Michael Sternbach

Well, as you said yourself, often the similarities are remarkable, even where twins grow up on their own. But granted, not always. For those cases, there are a couple of possibilities: They are each expressing a certain part of the chart in a more emphasized manner. They are expressing the chart in different ways (i.e. Taurus could manifest itself in the native's professional life as a banker or a baker). The Ascendent (or the Moon, or some other factor) has changed the sign between the two births. The placement of some factor1(s) in the houses has changed. The Ascendent (and possibly other factors) has changed the degree. That is actually quite certain, and every degree of a sign has a specific meaning. Minute as this may seem, it could make quite a difference. These things are difficult to research, due to a lack of really exact birth data. Mind you, minor shifts in the Ascendant will also influence where the Part of Fortune falls exactly, along with a few dozen other parts... Those are given great significance in traditional astrology. Last but not least, astrology (at least the way I am practicing it) does not deny that individuals basically have free will - with the decision that they are making influencing their further life and development, of course. Ponder on this.

Well, we don't want to overkill. We just want to be overskilled!

That would be a bummer.

Kenpo Karate is a really spiritual martial art. The following technique is called "Heavenly Ascent":

I still don't quite follow you, even though you yourself seem to be perfectly clear about what you mean. I guess, that must be due to

The idea is nothing new. There are "religious" techniques in the established martial arts as well. Here is an example from Kenpo Karate. It's called "Bowing to Buddha"...

"Dao" can be translated simply as "way", but it also means the transcendent principle in the ancient Chinese philosophy represented by Lao Tzu and Chuang Tzu. Various translations have been suggested over time, and some translators of Daoist texts even preferred not to translate it at all. Keeping in mind that, as the Daodejing says, the Dao that can be named is not the real Dao... "Bum" is an English word. English is not my first language, but I think a "wanderer" would be synonymous, especially one who is not in an awful hurry to arrive at a particular destination. So we like to spend some time for "discussions on the way" here.

Karl's comment is interesting (hey, I happen to approve of a post of his for the second time today - what's going on here?!) I will supplement this with a metaphysical perspective, as would be expected from me. Earth is a place where all kinds of concepts can be tested and manifested, for the improvement of the individual and the whole. Wealth is one of them. In my view, if mankind develops the way it should, there will one day be wealth available to everybody, with little effort. Leaving time for people to unfold their creative urges without financial pressures. Yes, it sounds like Utopia. However, in my country there is some serious discussion about giving every citizen a couple of thousand francs monthly, besides whatever income they may or may not have. I think that's a wonderful idea. But I'm afraid that it may not happen any time soon because of objections by people who are thinking just like Roger. Such as: Wouldn't that be an injustice toward non-Swiss? I, for one, have no problem with people getting money by investing in stocks, winning the lottery, or inheriting it. Some people are luckier than others, this is not going to change any time soon. And mind you, there are many ways in which one may or may not be priviledged; having money is no guarantee for happiness. But it allows you to do good for yourself and others. Nothing wrong with that. Oftentimes, people who are talking like Roger are envious of those more priviledged. They would seize the opportunity for effortless financial gain themselves, were they offered the chance. My advice: Don't try to restrict the possibilities that others may have. Expand your own - and those of the people that you can help.

In keeping wit this, in all traditional cultures, the leader of a state (pharaoh, emperor etc) is seen as a representative of a Deity. By the same token, the pope once used to have considerable political power.

Usenet and Donuts

Hmm... Before, you gave several examples of separated twins developing in very similar ways. I'm not sure what you are trying to get at... (Not for the first time, I might add.) And no, a couple of minutes usually won't make a big difference regarding the natal chart. Even though they might, in cases where the ascendent is about to change etc.

The Onion Router (TOR)

Onion

Very nice. Paracelsus mentions the Ens Astrale as the influence of the celestial bodies on illness and health. My own experience as a medical astrologer showed me that we should not think of the astrological influences as separate from other influences that are genetical, environmental, biographic etc. Direct cosmic influences may exist, but most of all, the chart is a symbolic summary of everything that is in the make up and life experience of an individual. In the Paragranum, Paracelsus says: "Within man are the sun and moon, the planets and all the rest of the stars, and also the chaos." In other words, Man is a microcosm.

That's a no-brainer!

In my view, the tree in this story is the World Tree which holds the three levels of the Universe together, i.e. in Celtic mythology. Virtually every spiritual tradition has an equivalent of this. Human beings reflect this tree in the system of their chakras - from "root" to "crown." On the physical level, human anatomy reflects the tree in the spine and the branch-like nervous system associated with it. Of course, we see this in animals too - most significantly, the snake's skeleton is little more than a spine. No animal (except the human one) is erect, their spine being more or less parallel to the ground. Again, the crawling snake serves as the classic example. While plants are in full harmony with the macrocosm that surrounds them, there is little they can do to alter the conditions of their existence. The ability of applying survival skills sets in with the mobility of the animal - in particular with the "fight or flight" response. This is the domain of the root chakra which connects to the adrenal glands on top of the kidneys. (In the development of the fetus, the kidneys are further down, first.) The flooding of the body with adrenal hormones in case of an emergency is triggered by that most ancient part of the brain which sits at the upper end of the spine and which we have in common with the reptiles! Gnostic philosophy insists that the soul originated in the angelic realms and descended into an animalic body. This was a regrettable Fall from Grace according to some, a worthwhile enterprise according to others. Optimistic Gnosis actually sees it as a progression from a state of sublime but eventually sterile bliss to a recognition and eventual mastery (or so it is hoped) of the world of opposing forces. In this view, the eating of the Apple of Knowledge was actually what was meant to happen! Hoping that this would add another perspective on this very interesting myth. BTW, it would seem that there was an earlier Babylonian version of it. As it happens (), I just talked about some of the topics touched here also on Junko's Origin of Mankind thread, from a somewhat different angle. http://www.thedaobums.com/topic/40620-the-origin-of-mankind/page-81#entry687550 Hoping that this thread will continue.

