Michael Sternbach

After much reflection, I did come to accept the division into science, philosophy and spirituality (which term I prefer over 'religion') as useful, and the three types of Daoism you mentioned reflect that scheme. But I agree that we shouldn't label Daoist topics too rigorously. That would not be in keeping with the spirit of this philosophy... Err, religion... Um, whatever...

Well, I have remotely checked out people's physical and mental condition many times and on some occasions also identified remote objects (the latter with varying degrees of success), using a mixture of internal visual, auditory and tactile sensations. The "mind's eye" is my primary mode of perception, though; I understand that others' mileage may vary.

How about this: The Daoist that can be defined is not the real Daoist?

Summary of historical background for the sake of the interested third-party reader: The Art of War is a topic I inherited when the original OP announced he could no longer sustain it for personal reasons. Go follow Ilumairen's link above and look it up, folks; it's really a fun thread! Besides a systematic discussion of Sun Tzu's famous book on strategy and warfare, for illustrative purposes, the participants developed a story around a military conflict between 'General Stosh Tzu' and myself (from page 12 on). For the latter had kidnapped the Jade Princess and held the hapless (?) lady captive in a cave full with 'lustrous dwarfs'. Understandably enough, I was sent on a mission to free her by her desperate father, His Majesty, the emperor. At first, Stosh Tzu and I both held our own; the battle between us was tedious and didn't seem to be going anywhere. At some stage, Stosh proposed that we each collaborate with one of the remaining topic participants as our partner. Marblehead was assigned to me (whom I appreciated for his - real-life - strategical expertise), while Stosh decided that Ilumairen should side with him. However, he had neglected to ask her for her approval first (actually, she didn't hide the fact that she was rather critical of his aggressive attitude right from the start). Anyway, enjoying his trust as a member of his army and resorting to her (BTW, real-life) skills as a herbalist, she seemed to tend well to his soldier's well-being at first. However, she turned out to be a *Trojan horse*, "refining" their food with herbs that in fact had a narcotic effect. Consequently, I and my men were having an easy time subduing Stosh's men in their sleep and freeing the Princess. In fact, this was a rather educational example of Sun Tzu's 18. paragraph in chapter 1: All warfare is based on deception. I promised Marblehead long ago that we would treat all the chapters of the Art of War in that thread, and *as it so happens* (), just now, I reopened it and posted the book's second last chapter. Ilumairen and Stosh, wouldn't you agree that a conflict that started on a virtual battlefield should be allowed to end there as well? In other words, instead of continuing your back and forth in this thread until the mods might feel they need to chime in: Are you ready for a rematch? And FYI: This time it's going to be Stosh versus Ilumairen. As for myself, I will be watching you guys from a safe distance, enjoying my hot popcorn!

Lo and behold, brave soldiers of the Dao, here you have another chapter of Sun Tzu's timeless treatise, offered to you for your deep going consideration! (Disclaimer: Kids, don't try any of this at home!) XII. The Attack by Fire 1. Sun Tzu said: There are five ways of attacking with fire. The first is to burn soldiers in their camp; the second is to burn stores; the third is to burn baggage trains; the fourth is to burn arsenals and magazines; the fifth is to hurl dropping fire amongst the enemy. 2. In order to carry out an attack, we must have means available. The material for raising fire should always be kept in readiness. 3. There is a proper season for making attacks with fire, and special days for starting a conflagration. 4. The proper season is when the weather is very dry; the special days are those when the moon is in the constellations of the Sieve, the Wall, the Wing or the Cross-bar; for these four are all days of rising wind. 5. In attacking with fire, one should be prepared to meet five possible developments: 6. (1) When fire breaks out inside to enemy's camp, respond at once with an attack from without. 7. (2) If there is an outbreak of fire, but the enemy's soldiers remain quiet, bide your time and do not attack. 8. (3) When the force of the flames has reached its height, follow it up with an attack, if that is practicable; if not, stay where you are. 9. (4) If it is possible to make an assault with fire from without, do not wait for it to break out within, but deliver your attack at a favorable moment. 10. (5) When you start a fire, be to windward of it. Do not attack from the leeward. 11. A wind that rises in the daytime lasts long, but a night breeze soon falls. 12. In every army, the five developments connected with fire must be known, the movements of the stars calculated, and a watch kept for the proper days. 13. Hence those who use fire as an aid to the attack show intelligence; those who use water as an aid to the attack gain an accession of strength. 14. By means of water, an enemy may be intercepted, but not robbed of all his belongings. 15. Unhappy is the fate of one who tries to win his battles and succeed in his attacks without cultivating the spirit of enterprise; for the result is waste of time and general stagnation. 16. Hence the saying: The enlightened ruler lays his plans well ahead; the good general cultivates his resources. 17. Move not unless you see an advantage; use not your troops unless there is something to be gained; fight not unless the position is critical. 18. No ruler should put troops into the field merely to gratify his own spleen; no general should fight a battle simply out of pique. 19. If it is to your advantage, make a forward move; if not, stay where you are. 20. Anger may in time change to gladness; vexation may be succeeded by content. 21. But a kingdom that has once been destroyed can never come again into being; nor can the dead ever be brought back to life. 22. Hence the enlightened ruler is heedful, and the good general full of caution. This is the way to keep a country at peace and an army intact.

