FraterUFA

Most of the above. Hermetic thought can rightly be traced back to ancient Egypt and Sumeria. The development of higher consciousness is marked by the evolution of the Sumerian myths. Alchemy likely had its origin in one of these regions as well. In the Am Duat can be found a familiar initiatory practice, still used today. And the roots of the Qabalah lie in Chaldean cosmology. As European civilization went on the decline, the Hermetic tradition found its new caretakers in the Muslim world. Its return west began as early as the ninth century through modern-day Spain, Italy and Germany. The modern (written) Qabalah was birthed in Southern France. Alchemical knowledge was likely channeled by the Sufis by way of the Templars (or those behind them). That the tradition evolved over time is undoubted (and it still is evolving). However, it was transmitted from Adept to student in an unbroken chain. This claim may sound impossible to those on the outside but the training itself provides proof that this must be the case. What I refer to as "true Hermeticism" bears several hallmarks. First, an inner practice which leads to spiritual illumination. Second, a spiritual transmission from an Adept... one cannot self-initiate. Third, a way of life which we would today decompose as magic, alchemy or mysticism, but which in reality is all of the above. Fourth, a scientific approach to inner and outer reality (the two being inseparable from one another). As for Rosicrucianism, I think it is likely the Rosicrucians of the 17th century were part of this living tradition. I consider it to require a great stretch of the imagination to believe that today's neo-Rosicrucians still are. Best, UFA

This is actually not the case, as I stated in my previous response. The most lucid writing on Hermeticism and alchemy occurred in the last few decades, and some of the most authoritative and believable in the last century. Cockran, Fulcanelli, Becker are excellent sources. There are others but they won't hit the mainstream for another couple of decades or so, if at all. Evolving in the sense that our understanding of it evolves, not that the principles and laws behind it do. I do not object at all to new expressions of the Hermetic science... in fact, they are completely necessary (one of the tenents of Hermeticism is that the principles of the art must be rediscovered by each student). But virtually all of which is accepted as Hermeticism has no basis in experience or reality. It is intellectual theory which jives with neither the above or the below. For instance, relatively few students or writers have an accurate understanding of the three principles. This is about as basic as it gets and yet they make gross errors because they haven't bothered to prove their ideas in the inner or outer lab. I agree. See my previous post. Best, UFA

Fair enough. I highlighted the above so you could see where my confusion stemmed from. What leads you to believe I'm worked up? Hermeticism is a science and productive discussion of it calls for precision. What we see bandied around here in connection with it is typical popular Taoism and layers of hearsay and theory spewed by modern authors. Donald plays his role in promulgating and correcting muddled views on Platonism. I try to do the same when it comes to Hermeticism for the benefit of anyone truly interested in the subject (eg: not mere hobbyists). Everyone seems to have a different definition because few people have actually bothered to study the old texts and even fewer have been initiated under the watchful eye of an Adept. Paul Case devised an entire metaphysical practice around the color wheel, as did H Spencer Lewis as part of the AMORC teachings. Both were preceded - and likely inspired - by the Golden Dawn, who had their own uber-intellectual color scales. The birth of the Golden Dawn lies in the discovery of the Cipher Manuscripts. One version of the story behind these manuscripts states that they had their origin with an adept of the German Gold-und-Rosenkreuz. If that is true, it would indicate a connection (though a tenuous one) with the last publicly known Hermetic order which actively practiced alchemy. There is considerable doubt on the authenticity of this manuscript however. Furthermore, the cipher manuscripts (to my knowledge) contain no references to color attributions. So the evidence leads us to believe that what we are dealing with here is an artifact of 19th-century occult revival, which like so many other popular notions today, passes for "truth" simply because its origins have been buried in time and few people are willing to research them with a critical eye. This is not to say that we should reject everything simply on the basis that it is new. But we should be able to point to some evidence that it is both necessary and effective and that evidence is sorely lacking in this case (despite Anne Davies claims of miracle cures). As for what constitutes "true Hermeticism", it is not very mysterious and it is rather a simple thing to research on your own. We know an awful lot about the practices and philosophies of many Hermetic adepts between the 14th and 18th centuries. Much of it can be found online. Start with the academics (Jennifer Rampling has written some excellent papers), then proceed to AE Waite's "Secret Tradition" books, and then move on to the writings of the old adepts themselves. Curiosity will be well rewarded. Best, UFA

