Felcor

With my experience the people with the knowledge either don't want to show/share or they don't care for either side of the argument. The people who seek the knowledge always feel it needs to be shown shared. I think its one of those things where its hard to take a step back and evaluate from both sides. I personally feel its a bit primitive to not share/show. Kind of how back in the day reading was only for the privileged. This only leads to GREAT things becoming lost and it stifles growth. I get the "this is dangerous, we must guard it like nuclear launch codes" view, but I think its kind of a flimsy excuse and the good out weighs the bad. That being said this is just my opinion, maybe I am being ignorant and if someone showed/taught me I would change my mind and take the knowledge to my grave XD I think a lot of the secrecy surrounding the teachings comes more from the fact that people used to (and still do) make a living from the knowledge.

hahah yeah.. This is a problem. While seeking the truth you still need food and a place to sleep, your family needs you and so on. Still working on resolving those issues. Luckily my family is not dependent on me but I can not depend on someone else to feed and house me so yes.. cash.. ah.. cash. The interesting paradox arises when you live to work instead of working to live.

Life has no meaning, no purpose other than to seek the truth. That is the only reason to get up in the morning, that is the only reason to keep going. That is the only goal worth striving for.

You can come up with a million reasons why not to practice/study/train. You only need one good reason why you want to, then that should be enough. The first choice in life: Just die or live. If you choose to live you might as well FUCKING LIVE!

Hey guys, so during my meditations sessions I have had a few weird and wonderful experiences. One thing that has happened quite a few times is that I get a sensation of spinning, like I am sitting in the center of a merry-go-round. I do not know anyone who I can talk with about these sort of things, so I thought I would come ask you guys. Has anyone experienced this? Any idea what this could be?

Thanks for the advice ChiDragon! Ah this is something I will try! I like the idea of "really opening your eyes" and taking in your surroundings. I think a lot of time people(Myself included) try and get away from reality and with things like meditation they try to "get away" from the body or the room. I think a lot of the time we don't realize that we are trying to escape something we were never really caught in. You know what I mean? You were never truly present to begin with. You were never really there. Sometimes the solution is not to get away but to go towards. Get up close with what is real. really plant yourself in the moment. This helps a lot to clear the mind. So combining this with meditation makes sense to me. I think this is what you meant? Not just try it with your eyes open, but try it with your eyes OPEN? XD

Thanks for the reference I will check out the book. @ChiDragon whenever you have time your input will be appreciated, thank you.

Thanks.

Eyes closed, and no the times the spinning happened my breath was steady. It seems to happen at about the point where my mind is cleared and I can fully relax. There is absolute quiet for a while and then the sensation starts up.

I would say my breath was rather deep, and slow. Speaking of breath. What I generally try and do is clear my mind and not "try" to meditate so I try not to expect what I should be feeling and just let things flow naturally. So I take control of my breathing and get into rhythm and relax and then I "let go". Now what I have experienced is that sometimes my breathing changes in odd ways but then instead of taking control and forcing it back to how I think it should be I let my body do what it wants to. One time this lead to me breathing rapidly and I got a strange sensation in my Dantien. Another time I kept inhaling a lot and then I thought damn I should exhale and So I exhaled a bit but my body seemed to say: "Nope, Inhale more!" So I did and It felt like something was happening but then my thoughts rushed back: "IS this normal" "What is hapennning??" And i stopped the meditation. I realize some of you would caution my "Experimental" nature when it comes to these kind of things, but I believe that the body knows what it is doing and that It can show me things that I did not know. Before Every session I ask for guidance and I thank those that have contributed to my knowledge in any way. And After every session I send my thanks again. I live in South Africa and getting a teacher to train me in person is something I am looking for but is not that easy to acquire. So I trust in the universe and in my soul for guidance. .. And read and study as much as I can XD

Well as to my exact routine I was just sitting in half lotus while breathing into the lower dantien as described in Section 2 nose to tan tien path in the book :Tai-Chi-Classics by Liao Waysun. The spinning usually starts about 20 minutes in and it can be annoying as it usually comes accompanied with thoughts like: "Here comes the spinning again", "Ah dont think about the spinning clear your mind!".. "I should probably ask someone about this spinning" .. You get the idea. Sometimes it just goes away or sometimes I end the session there. Sometimes it never happens.