I don't think so. 'Daoist' isn't some kind of honorary title; it simply expresses that you resonate with Daoist lore. And who else could tell that but yourself?

When I call myself a Daoist, sometimes people are surprised and say they thought of me as a Hermeticist. I tell them that I see no contradiction between the two. In fact, I started studying the Yijing and the DDJ (not to mention Eastern martial arts) earlier than the Hermetic philosophy and arts. In many ways, I think of them as equivalents. They also complement each other in a fashion. To me, calling myself a Daoist simply means that I find much of value in the ancient Daoist teachings. I do read them a certain way (which everybody does) and try to apply them as I see fit. Marblehead did call me a Daoist on some occasions, and he must know.

It is true that humans usually behave according to preset patterns, not unlike a computer's actions are determined by its program. One thing that distinguishes us from the latter, though, is that we can alter our patterns and reprogram ourselves if we choose to do so.

It is a little hard to set a standard for what Western Alchemy teaches in this regard. It does not typically employ the kind of physio-spiritual characteristic of Neidan, although parallels can be found in the works of people who can be said to be spiritual Alchemists, such as Jakob Boehme, Johann Georg Gichtel and, more recently, Julius Evola. And here it seems fair to say that, overall, Western Alchemy takes more of a circular approach, in accordance with its most foundational text, the Emerald Tablet: An example of this can be found in the work of aforementioned Gichtel, as illustrated here: According to Gichtel's scheme, the work of transformation starts from and revolves around the heart centre, the great unifier of what is above and what is below. And as Western Alchemy emphasizes cyclic opening and closing, it seems appropriate to say that this process ends where it began.

I am not sure if ultraviolet vision has anything to do with it, but back in the 90's, after many hours of counselling sessions, I would often spontaneously start seeing an emanation from my clients, blurring what was behind them. On other occasions, I saw what I would describe as an etheric flow pouring down on earth from all the stars. That was pretty cool. Generally, I 'see' more with my eyes closed.

The fight-or-flight response activates the sympathetic nervous system and suppresses the parasympathetic nervous system, including the vagus nerve. Via the former, the adrenal glands are activated. Now if an individual is in constant 'survival mode' (which isn't uncommon nowadays), the permanent stress depletes the kidney qi. The kidneys (in the understanding of TCM) are connected to both the adrenal glands and the sexual organs. Hope this helps.

It's all in the game.

As for myself, I would never do that. I would just...

It was meant as a general "you", not a personal one. You seemed to be able to offer some further insight, though. They justified their aggression HOW? (Trying to get you right without risking to answer my own question. )

I do that sometimes. But what kind of satisfaction could you get exactly from playing a floor-mat? Say more about this please.

Would you please elaborate on this? The state as such seems real enough, and there is a Bach Flower remedy for it, BTW. Did you mean that there is a misconception about yourself behind it, though? A game played by the ego? Some kind of "poor me" attitude perhaps? That's a good question... In some cases, yes. Some people take a verbally aggressive way of communication for granted and even enjoy this kind of exchange.