In the interest of pushing this conversation in the direction of Hassein's original question, I have decided to share one of my earlier experiences, as I wrote it at the time. Some background may be helpful. At the time, I had been having OBEs once every few days. With a few exceptions, I would find myself confined to a particular location with no other intelligences around. Any attempt to leave would result in immediate return to my physical body or on one occasion, a deliberate intercession by a dark entity which took on a shadow form. I have several observations about this about this particular OBE. First, that there is no "spiritual meaning" behind it. It is simply an experience, with perhaps no other significance in that it contributed to my growing awareness of non-physical consciousness. Second, it was the first time that I tried to use my voice while out of body and I found it very difficult. Third, the ordinary cognitive faculty Ruach) does not function in the usual manner while in this state; I find it typically operates at a reduced level of activity and that is the case here. I lay awake for quite a long time, though drifting every so often into a light dream state. I wake from a light sleep feeling my legs floating above me. I grow tired of this and decide to see if I can lift my head out. I push up and my head and chest lift up. I do this a number of times, but never get free. Finally, with a big push I exit completely. I wave my arms in front of me and they become visible. I am in a small room. Everything seems a bit fuzzy, not quite real. It looks to be a messy dorm room. I walk out into the hall. I decide to ask for assistance… “if anyone is here…” but my voice cuts out. It is but a tiny whisper. I try again, “if someone is here and can hear me, please help me…” my voice is croaking. I have never tried to speak out loud before. I go in another room and look around. I could try to leave this place but decide instead to search for a phone. I find one in a third room. It’s an old rotary phone. I pick it up and hear a bell clinging inside. I look closely at it and the dial turns into a jumble of push buttons. I am not surprised that all of the numbers aren't there, but I see a “4” in the middle along with the number "1". It gives me an idea. I pick up the phone but there is no dial tone. I dial “411”. [Note: this is the old US phone number for general information] I wait… there is no ring. I think to myself that this is not leading anywhere. But I continue to wait anyway. Finally, I hear a voice. It is garbled at first but I focus my hearing and eventually the words become clear. It’s a woman’s voice. It sounds like a recording and I pick it up in the middle of a sentence: "...distributed communication. You have requested original level translocation..." Everything goes dark and I wake up.

I could not say from personal experience, though many have said as much. I do not measure my ruler by other rulers. What I do know is that the paths differ for very good reasons. Some are gentle, long and winding, others are steep and straight, most end abruptly well short of the goal. It is as it should be, as we are not born with the same temperaments or abilities. But all paths begin in the fog of self-deception and ignorance. The way up entails an acceptance that what one needs to hear is the opposite of what they would like to hear. Few possess the humility to break free of intellectual pride. Best, UFA

It seems that we agree in large part so I'm guessing that you misunderstood my comment about mainstream occult BS. It was directed specifically at the color wheel stuff. Best, UFA

In the sense that color exercises and theories were introduced by later authors in response to imaginations coming from the 19th century occult revival. They do not play a role in traditional Hermetic training. My objection is not on the grounds of traditionalism but simply that these later additions contribute nothing in the way of effectiveness... and merely one's progress in what was originally a very fast, very efficient method. Best, UFA