So, we are trying to make sense of the world using both our intellectual/scientific and intuitive/spiritual capacities. But there is just a single reality out there. Our mind will remain split as long as we can't unite the vistas we are presented with.

Interesting. As it happens, I'm touching on some of these themes in my latest post here: http://www.thedaobums.com/topic/40620-the-origin-of-mankind/page-81#entry687550

Back to the question of humans being animals. Well, part of us is. My view of this is based on the "doctrine of signatures", and on an essentially neo-Platonic/Hermetic model of the Cosmos. According to this view, existence evolves through a number of levels. "Below" the human being (and there is no evaluation connected to this), there is inorganic matter, plant life, and animal life. Those forms if existence are more closely connected to the Earth. "Above" the human being, there are levels of non-material existence. In the Abrahamic traditions, these belong to angels, archangels etc, all the way up to the nous. Other traditions speak of various Deities, Bodhisattvas etc. It really makes no difference. Those are the levels that we associate with the the heavens, or various spiritual realms. Human beings are right in the middle zone between the realms "below" and "above." It's as though angelic beings have taken hold of animal bodies, (quite literally) uplifting them, while severly limiting their own original cosmic awareness at the same time. The reasons for this go beyond the scope of this post, but I might talk about them somewhere else soon. Certain Asian traditions are particularly explicit about Man being the link between Heaven and Earth. Thus, the two middle lines of an Yijing hexagram belong to Man, with Earth below and Heaven above. In Zen meditation, we are instructed to simultaneously sink into the ground and stretch our spine as if our head were suspended from above. The middle part of a plant represents Man in Japanese flower arrangement, etc. Plants are mediators between above and below in their own right. But as living beings, they are pre-conscious. Which is to say that their consciousness hasn't really woken up yet. They exist in a dream state as it were. They drive their roots down into the chthonic realms and open their blossoms or crowns to the sky. They spend their existence in perfect harmony with the Cosmos that surrounds them. At the same time, they have little choice but to thrive and wither with the conditions that are surrounding them. They can't move places in order to accomodate to changing circumstances the way animals can. With the animal, separateness and individual existence begins. With this comes the "fight or flight" response - the foundation for survival skills on an individual level. The human being is the only animal that has an upright spine. With numerous nerves protruding from it, it reflects the roots, stem, branches of a tree. This may not be immediately obvious, because on the physical level, our lower end doesn't reach down into the ground, nor does our upper end resemble a plane that opens up to cosmic influences like a radio telescope; instead, we have heads which are closed spheres, essentially. But the morphology of the plant is present in the system of our chakras, ranging from "root" to "crown." The crown chakra is actually seen as connected to the pineal gland which we now know to be sensitive to sun light, much like the leaves or petals of a plant. The human being is the completion of the macrocosm turning into a microcosm. This is understood both in Daoism and in the Hermetic tradition (among others, Paracelsus wrote about this). Thus, the origin of Mankind is the blending of animalic and angelic existence. Still bound by physical conditions, to be sure, the human being is able to master and transcend those conditions by the application of free will, imagination, higher intelligence. Those are reflecting the angel within us.

Hello MistarRed, Great that you decided to turn from a lurker into a contributor or at least a questioner. Welcome to the forum. Michael

Start where you are and work from there.

And this happened in modern times?! I'm truly shocked! What, even people allegedly of Christian faith got involved in this kind of man trade? Such hypocrisy is beyond belief! I can indeed think of something else (even though it may be complementary to or pertain to another - but "parallel" - level than your theory, rather than contradict it). Namely astrology. Bear in mind that twins have a rather similar natal chart, in most cases.

I think it hinges on what you mean by science. For this ancient term has been gradually redefined some 300 years ago. I said it before, but it's worth repeating once in awhile: As mysticism becomes more scientific, science will become more mystical. I too think that the so-called "scientific method" is limited. There are things that hold true - empirically or intuitively - which nevertheless can not be proved by application of the scientific method. Nevertheless, many people accept them as truth. All of them would be wrong according to the modern scientific mind set. Funnily enough, not even all the scientists accept this in a rigorously. Even though I'm sure there are some. They are the devout beliefers in the scientific method, which they set as absolute. What if, metaphorically speaking, the Creator is as much an artist as a scientist? Then science itself is biased in setting its method as absolute. Of course, some will say that there is no Creator in the first place. Others won't agree, and that includes geniuses like Newton and Einstein. While there may never be a complete congruence, I think that in the long run, the development will lead to a mutual approximation of science and mysticism. And so it should be. Many problems will be solved, many higher possibilities become accessible then. The work of people like Walter Russel speaks to this.

Not more than necessary!