Michael Sternbach

Yes, the physical body itself represents all those three aspects of existence. Moreover, the Freudian model of the personality with its distinctive three levels comes to mind: The 'id' is responsible for our 'animalistic' psychological drives, deeply rooted in the unconscious zone, but also tied in with physiological reactions. The 'superego' corresponds with our divine self - even though in Freud's atheist world view this was turned into nothing more than an image or sociocultural construct designed to provide the individual with a sense of security and internalized moral guidance. Whereas the function of the 'ego' is to mediate between the two, seeking to keep a precarious balance.

Hmm, yes; it's conceivable that this curious story should be read metaphorically and actually refers to an internal process that properly belongs to neidan rather than to waidan. And while this may be the earliest (known) text on waidan Chinese alchemy, the inclusion of several characteristic requisites for the practice of its external form strongly suggests that it actually refers to a longstanding tradition of the latter, albeit used symbolically to illustrate an internal process.

Yes indeed, this story seems already garbled. The procedure described in it has little to do with actual alchemy. If anything, it belongs to the field of magic and theurgy. Many aspiring alchemists indeed !ost their lives throughout the ages. Just like alot of people meet their Maker while engaged in mountain climbing. In either case, if one doesn't have the required physical and mental attributes, knowledge and equipment, it would be better for them to stay away from those activities. Neidan is a viable way of spiritual transformation. So are Waidan and most forms of Western alchemy, though. They both require the practitioner to carry the spiritual transformative power all the way into physical matter. It is this very union of spirit and matter that alchemy in its purest form is characterised by. Or as the famous Emerald Tablet puts it: "Its power is entire if it be converted into earth."

Regarding the discussion whether the Elixir is to be considered an internal or an external agent, I think we need to take the distinction between Neidan and Waidan into account. - Conveniently, Wikipedia got this one quite right. Waidan, translated as external alchemy or external elixir, is the early branch of Chinese alchemy that focuses upon compounding elixirs of immortality by heating minerals, metals, and other natural substances in a luted crucible. The later branch of esoteric neidan "inner alchemy", which borrowed doctrines and vocabulary from exoteric waidan, is based on allegorically producing elixirs within the practitioner's body, through Daoist meditation, diet, and physiological practices. By the way, one of the borrowed terms alluded to here is non other than dantian, which literally means "cinnabar field" - cinnabar and its two components sulfur and mercury being substances that play an important role in Chinese alchemy, but also in its Western equivalent.

At least as far as "external practice" (i.e., in the laboratory) and its underlying concepts are concerned, there are definitely many parallels. I find Joseph Needham's extensive work particularly enlightening in this regard.

Yes, alchemy has been regarded as a spiritual science right from its earliest known sources in Hellenistic times. However, it has also been a hands-on laboratory practice ever from its very beginnings. The erroneous belief that the so-called Great Work (the creation of the Philosopher's Stone) was exclusively an internal process (at most projected onto chemical processes that practitioners at the time actually had little understanding of) was taken up even by C.G.Jung - a statement he earned much criticism for, and in this case deservedly so. Meanwhile, modern academics like William R. Newman and Lawrence Principe did an excellent job showing the intricate laboratory practices employed by some of the best known alchemists as well as the elaborate theories of natural philosophy they were based on. But despite their shortcomings, Jung's alchemical studies were valuable in their own right, as they served to correct the then-prevalent view of alchemy as nothing more than a form of protochemistry pursued by naïve and superstitious practitioners and to demonstrate its connection to occidental metaphysical traditions such as Hermetism and Gnosis. You said that well.

In the view of ancient natural philosophy (whose revival in a modernized form I strongly advocate), it's the subtle realm of the Soul of the World that bridges the gap between the Spirit of the World in its celestial Divinity and the terrestrial plane that we are so familiar with and that is essentially regarded as its physical body. (Beware that in the old texts, sometimes "spirit" and "soul" are used with reversed meanings, however.) Now as Man is considered a microcosm that contains all the constituents of the macrocosm en miniature, you will find the same kind of three-fold existence on both levels: body, soul and spirit. Further breakdowns are possible - and endless variations thereof have been attempted in many metaphysical systems - but the trinary model I outlined is a basic conception that can probably count as the common denominator of them all.