Cheers, Hassein. I would advise against attempting to mix eastern and western systems. The two should be considered separate animals for a variety of reasons but having stated that caution, I will move on (and for future reference, I will not answer any questions regarding eastern systems or which are stated in eastern terminology). Yes. I have had many experiences in this state of consciousness. My experiences are diverse and I'm not quite sure where to begin. It is a lot like if I were to ask you, "What are your experiences in daily life?" Would you start by telling me about your commute? Your childhood? Your aspirations? Who you spoke with that day? So I will arbitrarily choose to start with the notion that nothing in this state of consciousness is inherently truthful or "spiritual". It is simply the lunar consciousness, eg: that state of consciousness one ordinarily experiences after the death of the physical body. Some Qabalists would refer to it as the Yetziratic world, occultists may refer to it as the astral plane. A modern alchemist (such as yours truly) would simply refer to it as part of the esosphere. Astral isn't a great term but it works for a lot of people, so I'll use it here. This place is considerably less restrained by ordinary physical laws and thus it is far vaster and more complicated that our everyday reality. It consists of an uncountable number of places which are separated by total sensory blackness, what I refer to as "voids". There are usually other intelligences in these places and they may interact with you. Some of these intelligences are human and are intimately familiar with our customs and manners (and sometimes they will even poke fun at you for your clumsiness!) Most of these places are unreachable by the average individual. In fact, most experiences one has here simply take place in a "virtual copy" of one's physical location... This is an astral location comprised of the mental image one has of a familiar place (eg: typically one's bedroom). When one reads about "sleep paralysis", a state in which their body cannot move and yet one sees one's bedroom through their closed eyes, it is taking place here. One is usually alone here but not always... frightening encounters with entities staring over one's body are not uncommon (this intrusion may in fact be what triggers the state, but I digress). The next place one will encounter is a place that I consider to be akin to the common notions of "purgatory". It is a mental construct symbolic of one's temporal (eg: lower) consciousness. It is in this place that one confronts that which they've repressed in their life... and I believe that this confrontation is often experienced violently... or at least in a manner which will induce a great deal of fear. So as an example, my early childhood experiences instilled a deep fear of loneliness which I had long repressed in my adult life. As I began to awaken to this level of consciousness, I almost always "awoke" in my childhood bedroom. As I learned to wander the house, I discovered that it was almost always deserted. Only once did I encounter my mother, who said something very cryptic and disturbing to me. For a long time I was trapped in this place, unable to leave. I believe that in the ordinary course of events, after one's death they find themselves here and they are forced to confront the very things which they ran from in life, again and again, until such time as they have developed the Understanding to move on and incarnate again. In contrast, I believe that those who have developed sufficient Wisdom and Understanding of the lessons of physical life and have come into contact with their Higher Genius pass on to the Briatic world... they attain conscious immortality and begin to carry on the Greater Work. Interestingly, one of the first stages in Initiatic training is the experience of the Dweller on the Threshold. Once this encounter has been successfully passed, the Initiate is no longer bound to this place. It is the nature of alchemy to speed up the natural course of events and this includes the post-death cycle as well. To put it differently, though I was confined to it for a long period of time, "Purgatory" no longer exists for me. People who are genuinely seeking spiritual illumination can find help and guidance from some of the inhabitants on the so-called astral plane. For me, this guidance has included instruction in how to strengthen the astral body... which is naturally very weak and unable to do much (at least in my case). The astral consciousness must indeed be developed. In the early