Michael Sternbach

What if a state of primordial chaos is actually as empty as it gets? I doubt it. There just does not seem to be emptiness that wouldn't be seething with potential, neither in physics nor in metaphysics. Maybe it is our notion of emptiness (as commonly understood) that needs to be reconsidered then - like it or not. Physicists drew this inevitable conclusion long ago. Maybe it's time that we 'metaphysicists' catch up? In fact, I believe that DDJ ch. 21 refers to this fathomless state of 'non-being' as well: "Tao, considered as an entity, is obscure and vague. Vague and obscure! Yet within it there is Form. Obscure and vague! Yet within it there is Substance. Vacuous and unfathomable! Yet within it there is Quintessential Energy—and this is supremely real." Well, for me, the term 'waters' here invokes something like amniotic fluid. At any rate, something that suggests a state of pre-existence. And what happens next? "And God said, 'Let there be light,' and there was light. 4 God saw that the light was good, and he separated the light from the darkness." So now Logos comes into play... And God separates the previously intermingled forces from one another! That sounds really close to both the aforementioned Greek conception as well as to the Chinese conception (from Wu chi to Tai chi), don't you think?

On the Tree of Life, knowledge belongs to the zone beneath the Abyss that separates the Supernal Triad from the rest of Creation. In this view, knowledge is of necessity imperfect; it is discursive and involves contradiction. Understanding on the other hand is direct and holistic. It is ultimately based on intuition and will become available to full extent only once the Abyss has been crossed. Some traditions call this same process 'enlightenment'. Hope this helps.

Interestingly, the two are closely associated with each other. And it is not only the co-existence of Wu chi with Hundun in Chinese natural philosophy that seems to speak to this... In Genesis 1, 2 we read: "Now the earth was formless and empty ... " According to Greek conception, there once was a primordial chaos, in which the elements were not really separated from each other yet, but existed in a state of turmoil and constant mutual cancellation. And even in quantum physics, the vacuum has been found to actually be boiling with the ceaseless activity of particle/anti-particle couples popping into existence and annihilating each other again in the blink of an eye. So there is no contradiction to the view I proposed to be found there, IMO.

I beg to differ. God is the creator of individuality, not its destroyer. And the realisation of its divinity expands the self, but doesn't destroy it either. (There is the danger of ego inflation there, but that would be a topic of its own.)

Hi Bindi Here is how I look at this topic: Daoist emptiness refers to original emptiness before creation began. Buddhist emptiness refers to emptiness as it exists within creation. The two are one, as after all, those polarities that original emptiness split up into cancel one another out. This is symbolized by Wu chi turning into Tai chi, but the latter is still contained within the original circle of the former. So Buddhism aspires to look beyond the apparent duality and recognize their underlying unity (thus emptiness) - which never really ceased to exist.

It's not that God isn't aware of being you. It's you who aren't aware of being God.

Or developing them to undreamt-of heights.

I doubt that Chuang tzu would have cared about making that kind of distinction.

Actually, as an enthusiastic student of old scientific literature (in the areas of both occult and natural sciences), I am frequently amazed what little known gems can be found there.

I was able to retrieve the book. Lo and behold, it was written in English originally! Here you go: https://www.amazon.com/Grace-Unfolding-Psychotherapy-Spirit-Tao-te/dp/0517881306/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1541280934&sr=8-1&keywords=grace+unfolding+psychotherapy+in+the+spirit+of+tao-te+ching&dpID=41i3BoL4fWL&preST=_SY291_BO1,204,203,200_QL40_&dpSrc=srch Highly recommended. If you decide to read it, would you mind giving me some feedback on how you like it?

Hello Juliette And welcome to the forums. As you have found, trying to clear your mind of dark thoughts by relaxation techniques or even by changing your diet won't help you much, as long as something inside you keeps bringing them forth. This comes down to some of the beliefs you hold about yourself and/or the world you live in. Some of them may be in need of recognition and reconsideration in order to change the way you feel for good. Will be happy to talk about this more, if you wish. Cheers Michael

Yes, but even that can go too far... Suffocating the other person as well as yourself.

Your sound art is beautiful! 'Ancient people' is a bit of a broad term, but yes, I would agree there was a decline in some respects. However, this is a rather complex topic.

As there is a difference between being religious and being spiritual. Extreme religiousness can be disastrous to oneself and others. Deep spirituality is a different matter.

Note that there is a significant difference between religious instititions and genuine living spirituality. True seekers may or may not use the frameworks provided by the former, but at any rate, they are the exception, not the rule.

I don't get that the 'average Joe' is spiritually more advanced there than in Western cultures.

Spiritual traditions agree that the average individual lives in a permanent state of delusion. And politics by and large are the sad collective expression of that delusion. If more people would be following the advice of the sages and cultivating, many problems would simply cease to exist. Much like shadow in the light of the sun. Treat causes, not effects! And that's why I generally emphasize the focus on a spiritual way of thinking and living over too much involvement in practical affairs. However, I realize that different folks are dealing with different questions and tasks. And that's fine.

I'm not sure, but I will see what I can do...

Good question. I would say, where devotion goes so extreme that it becomes a destructive force towards oneself and/or others. That said, it may bring forth something of value nevertheless. Many a genius has been obsessed by their pursuits...

Do you happen to read German? There was a wonderful book on the Daoist approach to psychotherapy published in that language some 30 years ago. I can't remember its title right now, but I may be able to find out, if you (or somebody else reading this) really wants to know.

Great story. There is a version of it using a Sufi rather than a Buddhist context, bad that's of no consequence. It nicely illustrates what I always suspected and which my experience proved right: Devotion has nothing to do with whatever fuss one makes about a thing. It is one's silent and genuine action which only counts.

Cool. Now consider that you may be fulfilling your cosmic mission by pursuing your dad mission. For if you succeed in making this planet a better place (to whatever degree), it really doesn't matter who has motivated to do this - everybody will benefit, at least potentially. And looking at it that way, every being is indeed part of the plan of the cosmos which created that being to fulfill its 'mission', however big or small its contribution may be.

In my view, everybody has the planets, stars and whole Universe in them. The macrocosm became a microcosm. The soul is from the stars. That said, some are more aware of it than others.

I have many of Dr. Yang's books, though not that one yet. But it's on my reading list now. Thanks for bringing it to my attention. Though I obviously can't comment on this book without having read it yet, Dr. Yang does know what he's talking about when it comes to qigong and related topics.