Ah thanks for the input everyone. I was not really worried about it, I was just curios about it as it happens so often.

Yes I do practice controlled breathing. So does this mean that the blood flow to the brain is being reduced or increased as a result of my breathing?

I think it has something to do with the conscious and subconscious mind. Where our subconscious mind gives ideas and our conscious mind can judge and say if it is good or bad. The subconscious mind will then try and bring you more of the thing. see Dawgs post he explains it nicely: http://thetaobums.com/topic/30012-a-path-to-enlightenment/#entry446614 So what I'm saying is that when you feel grateful for something, you are telling your subconscious and the rest of the cosmos that you want more of this. Also by feeling grateful for something someone has done for you, you in turn will be more inclined to help out others, knowing that they will feel the same. The part about we all being connected, you are actually just helping yourself so why feel grateful is interesting, but that is not the way the world operates. Only a small group feels this way. Gratitude is necessary in our society. The day we all realize we are connected would be the day every human on this planet "Awakens" and will be the end to all suffering. I do not think I will see that day in my lifetime.

I am still very new at meditation. I am sure I have never had a deep meditation session yet. I'm still getting used to sitting in half lotus, trying to work my way up to full lotus but my legs need to get used to it. I have heard a way to know if you did true meditation is to look at the time. If it felt like an hour but it was only 5 minutes you were't in meditation. If it felt like 5 mins but it was an hour then you probably were. Something I do when I start out is a technique I have been doing since before I knew anything about meditation and the sort. That is to think and convince myself that this moment I am experiencing now is my last moment. I convince myself that these breaths are my last that this room I am in is the last scene I will ever see. The result is that it brings me completely into the present and clears my mind of worries and problems. Everything just looks and feels different, and I become aware of things that I wasn't aware of before like I would suddenly feel the draft in the room and realize it had been there all along but I never noticed. I always do this before I am about to do something that makes me nervous like giving a presentation. Something I did not expect from meditation (Even my noobie attempts at it) is that after the session, no matter how short, I always feel happy and full of life. If I try and get in a sesh before bed I usually end op not going to bed because I am all excited and ready to do stuff. On a side note has anyone ever tried to meditate during lucid dreaming?

Ever heard the saying: "The map is not the territory"? The story goes(short version) some general wanted an accurate map made of the surrounding territory so he could defend it better. He got the best map maker draw up a map. After the map was done the general the was still not happy he wanted more detail. So the made a bigger map with more detail. Still the General was not happy he wanted even more detail. So they made another bigger map this time the map filled the entire room. Still The map was too small to contain every detail of the actual territory. For the map to be exact it would have to have been the same size as the actual area meaning for it to be perfect it would have to be the territory itself. We each have a map of our world/existence things we believe to be true. This map keeps growing as you grow things are always being added and removed based on your experiences. No two people have the same map. This map is the most important thing we have as it details our very existence and lives. We make all our decisions based on this map. So when someone says something that contradicts with our own maps we feel threatened (Do I have the wrong information on my map?) having the map wrong could be disastrous as we make our decisions based on it. That is also why when we turn out to be correct in the end we feel happy and relieved and have that urge to say "I told you so!" as your map had proved to be correct validating your decisions and existence reinforcing your trust in your map. No one has a perfect map.

Something that might be helpful would be to have a forum that gives a list of open systems and a short summary explain what the goal of the practice is. Then people that are interested in nei kung can think about WHY they want to learn it. What do they want to gain from the practice. There might be a different or better system that could give the same result. A list of systems available and that are being practiced by the people here. Such a forum or list might already exist?

This will be my last post for a bit as I have used all my posts . What is this PPF? I have looked at other sites but the theme seems to be people arguing about what is real or not and then you get the people that hint at being great nei kung practitioners but refuse to give any information. If there is enough interest I could make a site that is invite only for the people who are serious? Perhaps until then we could layout the steps for level 1 here so those that want to can train so long and we see how it goes and how many people stick to it. If there are others still interested I could make a website where we could share knowledge and experiences and maybe try and work out the rest.

