alchemist

Hi all, I am a disciple of a Daoist school Wuliupai, and I would like to introduce the TTB members to the main principles of the School. Here is a short quote from a Wikipedia article: > The school's doctrine is related in the works of the school's founders: "Common Teachings of Immortals and Buddhas" and "True Principles of Heavenly Immortality" by Wu Chongxu; and also in "Book of Understanding Life" and "Confirmatory Teachings of Golden Immortals" by Liu Huayang. The school puts its main emphasis on the practice of internal alchemy, in order to realise Tao, thus achieving a status of "an immortal and a buddha". A distinctive trait of the school is its postulated identity of Taoist principles with those of early Chan Buddhism. As E. A. Torchinov noted in the foreword to his translation of Zhang Bo-duan's "Chapters of Understanding Life", "With time the immortals came to be regarded as taoist counterparts of Buddhas, which have led to creation of syncretical schools (albeit dominated by Taoism) of Immortals and Buddhas (xianfo) in 16th-17th centuries; in these schools tenets of Buddhist doctrine were only perceived through the lens of taoist tradition." The whole article can be found here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wuliupai In this topic, I will be glad to answer any questions about the School you may have. Later I am planning to give some translations of the classics of the School and some notable Daoist texts. BR

(Translated from Russian, original Chinese-to-Russian translation by D.A. Artemiev.) Lü Dongbin asked his teacher Zhongli Quan: "Why is Great Dao difficult to understand and realize?" Zhongli Quan answered: "Because false methods of minor schools are considered efficient and widely spread among the laity; they are passed from one to another and until death the true awareness does not come; they subsequently become customary and discredit the Great Dao. These are such methods as: 1. Fasting. 2. Starvation. 3. Gathering of qi. 4. Saliva swallowing. 5. Sexual abstinence. 6. Forgoing tastes. 7. Chan meditation. 8. Silence. 9. Awareness. 10. The Art of the inner chambers. 11. Inhaling much, exhaling little. 12. Maintaining purity. 13. Quieting (thoughts stopping). 14. Avoiding fatigue. 15. Opening of the heads crown. 16. Puckering genitals into ones body. 17. Symptoms disappearance. 18. Canons reading and recitation. 19. Outer alchemy. 20. Breathe restraining. 21. Dao Yin practices. 22. Tu Na gymnastics. 23. Gathering and replenishing. 24. Charity and donations. 25. Sacrifices. 26. Giving help. 27. Retreating into mountains. 28. Innate wisdom (analytical mind). 29. Immobility. 30. Formal maintaining of the teaching lineage. Its not possible to fully recite all the minor schools and inconsistent methods. To the extent that (they): Gather essence of sun and moon and accumulate Qi of Heaven and Earth. Think endlessly, hoping to produce cinnabar. Bend the body, exhausting it, trying to break free. Inhale a lot, but exhale a little, in attempt to cure diseases, considering it a true embryonic breathing. Halt thinking and forget the words, that correspond to nurturing the nature of xing, but this just points to cultivation of the true of qi contained in the Great Fundamental. Practice the art of inner chambers, but this is just a lower cultivation method of the fate - ming. Immobilize the body like a withered tree, and make the mind calm like cold ash - and this is a small art of spirit concentration. What to do if in antiquity and today the men cultivating the Dao were trying hard and constantly care (only about it), but since the saliva was believed to be the cure, how was it possible to carry out the creation? Thickening qi as the elixir is it possible to achieve its conservation? Considering liver to be a dragon, lungs to be a tiger how is it possible to unite them? Assuming Kan to be lead, and Li to be mercury is it possible to prolong the life? Based on the year seasons sought to cultivate yellow sprout. Not letting intention to dissipate, coveted to find a Great cure. Comparing years and matching months wasted days and got confused over time. Without understanding Wu Xing basics how could they perceive the creation of three principles? Acquired only a superficial and fooled the descendants. This led for the Great Dao to become disregarded over the time; (they) rose and become a custom of heresy and false teaching. In this way the original meaning of the ancient Masters was lost. Exactly because of Dao were listening empty jabber and superficial teachings; pointed followers, who understood nothing, to them as secret methods of practice; passed each other forms of instruction and interpretations, but in due time decent into the netherworld, causing the hearts of men to numb with fear! Under no circumstances wanted to cultivate and fulfill the Great Dao, outshone their contemporaries, only cared about the happiness and avoidance of failures, did not believe in innermost secrets and only multiplied the wealth and neglected their fate, thus heading to turn into devils (ghost)!

Yes, he made lot of faults: http://www.thedaobums.com/topic/42734-checking-the-checkers Again a funny attempt to hide from answering..

Why it is so difficult to answer "an easy question" and "give up the feeling of hostility" first? In another topic my message was deleted by "Taoist Texts", so any "communitarian" cannot be possible... You're speaking about manners, however Astral Monk was obviously honest and open. All these just looks rude and like the only goal is to escape answering easy questions. Do you teach your students the same way? Instead of telling them what is houtian bagua, you lecture them on manners? This way it's hard to keep any students.