stages, one finds that they are unable to leave the confines of their physical body. Walking is the next challenge. Then interacting with objects (such as doors) as well as learning the proper use of vision (eg: if you stare at something, you will zoom into it, like a microscope). Flying comes later. As the body strengthens, the senses grow stronger. It is very common to experience partial astral awareness, such as having simultaneous awareness of the astral in one part of the body and physical awareness in the rest. For instance, I once woke up, aware of my legs flying through a dark tunnel while upper body remained in bed. My legs proceeded to have an interaction with an astral intelligence who was working on them, not completely unlike receiving a massage. Oftentimes, only a single sense is active... for instance, astral vision can be experienced while the rest of the senses remain grounded in the physical (this is very frustrating, btw). In my journeys, I find it very useful to exercise all of the senses, especially the senses of smell and taste, before proceeding to do anything more taxing. An example of this: I awoke one time, unable to move and aware of an individual diagnosing my body. I could hear and see, but was unable to move or feel. This individual was speaking to another, who I could not sense and after several minutes, I realized that she was a doctor of some kind (I met her again several months later and we had an interesting conversation but that is a story for another day). The greatest challenge of all, however, is changing locations. There is a technique for it but it requires considerable "astral vitality" (a phrase I just made up for lack of any other). This likely takes many years to develop and I am not yet able to travel reliably. Adding to this is the complication that there exists entities whose primary purpose is to prevent this from occurring... it is these same entities that prevent one from simply leaving "purgatory" before they are ready, and I suspect these have played no small part in feeding the notions of devils and demons throughout history. There's nothing confusing or dogmatic about it. It is simple fact. An infant cannot walk, run, speak or do most things. It is only in the normal course of development that he learns to interact with his environment. The same takes place in the astral realm. I could see this being the case, though I also think it is kind of pointless to speculate on the true nature of the relationship between two highly enigmatic individuals, much less making the attempt a century later. I personally believe that some development of the astral body is conducive for forging a link with higher states of intelligence (specifically, man's divine nature). Some individuals with a naturally mystic or artistic inclination are probably more developed and thus downplay the importance of this. Life finds its own way and it seems to have a knack for undermining our logical notions of how things should be done. At the same time, astral experiences are a means, not an ends... and it is easy to fall victim to their glamorous and illusory nature. They will develop naturally as you say. In the course of the next ten or hundred thousand years, I suspect most of us here will be perfectly proficient in our yetziratic and briatic vehicles. No special effort is required as long as one is content to wait that long. But they can be developed much faster through certain practices, such as alchemical work in the vegetable kingdom. Good idea if for no other reason that they have very little in common. So you said two very different things there. I believe it is entirely misleading to use the phrase, "transferring your awareness into it". One does not "transfer awareness" as if it some kind of teleportation technology. I mention this because it is a phrase which mislead me for many years and I know from personal experience that it gives rise to a very erroneous notion. Though you went on to say that "the trick is developing awareness of it"... which is very much the case. But as I mentioned above, the astral body can and in fact, must be built (and it is a body, make no doubt... consciousness cannot exist without a vehicle of expression). Whether this happens accidentally in the course of one's practice, naturally by virtue of temperament or evolution, or artificially (artfully) via other means, it must be done. If it wasn't necessary, then we would all simply be able to do it... but such is not the case. No offense, but none of this is true Hermeticism... just mainstream occult BS. Best, UFA

