Michael Sternbach

Talking about going back to one's roots, I don't agree that this idea is limited to some special technique of Daoist Alchemy. Rather, the latter is a particular method to access a principle of universal validity. Once again, you will encounter the same principle in metaphysical systems as (seemingly) divergent as Zen Buddhism, Christian Gnosis and Tarot. On one level, it indeed refers to connecting back to our state of existence as children which surely lives on as our "inner child". Even Freudian psychoanalysis may reflect this. On another level, it is clear that few of us would like to literally and permanently regress to such a state. What we hope to achieve is a way of life that is analogous to a child's, but at the same time encompasses all the knowledge and experience which are the hard earned fruits of our decades of existence. So as we metaphorically go back to the origin, we do so on a higher winding of the spiral.

Even science begins to join in with the mystical conclusions that I referred to in my previous post, at least in the view of some of its representatives. For example, according to Roger Penrose's Conformal Cyclic Cosmology, all the matter in the Universe will (after an unspeakable number of years, a one followed by a hundred zeroes or so) turn into light. In such a Universe, metric space and time cease to exist; what you have is a state of infinity, which is yet nil. It is a singularity and the basis of another Big Bang. The Dao or Wu Chi brings forth the ten-thousand things. The kabbalistic En Soph Aur or Infinite Light manifests itself in the Tree of Life. The Hindu Universe goes into Pralaya or primeval chaos after an ineffable years in order to be born anew. It is fascinating for me to see, how the seemingly divergent perspectives of the mystics of the ages are hinting at and contributing to an understanding of ultimate reality.

I think it depends on your understanding of God. If your God is a being external to you, then you are not talking about the Dao. However, there is a non-dualist understanding at the heart of every religion, which only the mystics will grasp. The Bible saying that we should have no image of God, is that really different from Lao Tzu telling us that the Dao that can be defined is not the real Dao? I do think that the Dao conception shares with Deus attributes like being infinite, timeless, yet bringing forth the manifest world for which it is an organizing principle and force.

There is truth to what Teal is saying. True spirituality actually includes facing and illuminating shadow themes, as part of the process of enlightenment. But we can get stuck endlessly in darkness and negativity, as we amplify what we focus on. Many psychotherapies err on the negative side, imo. If you focus on problems, you will find problems. If you focus on positive solutions, you will find... guess what? We are treading a thin line here. It's all about proper balance.

Interesting books on the meditative and spiritual aspects of the internal martial arts have been written by Scott Meredith and Willard J Lamb.

Great spiritual teachers seem to be as flawed and troubled as geniuses in other areas. They all are manifesting strong "energies", and sometimes, the greater the light, the darker the shadows. A similar discussion on another thread recently helped me to see, however, that by integrating the parts of our own being, we also radiate this and act in more integrated, therefore constructive ways... unwittingly - as both Jesus and Lao Tzu taught. This is true virtue. But if by "virtue", we mean "morals", then no... An integrated individual will do what they think is right, regardless if others see it that way or not.

I define Daoism and other metaphysical systems as just that... Metaphysics.

Marblehead, I never read this translation of 'Tao Te Ching' before - I think it's brilliant!

Yes, one can take anything too far, including scepticism. This can even result in mental illness. Personally, I subscribe to an experimental way of life. I make clear assumptions, yet let further experience decide whether they hold true. So I look at my beliefs as working hypotheses, in principle. (Of course, some are pretty well established, meanwhile.) My attitude was directly influenced by the TTC at a time when I still somehow believed that an answer regarding Life, the Universe and Everything could indeed be found. I then happened to read in the TTC (somewhere) that the Universe eludes full comprehension. This helped me to put my mind at rest and continue my search for answers in a more playful and joyful manner, open to surprising expansions of my perspective. So, in short: Make uncertainty your friend!

Thanks for adding "Agrippa" to the title as I requested.

Most likely. Natural, Mathematical and Theological Philosophy referring to the natural, celestial and intellectual world respectively. The virtues in the world of the celestial bodies would be pure as they are in the realm of Ether or Quintessence beyond the Sub-lunar Sphere. Obviously, a lot of Alchemical practice is about freeing and purifying the virtues in a particular material.

This is a nice summary. A few remarks: I know of people projecting starlight into water by a telescope and marketing the products as "Starlight Elixirs". They rock... Except that the intellectual world for Agrippa is something that far transcends our mental boundaries and has an objective reality - it's the mind of God; it's His concepts! It's probably true that everything has all the "virtues" in it, but to varying degrees. That's a good clarification. Yes, he most certainly had to be careful not to get grilled.

A thread with hundreds of pages? Dividing work into their chapters works well on the Taoist forum. I wouldn't see any problem as the the build-up would be very gradual. Bear in mind that, if things go well, folks may keep talking for years about Agrippa.