That's completely irrelevant to the current discussion. Have you even read it?

Too many claims and no single answer. If you are a teacher, could you please answer a question about houtian bagua?

So if you opened it, could you please tell us where is it located?

So you are speaking for the whole forum having written 49 posts here? And you tell us that we have a superiority complex

Should be quite obvious for anyone interested in neidan. All Patriarchs state that one needs a Teacher.

really weird to see such posts on a Daoist forum. It shows very clear who is behind them.

Okay. I've carefully read the moderators log about what is treated as insults for opendao case, so let's keep the same rules anywhere and for anyone.

I reported about your insults here. OpenDao will reply, if he finds it necessary, when he will be able to do it. So far you can think who his words were addressed to. But they understood him already, so I see no point to continue. What you wrote about Wu-Liu Pai we are going to comment later as well. And your attitude really contrasts with the attitude of Effilang, I hope he doesn't like such bold advertising too.

Does "Taoist Texts" also consider all Daoist Patriarchs, who wrote in Daozang about the necessity of a Teacher, to be liars?

Ah, I wonder how can anyone take seriously someone who mumbles this kind of delirious mumbo jumbo.

The truth is, you know nothing about neidan and Wuliupai methods in particular, and even can't understand what's actually written in Wuliupai texts. How do you think what is written here about 意? 1) 答曰：武火摄归者，乃呼吸之气，摄真炁归源，而又离不得真意之为主宰矣。 2) 既照则忘形忘意，但用意即是不忘，但忘即不能以意照之，心无不存之谓照，欲无不泯之谓志，忘与照，一而二，二而一，当忘之时，其心湛然，未常不照，当照之时，丝毫不立。 3) 即我之真意，使二炁转运机耳。