Thanks, Bud. You are truly a light on this forum. :-) Best, UFA

I do not pretend to know anything about the Abyss. What you have written here describes the serpent's gate well however... does that ring a bell? Best, UFA

Oh boy. I don't think I'm the Huckleberry you're looking for. Best, UFA

And...? What does that mean in practical terms? Let's try this a different way: do you believe that the Illuminati exist and if so, who are they and how do they operate? Best, UFA

Yes, thank you for clarifying what I wrote in my post for anyone who wasn't aware of the Hebrew spelling. So are you going to add anything of substance here or was this post simply intended as an announcement of some sort? Best, UFA

I'll start with these two and have another round in 10 minutes. UFA

I'm your Huckleberry. 73 is the number of Chokmah, wisdom and the 2nd Sephira. There are 73 gates of wisdom which lead to Shekhinah, the mysterious container of wisdom which descends upon the temple of Solomon. She is invisible daughter of the King, yet is sought by his sons, so that they may marry her. She is our beautiful vessel, the Graal itself. So I agree very much with the spirit of your statement, eg: that 73 is the number of Illuminati (though not the ones of the necessarily Bavarian variety). The real question is, would you recognize an Illuminati if one handed you a dollar bill? UFA

Actually, I find the notion of celestial bodies having their own distinct intelligences (which can be explored mystically) to be plausible from an esoteric standpoint. But this takes us far beyond modern astrology, which is what I was directing my comments at. I'm apparently not stating it very well but am working on some other things at the moment and don't have time to dig up my references which would probably explain it to your satisfaction. Essentially however, the position of the stars have a consistent relationship with the ecliptic and celestial equators as the earth travels around the sun. And though the position of the stars relative to these two planes slowly changes over time, this theory holds that the stars themselves have little influence relative to the the sun and planetary bodies and that the alleged astrological effects result from the angle at which the planetary astral energies strike the earth, rather than the stars themselves. Thus, precession of the equinoxes is explained away as being a mere changing of the "sky markers". Again, this is not my theory. I personally believe that modern astrology is largely BS and that ideas like these spring from an apologist attitude which tries to explain old theories using pseudo-science, completely ignoring the fact that astrology has very little empirical support. UFA

I didn't bother. I have no interest in pop astrology, not even in dismantling it. I absolutely agree that many consider the fixed stars to have specific influences. That is an exoteric belief, not an esoteric one. The viewpoint that I described is that the zodiacal influences were not from the stars themselves, but a result of the angle formed between the earth, sun, and earth's orbit around the sun. Nope. Those are not my own ideas. I propose that almost all of astrology is utter bunk beyond the utility it serves as a psychological mirror, a medium for story telling and a framework for mystical thought. I believe that there are some interesting and potentially provable correlations between the sun, moon, horizon and their transits with natural phenomena but I have seen nothing so far which suggests causality. I also believe the the study and development of astrology played an important role in the historical development of human consciousness, but this role has been supplanted by science and technology, which now captures the attention of modern men. So I go on record as a curious example of a modern alchemist who holds that astrology plays no role of importance in the Work. Best, UFA

Hi Fate, It's good that noticed this and even better that you raise the question. It demonstrates the courage to think critically when the naked emperor comes waltzing by. You are referring to the precession of the equinoxes, the consequence of a 26,000 year cycle in which the relative positions of the stars gradually shift in the night sky. Astrology, as understood popularly, can indeed to be viewed to be incorrect or even blatantly disproven on these grounds. However, what is not popularly understood is the astrological concept that the zodiacal "energies" are not a consequence of the stars themselves, but of the angle of the earth both relative to the sun, planets, and the path of its own rotation in our solar system. In other words, the stars were simply a convenient way (in fact, the only way) to record the position of man on the ground at the time that astrology began to be studied. The markers may have moved, but the areas of energetic influence remain unchanged. Taken from this viewpoint, while the precession of the equinoxes may be the outer manifestation of some greater cycle for mankind as a whole, it has no other bearing on astrological interpretation. I believe this is a reasonable summary of the esoteric answer to your question. However, this should not be interpreted as my own personal viewpoint. I personally believe that the reality which lies behind astrology is much different than the average occultist or astrologer believes. Best, UFA

Hi Maldor, >I view the practice of Magick as the discipline of self hypnosis. Altering your will to fit your means. Obviously thi scan be a dangerous practice. Also I am convinced the vast majority of mysticism is directly related to altered states of consciousness (ASC's). I am not sure how anyone could disagree with you that mysticism is directly related to altered states of consciousness. That is really the entire point, IMO. The bigger question is what how far does consciousness reach and what are its possibilities? UFA

There are many reasons for this, though if any can be said to be authoritative, I don't know. One of my favorite explanations is that Stone in Hebrew is spelled ABN. AB means "Father" and BN (Ben) means "Son". Thus the Stone is the union of the Father and Son, the full conscious awareness of Unity found within a human being. I don't know if this is historically accurate but it very well may be, as the word "Stone" is frequently used in the Bible. The stone is also said to be incombustible in fire as it is a perfect union of the three principles (Sulphur, Mercury and Salt), four if you count Paracelsus' principle of Glass, which is said to give it hardness. There are many other explanations but in the end, they are all just signs pointing the way towards a deeper truth. UFA