Thanks for posting this, Taomeow. This refers to Penrose's Conformal Cyclic Cosmology (CCC) which IMO is the most intriguing variation of the more conventional form of Big Bang theory that he himself helped establish back in the day. I find it intriguing because it reconciles the modern scientific conception of the history of our universe with the kind of cyclic view so prevalent in Eastern and other metaphysical systems. Eight years ago, I attended a physics congress in Lucerne (Switzerland) where Penrose introduced his CCC. As soon as the opportunity arose, I grabbed one of the microphones that were offered to the audience and presented my own spontaneous thoughts on how this theory resonated with views traditionally held by the Kabbalah and Hinduism. The reply I received from one of Penrose's close associates was telling... He informed me that, even though they (the cosmologists) don't mind me connecting science and religion, that kind of consideration was entirely outside their scope as scientists. This once again reminded me of the Cartesian divide that contemporary natural scientists make between the physical universe they feel so very competent to talk about and the transcendent, including those "last questions" that pertain to it - whose exploration they gladly leave to the philosophers and crackpots. While this attitude may seem fair enough overall, it is obviously a far cry from the kind of natural philosophy that was founded by the ancient Greeks and culminated in the teachings of the Renaissance scientist and metaphysicist Giordano Bruno who was burned at the stake for discussing the mind of God in conjunction with his cosmological vision of an infinite universe. Well, since then the Church has fortunately lost its stifling grip on the liberal expression of intellectual thought, and while Penrose and his colleagues themselves may not be willing or able to close the gap once opened by their predecessors during the Scientific Revolution, I maintain that innovative models such as CCC could potentially contribute to a revival of the holistic natural philosophy of the ancients, albeit updated to include modern-day knowledge and conceptions.

Rock garden

Yes, they are indeed archetypes and templates respectively that are manifested, not so much in representation of, but in form of particular qualities or mindsets. But then, what are the archetypes? The term originated from Platonic philosophy, where it referred to prototypical ideas existing in the Spirit of the World. As such, they are not the templates for the human mind alone, but in fact for the entire universe. Bear in mind that in the metaphysical view, the manifested world is not the primary reality but ever springs forth from the mind of the Divine. Now each time and place has its own view of the archetypes, coloured by specific cultural attributes. The deities of various cultures can be compared to each other, however (as far as it goes, anyway). It deserves mentioning that such is not the result of some jumbled 'New Age' thinking, but a practice already common in ancient times, for example when the Greeks and Egyptians likened their deities to each other (e.g., Hermes, Hephaistos and Athena were essentially seen as other forms of Thoth, Ptah and Neith, to name just a few). To properly understand the doctrine of Archetypes, it is important to remember that according to metaphysical philosophy (ranging from the ancient mystery religions all the way to modern Theosophy), Man represents all of Creation, and that the external ever reflects the internal. As above, so below. As within, so without.

Edge of the world

Regardless of how we look at the rather complex question of the origin of our emotions, I consider this understanding of the unity of thinking/feeling/body systems/acting key to the holistic understanding of our nature. It is not arbitrary, but follows rather specific patterns studied e.g. in TCM and Western astrology. All these: thought, emotion, body, action - each on their respective level - lend expression to forces that we can indeed think of as the deities or archetypes that underlie (or stand above!) the structure of the manifested world and that pertain to what is seen as spirit in the metaphysical systems of various cultures.

That's an awesome story, Nungers! Reminiscent of the Shamanic teaching that the very demons that torment the initiate turn into a source of power once (s)he gained control over them. A principle that is applicable to so-called negative emotions in general - consistent with what I shared regarding the Hermetic way of transforming emotions in Apech's other current thread "Emotions are the Path". Lovely pet you have there, BTW.

I agree, Manitou. When dealing with intense emotions, it is best to accept them for what they are and "dance" with them. The water course way as it were.

In the Hermetic view, potentially destructive emotions are basically the distorted image of positive emotions and emotional attitudes respectively. Thus, when we experience hate, we may actually be aspiring to developing love, according to the mandate of our soul or higher self. Or we may be inclined towards criticism in order to understand tolerance, or towards fear for learning courage, and so on. Hermetism indeed includes methods of transmuting one into the other which are alchemical in nature. One of the texts that talk about this is the famous Kybalion.

Khemenu was called Hermopolis by the Greek because it was a place of worship for the wisdom and magic god Thoth (Hermes for the Greeks) already. Thoth was considered a Moon god, so there we may have a connection to the moist, nocturnal, "chaotic" origin of the ogdoas. Moreover, the link of those eight primordial deities to infinity you mentioned is quite remarkable, as the mathematical symbol for infinity is a figure eight lying on its side. We see this symbol floating above the head of the Magician in the Tarot - most explicitly in the Rider-Waite version, but hinted at in earlier decks as well. And of course, this Magician was identified with Hermes/Thoth by the Hermetic Order of the Golden Dawn, whose teachings so many Tarot decks are (directly or indirectly) based on. Furthermore, one of the most characteristic symbols of Hermes/Thoth is the caducaeus or wand with the double serpents representing the solar and lunar energy respectively. This symbol is related to the three channels located in the area of the spine according both to Yogic philosophy and to Tibetan Buddhism, and therefore with kundalini, 'the serpent power' (see Arthur Avalon's classic with the same title). Comes to mind that there was another deity, called Shepsi, worshipped in Khemenu from the 18th dynasty on. Shepsi had some lunar attributes as well, even though was essentially a Sun god, sometimes depicted with the solar disk on top of his head. At the time, he was attributed with having created the ogdoas in the first place. It is quite fascinating to see how these various characters and symbols revolve and evolve around common themes over the course of millenia and throughout different cultures.

Lexx

Pink Floyd

Hasta la vista, baby!

Hi Celestial Master I am Star-Lord. Nice meeting you!

THX1138

Obliterating

De rien

Mayonnaise

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