Interesting and spot-on observations, Larxene. A few comments in elaboration of certain things that you have touched upon. The three worlds in Agrippa's model are different from, yet analogous to each other; and so are the entities inhabiting them. Agrippa naturally presupposes the ancient model of the universe consisting of crystal spheres around the earth, like every intellectual of his time. The concept was founded by the Greek astronomer Eudoxus and went through many mutations by different authors and over time, but remained the universally accepted cosmological model in the Islamic, Jewish as well as Christian dominions. Agrippa would certainly have been familiar with its Christian version attributed to Dionysius the Aeropagite in which the Holy Trinity resides beyond the spheres. Agrippa's "intellectual world" refers to the divine level of existence. ("Intellectual" in the ancient texts always meaning that something is of an archetypal or divine nature - it's not referring to making that grey mass between your ears steam. ) The divine light (etheric energy) is constantly being poured down through the spheres into the lower worlds. Entities in any of the kingdoms receive, embody and radiate the etheric light according to their own nature. Those of an analogous nature share the same kind of "celestial virtue" and are "sympathetic" with each other. Yes, the idea is that we can ascend through the spheres, eventually leaving the boundaries of space-time behind when crossing over Saturn. Whence we will come closer to the "intellectual world" of the archetypes, gods, angels - whatever they were called in different cultures. Of course, as a true Magician, you won't be satisfied with mystical unification with the divine powers but you will draw them right down into your earthly home. That things are imbued with certain virtues was taught in Neo-Platonism and Hermeticism; in a magical context it can be found i.e. in the Asclepius.

Larxene, I was thinking something like that myself. I wouldn't say that this or other TTB threads are messy, but since most people here are spontaneous Daoists uttering whatever comes to their mind, the threads easily get a little... non-linear. For reasons of progress with the topic, it's good to have an organized thinker like you on board. BKA, what if you would open up a new thread when you post a new chapter? This way, people can keep commenting on earlier chapters, when they have new insights, while the focus will be on the latest thread which will be easier to keep neat.

Hi DreamBliss, Interesting thread... I think there is a lot of truth to both attitudes: the one of the Magus and the one of the Mystic; they complement each other. To find the right balance here seems to be part of your inner alchemical process. It's a question to me, as well... As Yasuja (btw, welcome to the forum, I read your posts with interest ) admits, you can tell the Universe what you wish - but then you shouldn't keep clinging to it. A. Bailey somewhere wrote something to the effect that Magicians would be much more powerful in their manifestations if they knew how to let go of their thoughts. As I understand from several of your posts, you tend to try to force certain things in your mind. Maybe some Christian-inspired self-castigation thingie happening in the subconscious mind? What is helping me with requests to the Universe is to make a little rite out of them, using Tarot cards, crystals, candles of different colours, incense, stuff like that. The Universe and/or subconscious mind likes that. It's actually a kind of taking action yourself on the physical level, beyond purely mental effort. Even symbolical action will signal to the Universe that you mean it. Anything else? Not right now... I may stop in again later.

Oh, that's a rather easy one: Honey holding my hand = GOOD My hand touching glowing hotplate = BAD That being said, I know what you are talking about: The mind dwelling in dualities of all kinds and not seeing the unity underlying it.

All the planets and stars are emanating their "aura" like living beings (which they are). Some of their emanations belong to the physical universe; others don't.

Chapter 1: Why shouldn't there be etheric "rays" coming from the stars? This was generally assumed in ancient astrology, magic and alchemy. Even Nikola Tesla believed in something like this. From my experience, those rays can even be seen by the eye under certain circumstances. There is an illustration in the "Mutus Liber" showing what they look like to psychic perception - they come "raining down" on Earth.

I had a dog called Athena. She was so lovely... when she barked it reminded me of the terrible battle cry of the Goddess when she was born from her father's head. Athena was also the muse or (some might say) HGA of Giordano Bruno, another Renaissance magus; he was strongly influenced by Agrippa, who was his hero. You don't need to be THAT traditional in order to be traditional. You CAN even be a Golden Dawn traditionalist, btw (I know that you are not). But let's not get sidetracked and start fighting about the better system... let's see what we can learn from Agrippa.

Nice web-page, BKA. "Athena" is another alter ego of yours? The Goddess of War and Art - why am I not surprised... Larxene, you should know that BKA is somewhat of a purist. Therefore I think you and her will get along well with each other... BKA, I will try to empty my cup for Agrippa. Make sure you fill it with delicious wine! I'm looking forward to it.

Yes, we have geniuses, too - but we don't have "plenty" of researchers of Tesla's calibre! There is not more than one or a few around (at best) at any given time in history; people like Kopernikus, Da Vinci, Bruno, Newton, Faraday, Maxwell, Einstein... Some hype around them is inevitable like with any very popular person - certainly Tesla's mysterious, seclusive life style contributed to this. No, he wasn't an extra-terrestrial, nor did he fake his death in order to fly away to Venus. He is not residing at the Mars Face either. But considering the topics he explored, it is not surprising that he became a part of esoteric culture -, and it's not totally inappropriate, in fact.

eye_of_the_storm wrote: "Love is the law, love under will." Aleister Crowley

Nikola Tesla wrote in "Man's Greatest Achievement" The references to Akasha and Prana are interesting, especially if we consider that Tesla met Swami Vivekananda in the 1890s and apparently was influenced by him in his "natural philosophy". Here's more: http://www.quora.com/Did-Nikola-Tesla-really-meet-Swami-Vivekananda