It is difficult to respond constructively to such a vague statement but I will attempt to do so anyway. I believe the first point that you are making is that the alchemists spoke in metaphors. This is undenably true. We find many quotes along the following lines supporting it: "I will open my mouth in parables, and declare things hidden from the foundation of the world ." - Sophic Hydrolith Where I believe you are being led into error is in believing that you understand the meaning of these metaphors and more specifically, that they do not refer to literal physical substances and processes. To be fair, the intent of the metaphorical language is to mislead people into making precisely this error (among many others). There are four groups of alchemical researchers who we can turn to for guidance. First, there are the academic researchers who are AFAIK in unanimous agreement that a literal, physical interpretation of alchemy is correct. For instance, we find at the Isacc Newton project a well-compiled glossary of his terms and their meanings (http://webapp1.dlib.indiana.edu/newton/reference/glossary.do) Another good read is Ferrario's, "Understanding the Language of Alchemy", a short paper published in 2009. I consider this point to be so self-evident that I would be wasting my time in providing further resources and will leave it to you to do a bit of searching to your satisfaction. Next, we have the serious esoteric researchers such as Manly Hall and A.E. Waite. The latter devotes about 280 pages to this very subject in his work, "Lives of Alchemystical Philosophers", giving it the exhaustive treatment it deserves. This book is mandatory reading on alchemy as far as I am concerned, but the short story is that he comes to a similar conclusion: the alchemists were dealing with physical substances for the purpose of spiritual transmutation. Our fourth group are what I call casual or mainstream spiritual practitioners, who undertaking no true research of original sources on their own, are blindly duped by mainstream authors into erroneous conclusions, such as alchemy being mere chemistry, alchemy being a psychological practice, or that alchemy refers to some type of internal energy practice (almost always borrowed from Yogic or Taoist traditions). A.E. Waite's book is helpful in correcting this misperception as well. However, I will tell you my theory which is based on research of texts spanning the period 1400-1920. Alchemy reached its peak in Europe in the 17th century, after which, researches steadily devolved into mere chemistry which was pursued primarily for industrial purposes. I find the last worthwhile alchemical text in this period to have been written in the mid-19th century and it was practically unknown. In lieu of genuine information (remember, the Internet was not available at this time so these works were difficult to come by), Atwood and Hitchcock published the first works asserting that alchemy was merely a cryptic spiritual or moralistic metaphor and these erroneous views were greedily absorbed and evolved by other authors, to this very day. Interestingly, we have since found evidence that the Golden Dawn possessed genuine alchemical manuscripts which they had somehow gained possession of from an authentic body of working adepts but apparently did not understand their meaning. Anyway, on to our fourth group: working alchemists. It is a small group, perhaps a couple of hundred at most worldwide and there are several ways of categorizing them. For the purpose of this discussion, I will divide them up into two groups, those who subscribe to the Albertus school and those who have been initiated into the authentic teachings of the ancient alchemists. The Albertus school includes many well-known and popular authors. I will not deny the much-needed attention that Albertus, Dubuis and others brought to the alchemical tradition. However, I personally define this school as subscribing to three viewpoints (which I consider to be provably erroneous). First, that ethanol is the universal vegetable mercury. Second, that astrology is required in any manner in the practice of alchemy. Third, a general notion that somehow the lab work is connected to inner states of consciousness, but no true insight into what this connection is (for instance, we find a vague framework by Dubuis which equates the vegetable work with Yetziratic states of consciousness and the mineral with Briatic states). Of those initiates of the old ways, I will simply say that their ways differ. UFA Edit: typos.

I'll reply as a side note here as it's not something I intend to discuss in much detail. I consider it to be the living Qabalah of the Hermetic scientists. This Qabalah differs from the mainstream (GD and other variants) in several respects. First, the seed is transmitted from master to novice. Second, the teaching is recovered in full by the student. Third, it unifies that which we commonly perceive as inner and outer. Fourth, it enables the successful practice of alchemy, without which is virtually impossible. Finally and most importantly, it is a practical and fast system of Spiritual Illumination. UFA

Perhaps. Your reply to my comment about the Hermetic Qabalah suggests that you consider Golden Dawn and Hermetic Qabalah to be the same. If that is not the case, then it was indeed a miscommunication. I couldn't tell you. Books aren't my thing. UFA