Yes, the biggest advantage we have is the internet as that lets so many people work together, which means its the best place for an information hub, but it is a double edged sword so you need control and moderators. Another thing is that the training takes dedication so the people who are contributing with their results and experiences are dedicated people helping each other out. These people actually doing the work will be the people who get a say. There is no room for speculators. Remember these systems were built by humans just like us. They took all the risks to figure this out from scratch. They did not have the advantage to discuss it with people from around the globe. They also did not have any information in the first few steps. We do. I for one think this is one of the most worthy pursuits a man can have. How can we say no lets not try because we do not have the full book or because it might be dangerous. I think it is worth the risk! And if we fail then it will be something worth failing at.

I completely agree. The first level, filling the Dantien, is something shared by other systems. I am sure we can safely reach this level. I myself am still busy trying to do this, it will take me a long time and once I have accomplished this then I will try and figure out the next step. Until then I can only train as much as I can. There is no point just talking about it or trying to have the complete map before starting. I only have to go one day at a time.

It wouldn't be a new system. It would just be the first three levels and we go off what we know as facts. But yes maybe I am being too ambitious.

Why don't we make a forum or a site where we list all the FACTS about what we know of the first three levels. Those who want to could then experiment and try out what we know and we can start our own manual for the first few levels at least. We don't need to worry about all the levels up to 72 (if there is such a thing). We only have to master and figure out one level at a time. Once we have it down we start figuring out the next level. Who knows how far we could progress? Those that have accomplished the first level could help out those who are still trying. We would need to only look at and record facts and practical steps. I have heard Kosta mention the "universal consciousness". Perhaps by level 2-3 we could access and use this to figure out the other levels? For now it would just be nice to have a record of practical steps to follow for level 1 (Filling the Dantien) at least. Once we have mastered that we would already have gained much and can start looking at the next step. Chang has a manual that describes the levels in ancient Chinese that we have no access to. I say we write our own?

Hey , so to start off with I should say that I am a complete novice in meditation, but I had some experiences that I would like to hear your opinions on. The other day I was sitting in meditation. It was the fourth time I had ever attempted meditation. I was sitting in the half lotus form and breathing deeply whilst focusing on my lower Dantien. I started feeling a weight, like someone had placed a stone in my stomach and there was this tingling sensation all around the weight. Does anyone know what this is? Is this an indication of doing something right or wrong? Or was it merely my stomach muscles reacting to the breathing or something? Okay so how does this tie in with Lucid dreaming or OBE? I am no stranger to lucid dreaming and experience lucid dreams often, but there are two scenarios that I experienced that I think could have been outer body experiences. To be clear they could have been normal lucid dreams but felt so much different. The same tingling sensation was present during both these experiences. Case 1: I was taking an afternoon nap when I had a dream of me waking up on my bed in the position I was when I fell asleep. The only reason I knew I was dreaming was because I looked at my door and saw that it was open. I never sleep with an open door, so that's when I knew I was dreaming. I walked through my house and went outside. There were dark figures standing everywhere in the streets and on the lawn. This freaked me out a bit and I woke up. Throughout this experience and for a little while after waking I felt that same tingling sensation in my head. Case 2: I was in my brothers flat taking a nap between classes when I had a dream that I had woken up and was getting out of bed and walking around In the flat. I knew something was strange and I experienced the same tingling sensation in my head again. I thought "Its happening again!" and then woke up with the tingling still in my head. Does anyone know what this tingling sensation is and if the sensation experienced whilst meditating and those of the lucid dreams/OBE's are related?

Hey everyone. I am from South Africa. Any other South Africans here? It has been a long journey that brought me to this place, so I guess I will give you guys a quick overview of what lead me here. When I was younger I wanted to be good at meeting girls and getting them to like me, so I studied a lot about the topic of attraction and the psychology about why we do the things we do and how the human mind works. That lead me to study about what makes successful people successful and how to be financially successful. By this time I had long forgotten about girls and was struggling with questions like: What does it mean to be successful or happy? Why do we want the things we want? Why do we even get up in the morning? What really drives us and Why are we being driven? I realized that I was not in control of my own life. That this control was just an illusion, like a dream I am trying to escape. Still today I struggle. Everyone around me seems to still be stuck in the dream. I decided that I will find out how to get control over my life and to do that I would need to get full control over my mind. That has lead me to yoga and meditation and ultimately to this site. I hope to meet others who have also "woken up" and perhaps together we can make sense of what we as humans are capable of and what is really important and worth pursuing in life.