(The original article by Dmitry Artemiev, translated from Russian.) First of all, we need to understand that Chinese culture has its own ideas, sometimes fundamentally different from the concepts of the other cultures. Daoism, and especially alchemy of immortality in Chinese tradition, although is well-known nowadays, I dare say have not been studied at all. It is especially true for the most ancient period of Daoism and the so-called Shenxian teaching. This is not surprising, the same is almost universally true for China. In fact, immortality is not really the desire to leave memory for the descendants, and not the desire to live forever on earth (a physical immortality and longevity although considered possible, never were the supreme goal of Daoism), but it is a realization of the supreme freedom that exists in every human being, although men usually do not know about it. This is well described in Wuzhenpian. Thus, Daoism is not a philosophy, not a religion, but the way of freedom. Of course finding the true essence of Daoism is extremely difficult because of all the later developments and distortions, but even today there are people in China who preserve the tradition of Daoism in its most ancient form. Daoist alchemy is the TEACHING of attaining UNITY. And not the physical one or the one of the mind (as nowadays the spirit is labeled), but attaining a particular state, THE HIGHEST POSSIBLE ACHIEVEMENT OF A HUMAN IN THE REALM OF THE SPIRIT. Immortality in Daoist alchemy is rather aimed at immortality of the spirit than physical immortality. In Daoist practice, there are certain stages that are characterized not by qigong phenomena, but rather by physiological changes and transformations (e.g. 人仙, 地仙, 神仙, 天仙, 金仙 and some others). Not all schools of Daoism called the same levels by the same names. We especially need to emphasize that the Chinese spirit has nothing to do with the concept of the consciousness, and that is what the character 神 tells us about. Daoist alchemy, as we know, was formerly referred to as Neidan and Waidan (usually translated as inner and outer alchemy). The very character DAN represents a pot in which melting occurs. However, few people know (and the Daoists insist on that), that this teaching existed since the most ancient times, and it is known in China at least since Huangdi. This teaching is called HuangLaoXue i.e. the teaching Huangdi and Laozi. It also has other names. The precise terms Neidan and Waidan appeared much later, in the beginning of Current Era. In fact, only Waidan could be called alchemy as the methods of the external elixir melting. Inner alchemy (which in scientific circles is considered derived from the outer one), held in the tradition a much higher and ancient status. It is called alchemy more because of the custom than meaning. Let's examine the classification in more details: 1. Ghostly immortal or ghost immortal - Guǐxiān (鬼仙). Gui Xian. Literally - the immortal of devils, devil immortal. This achievement was considered to be typical for the shamanic practices, the late Chan Buddhism, pseudo-Daoism, various meditative practices. Yin spirit leaves the body while its non-breathing and without heartbeat. Practitioner remains an ordinary mortal, despite the practice of soul leaving and possible acquiring of some abilities. Moreover, it is possible that after the death the practitioner would never be reborn, remaining a ghost forever. This practice is not a Daoist one and it was forbidden (serious practicing, not just jingzuo). 2. Human immortal or immortal among people Rénxiān (人仙) Actually not really an immortal. Moreover, each person passes this period in his or her life. It is an age of majority, peak of physiological prosperity. This is the very period when people are in their most exalted state (full and active). If one starts to practice alchemy in this period, it is possible to complete the second stage of Earth immortal very quickly. If time has passed and the energy is wasted, old age and infirmity came, then it would be necessary to bring the body back to this physiological level. Otherwise, it is impossible to proceed. Thus we can see that it is still not true immortality, but only attaining of the state of the highest primordial energy, i.e. Ming. 3. Earth Immortal - Dìxiān (地仙): This is what is commonly called immortality: immortality of the physical body on the Earth. But such a body, although may dwell forever on the Earth, can be destroyed by external damage. Therefore, such an achievement is not considered as a high one, and all practitioners sought to advance further, consider it as only an intermediate step. It should be noted that this achievement is the goal and the ultimate attainment of outer alchemy. Both at the previous and at this stage it is possible to develop various abilities of the level, but it is not the main path, but rather a side road. At this stage, Ming unites with Xing, and thus immortality becomes possible. Thats like a perpetual thermonuclear engine in ones own body on the Earth emerges. Thats where the abilities come from. Starting from this stage, the achievements are irreversible in terms of the inverse transformation (with the exception of Rénxiān who could easily become an ordinary person again, having spent Ming). But if, because of external conditions the practice is not completed or if the body is destroyed, one may have to go back to the previous level. 4. Spirit Immortal - Shénxiān (神仙) Spiritual embryo or Yangshen goes out of the head (born in the spiritual world), and it still needs to be nurtured and developed. This is similar to a mother (body) taking care of a child (spirit). When it becomes strong and this stage is completed the spirit can move anywhere in the Universe first to learn its structure and subsequently to perform spiritual work. It is no longer possible to kill him, he is immortal. But there is still body that requires attention. At a certain stage of development yang spirit Yangshen acquires the ability to multiply, reproducing itself. It can gradually grow to a huge number. They can perform a variety of spiritual work in different worlds. This is the very moment when complete understanding of the Universe and its laws comes as well as the meaning of further development. If the practitioner wishes, this phase can be prolonged for a very long time. For example, one can dwell in a cave for thousands of years and practice in spiritual bodies. 5. Celestial Immortal - Tiānxiān (天仙) The previous stage can already be prolonged to last forever. But the immortal spirit has still non-transformed body. Therefore, there is still an opportunity to continue to the highest stage, which, according to alchemy is possible on Earth - the transformation of the body into the body of light. This is the most difficult task, as it requires 9 to 10 years of immobility. It should be safeguarded by faithful disciples and followers, the Teacher, or by concealment, immured in a cave in accordance with certain rules. After its completion the body and the spirit merge together in the "body" of light and when the person who attained this level leaves the world nothing is left (except for remaining possessions as with Boddhidharmas shoe). If for some reason, the practitioner does not reach the highest stage, it may either willingly or been forced by circumstances "get rid of the corpse." Depending on the level attained, his remained body may not be susceptible to decay but self-mummify or even burn because of the inner fire. This scheme is based on the studies of the classics on the one hand and the Teachers guidance on the other. However, we must remember that the purpose of such conciseness is to provide a general understanding of the process, while in practical terms, each stage has its own pitfalls, secrets and downfalls.

I understand that this question is important for you (and everyone else), but as I said, neidan systems don't give a clear answer. In theory, yes, you can improve your fate from one incarnation to another. But neidan systems don't give any recommendations on how to achieve this. You probably can try following Buddhist recommendations, since Buddhism has much better developed system of improving your incarnation conditions. BR

Hi Bluemind, Basically, neidan systems only say that an ordinary man becomes a ‘gui’ (ghost). Everything else (i.e. what happens with guis, etc) is beyond the sphere of interest of neidan, since its ultimate goal is to prevent this scenario. But Daoism in the wide sense shares more or less the same views as Buddhism on this question. I.e. the soul is caught into the death/rebirth cycle, having in mind that chances to reborn in the lower spheres are much higher than to become a human again. BR

Hi Bluemind, I wouldn't like to discuss the opinion that was not originally posted in this topic. So I can only say that in the quote above, there are things that correspond to WLP theory, and things that do not. BR

You can read the text here: http://ctext.org/wiki.pl?if=en&chapter=60761 BR, alchemist

For example, it is used in Huimingjing. BR, alchemist

This term does exist in Daoism: http://baike.baidu.com/subview/643591/15406166.htm It is not as widespread as guixian, renxian, etc, and Its meaning may be ambigous, but still it exists. BR, alchemist

That may differ depending on the context. That's why I don't recommend to use this term. BR

This is a Buddhist term, so I do not recommend to use it when describing the stages of immortality in neidan. I know it is used sometimes, but still it is better to use well-known Daoist stages. BR

Generally, yangshen travels across the universe on this stage. BR