This is essentially what is taught also in Taiji: Chi enters through the feet, moves up through the body and is finally manifested as power in a martial technique. And the same applies to Taiji as a healing art as well. This is not to say that 'Earth chi' is the only kind there is, but it is, well, a fundamental one.

What I came up with so far as the result of my meditation: I think the dude is trying to blackmail you. Which doesn't mean he might not actually mean what he says. Anyways, I understand you don't want to play that game. So the issue seems to be to kind of put the responsibility for his life back on him - while still offering your compassion. And I think that's what LL's post boils down to as well.

Only the speed of light comes to mind. Or are you talking about the Lorentzian interpretation of SRT?! Then that's a whole different game. Anyhow, I think it's fair to ask about the philosophical implications of Einstein's theories.

Not at all. So you feel yourself to be part of a process... Okay, so be it. Why bother? And if you want to break free and break the rules... Have it your way... Well, as long you don't do too much damage to yourself and others, that's cool! Just go ahead! Give it your best effort - nothing can stop you! And if that's part of a process too, well, so be it! There's no need for confusion, really, though it's understandable. We can talk more if you wish...

Yeah, Rara, that's always a tough one, gay or not. Saving the galaxy is so much easier... But:

Agreed on Alan Watts having had a good deal of wisdom to share. Talking about your topic: Yes, in retrospect, it may easily seem like any decision you made was the only one you could have made. But how can you really know that? It surely didn't look like that at the time you needed to make that decision, before the wave function collapsed? At least not every single time - unless you are an individual that never suffers from indecisiveness (in which case I envy you). Not even the movement of a quantum is fully predictable, as we know today. Essentially, your assumption is taking things back to a mechanical Newtonian universe. Hence the video I posted above.

It may be of interest to take a brief look at the collection of proto-Daoist texts that has come to be known as Guan Zi, published recently by Dan G. Reid as The Thread of the Dao. The following excerpt sounds a lot like a description of what has been a fundamental concept in the Western world for millenias, from ancient Greece to the dawn of modern physics, namely the so-called ether (aether): 107 夫或者何? 若然者也。 What is this constant thing? It is present at all times. 108 視則不見, Looking for it with the eyes, it will not be seen; 109 聽則不聞。 Listening for it with the ears, it will not be heard. 110 灑乎天下滿, Scattered throughout, it fills all under Heaven. 111 不見其塞。 Though not seen on the surface, 112 集於顏色, It is collected in the harmonious shape of the face; 113 知於肌膚。 It is known in the muscles and the skin. 114 責其往來, Dutifully, it comes and goes, 115 莫知其時。 Yet no one knows its timing. 116 薄乎其方也, So small, it is (within) the square (of Earth); 117 駼乎其圜 也, So expansive, it (exceeds) the circle (of Heaven). 118 駼駼乎莫得其門。 Expanding and expanding, no one can reach its gate. Similarly, we read in DDJ, chapter 14: By looking, it is not seen. It is known as Clear By listening, it is not heard. It is known as Inaudible What cannot be obtained when seized is known as Infinitesimal These three things cannot be inspected And are merged into one Above, it is not bright Below, it is not dark Immeasurable and unnameable It is again nothing This is called “having no form or appearance” Without a materialized image This is called “absent-minded” Greet it and you do not see its front Follow it and you do not see its rear Hold to the ancient Dao and ride it until you possess the present Then you will have the power to know the ancient beginning This is called “the thread of Dao” Now what has this got to do with Einstein? Didn't the Theory of Special Relativity discard the necessity of the ether concept? Not really. Einstein indeed at first denied the existence of this ether, but later changed his position. In “Ether and the Theory of Relativity” (1922), he wrote: "Recapitulating, we may say that according to the general theory of relativity, space is endowed with physical qualities; in this sense, therefore, there exists an ether. According to the general theory of relativity, space without ether is unthinkable; for in such space there not only would be no propagation of light, but also no possibility of existence for standards of space and time (measuring-rods and clocks), nor therefore any space-time intervals in the physical sense. But this ether may not be thought of as endowed with the quality characteristic of ponderable media, as consisting of parts which may be tracked through time. The idea of motion may not be applied to it."

Whether you think you can, or you think you can't, you're right. Henry Ford