inner world; doorways and doorways and doorways, opening from and into everywhere.

Yep, you're right. But mindfulness in the sense elucidated in the satipatthana sutta doesn't really bear on the recognition of reality here under discussion until its latest stages. It represents a systematic and progressive practice leading to a definite outcome. Hence it participates in dichotomous thinking predicated on notions of an intrinsically existing entity interacting with an extrinsically existing world. Whereas the direct pointing out as per the OP cuts through that dualism and establishes a point of recognition immediately. The question is, how does one cultivate and sustain that recognition without falling back into a dichotomous perspective? Or without falling into 'stages and levels'?

"stabilized in terms of ordinary affairs" = the prolonged subtle concentration vis a vis your 'wearing out old shoes' metaphor. You've characterised stability earlier as a quality of the recognition of reality itself. When I talk about stability, I'm thinking of a continuity of the recognition which in my own experience tend to be short-lived and occasional. There is a need for some sort of process to facilitate the development of this continuity. Is the deliberate attempt to come back to it again and again sufficient? Is the cultivation of other methods appropriate? "Cultivation" implies the dichotomous perspective that needs to be abandoned, and yet without a method or intent how can this work unfold?

From the perspective of the recognition of reality (which is the actual topic of this thread), the adoption of a persona has a kind of theatrical value as a tool for interacting with a world of method actors who have become so enmeshed in our characters that we've forgoten our real nature. Theatricality is inherent in all the major traditions of awakening: look at all the pointy hats and robes etc. The question is, is there one single archetype of persona that is appropriate for the transmission of recognition as you seem to believe Perceiver, or are there many? I made reference to Kali and Kuan Yin previously as two historically valid archetypes of awakening, insinuating that your version of what an enlightened person should be like tends more towards the Kuan Yin model. And that's great, I hope you do manifest that in your own awakening journey. But the cultivation of a particular persona as a tool for interacting meaningfully with the world is something different than awakening to reality, so I hope you don't get caught up in equating the two and thereby miss the point entirely. That being said, cultivation of virtuous and compassionate attitudes has all sorts of benefits on a relative level as well. The question of how much Deci is caught up in her online persona versus how much she is knowingly using it as a tool is really something that only she has to worry about. But I suspect she has more clarity on this point than you do Perceiver.

Whether Deci is enlightened or not is anyones guess, that's for her to figure out. But her posts certainly have a power to point one in the direction of the recognition of reality that she speaks of, and not just in a conceptual sense. I think her mild ascerbity is part of her charm. She's more Kali than Kuan Yin, which is great if you're ready to have your head cut off. Maybe not if you just need some mild water poured on your head. In which case, go find a Kuan Yin. Deci wields a flaming wisdom sword. Make the most of it. If she wants to walk around in 5 inch stilletos (or are they flip-flops?) and a $500 bra stalking the back alleys of online forums cutting off heads and recruiting sleeper agents for a revolution of consciousness, I personally am cool with that. She's like a character from a Grant Morrison comic. Maybe you're right, she might be pretentious and caught up in her own identity like the rest of us, but even if she is she has something to offer.

Deci although you're speaking about a Taoist school of thought here, your reference to a juxtaposition of insight and concentration is reminiscent of Buddhist thought. Would you say that Buddhist mindfulness practice is a valid method of establishing or cultivating stability in the recognition of reality?

Where is there to get outside to? I don't think recognising reality is about retreating from the manifest into some kind of abstract idea. Reality has to be recognised precisely in the concrete everyday events that arise and pass away every moment. Otherwise its not reality, its just a head trip.

Going back a little... If the ten thousand things are in essence one, then even if you call that one 'nothing' how can you negate the ten thousand things, since they are exactly 'it'?

Put all things away Wu wei, aha, emaho! All things are in place

Ahh.. Awake. Breakfast! After eating wash the bowl Put all things away

Our minds, and hearts Like quartz crystals vibrating one-song universe

Indiscribable That smell that hearkens the spring Warm joy and magic

I like your tone too. You have a knack for expressing the ineffable. You're uncompromising about it. Lets assume this is true. Is that uncompromising resolute adherence to presence the key to stability?

Ok. All of language is simile and metaphor. What words could strike to the heart of it? And yet, all words, all possibilities, all experiences are supported and sustained by 'it', have their ground and being in 'it'. Diversity doesn't contradict unity, unity doesn't reduce diversity. How we ever stray from recognition is a mystery.

Great topic, and great thread, lots of interesting food for thought here. Personally, I think that in general the 'energy stuff' serves to clarify the mind and its positive qualities which are supportive of and conducive to the recognition of the non-dual. By working with gross and subtler aspects of the body, their continuity with the mind is experienced. Lots of insight can come from working in this way, along with physical, emotional and mental health and lots of other benefits. It all seems pretty enticing to me!

Yes, sometimes. I mean sometimes I'm in the experience of recognizing reality, and sometimes I'm not. And sometimes I'm not sure if I'm experiencing it or just having an idea about it. The experience itself doesn't seem to preclude the arising of ideas and sometimes the experience fades but the ideas remain. Other times, having ideas can lead into the experience of recognition too. My point is that it is sensible to be clear if your ideas are tending towards nihilism or towards eternalism (they'll be going in one of those directions) because in those moments when your not in the experience of recognition your ideas about it are going to be guiding you, hopefully back towards the direct recognition of reality. So I think its good to be clear in the realm of ideas. What about you?

If you conclude that 'there is no such thing as anything' (the emphasis in the quote above is mine), is this not also nihilism?

It took me a few read throughs but your original post was a goldmine of insight. Who else did you borrow bits of it from I wonder?

Superb oolong teas thawing you out when you freeze some for me too please!