dust

Indeed, it's a proposed bill. And all it would do, as I've read on a couple of news sites, is enable certain agencies to check records of websites visited up to 12 months prior. There's no reason most of us would need to worry about that. Privacy-wise, it's no different to a couple of things that already happen: they can check phone logs, get information about bank accounts, etc. On the other hand... do I believe that the agencies to whom this legislation might be of use in countering terrorism don't already have access to pretty much all the information they want? And do we believe that the actually dangerous people aren't already making use of Tor etc to avoid being found?

Question is: what's an easy way around it?

Well, either way, the idea here is not to debate etymologies.... We can use etymology for assistance in discussion, but the focus is ideally to be on defining we mean by 'human', not explaining where the word 'human' came from. For example, to define 'sock': A garment for the foot and lower part of the leg, usually worn between foot and shoe, useful in regulating temperature and increasing shoe comfort. Typically knitted from wool, cotton, or nylon, and usually worn in pairs. If we went into etymology of the word 'sock', we'd find a bunch of interesting historical stuff, e.g. "a lightweight shoe worn by ancient Greek and Roman comic actors". But we don't need to go there to define what we today mean by 'sock'. So far, my presumption is being confirmed: there is no way to satisfactorily define any of the 3 main subjects of the thread...

Yes. I made friends with a few Kazakhs my first year in Beijing (we used to get high together, drink tequila, eat Xinjiang food.. I miss them). At that time, when I looked for Kazakhstan on the map, I was astonished at how big it was -- and how little I'd ever heard about it. Even now, years later, when I look at a map of the world I'm still surprised to note how big it is. In addition to the awesome history you mention, I'd think modern Kazakhstan would be in the public eye a little more, considering its authoritarian regime, majority Muslim population, and massive oil reserves... isn't that a media trifecta?

I used to live in Beijing, but no longer. Both sister and I are in UK. I never found a really great massage there, in all honesty. Perhaps when I return on a visit I'll remember to try and find him. Thanks for all the advice.

I do believe it Interesting. There was an issue with the umbilical cord being wrapped around her neck. Something to think about. So far, I don't think acupuncture has had any long-term effect in that area. Though I believe it could help if the right treatment were discovered.

“The idea that foragers could amass the numbers of people necessary to undertake large-scale projects ... has caused archaeologists to deeply rethink the nature and timing of sophisticated large-scale human organization as one that predates settled and civilized societies.” No shit. I'm starting to get really sick of the common idea that, before agriculture and cities, everyone ran around half-starved and disease-ridden, killing and raping each other.

This is in fact something I've already suggested to her. I think she, as many, gets caught in the idea that diet and medicines are the only thing that affect one's body, and that exercise is a chore; forgetting the fact that man is an animal, we're supposed to move. So yeah, thanks, I will suggest again.. Interestingly, she was vegetarian for nearly a decade, and as far as I'm aware the problem began during this time. She is sure that starting to eat meat again solved some other problems, and I don't think it made the monthly problem worse. Her diet has always contained eggs and cheeses etc. I will suggest she look into eggs and their affects. I will suggest, though cannot assure that she will be very open to the idea of fasting. Thanks. Thanks. I'm sure she does her best at this already. I'm also pretty sure that me suggesting anything along these lines will result in severe pain in my abdominal region... (from a swift punch to the gut, if that wasn't clear!)

Hehe. 人 The character for person is/was a pictograph of a person. http://dict.shufaji.com/word-1414.html I understand your joy at the discovery of the history/deeper meaning behind certain Chinese words. I was going to say that I don't think this one is particularly helpful. A stick-man drawing next to the definition for 'human'? But reading this part of the explanation: 躬身垂臂的劳作者，地球上唯一会创造文明符号、自觉进化的动物 my mind is changed slightly. It says, Crooked-bodied, straight-armed labourer, the only animal on the planet capable of creating civilization and symbols (writing etc), and to have evolved self-awareness. This does hit the mark for the points it makes, to an extent. It's late but I will return to this tomorrow

Thanks guys. I'm going to list the suggestions so far, for my own clarity and perhaps that of others. Tinctures/herbs: - Lady's Mantle, 3x daily, 1-2 weeks prior - Dong quai, 当归 (will ask local acupuncturist) Dietary suggestions: - No eggs - No nightshades - No caffeine - More fats Qigong/neigong: - Stillness-Movement system as taught by Ya Mu / Michael Lomax

I second peanut butter. I bought 6 x 454g jars today. They should last about 2 weeks. Eating out of one now.

It's been thick fog here, and apparently all around the UK. I really like it. Walking through the clouds!

Thanks Des. She doesn't drink coffee or black tea, but does eat chocolate fairly regularly I think. Will mention caffeine too. So many possible dietary culprits...

I cannot say I've ever thought about it until today... I'm not sure I know, of all the people I know, who eats eggs and who doesn't.. but I would guess that basically everyone I know, including a couple of vegetarians, eats eggs. Thanks again. I will discuss with her.

Right.. but not accepting them doesn't stop other people from 'expecting more' from me. And I care what they think. I'm just not willing to be, or capable of being, any different. Not today, anyway.

In this, and a bunch of similar threads, people spend much time and energy attempting to define words/concepts that they believe to be the very most important in the text, namely 'Dao' and 'De'. This is often because "Dao De Jing" is the popular 'title' of the 'book', and so of course 'Dao' and 'De' must be the thing that it's all about, right? In my opinion, thinking of "Dao De Jing" as the "the title of the book" is a mistake, and leads to placing too much emphasis on these two words alone, while many other concepts and many individual chapters are barely discussed. It's a title of the text, but it was not named "Dao De Jing" until a long time -- at least a couple of hundred years -- after it was written. It's not like the author sat back at the end of a long day's writing, stretched, said, "This is a book focused solely on discussing Dao and De, so I shall title it 'The Classic about Dao and De'", and sent it off to his publisher with strict instructions about the title. Actually, let's be clear: that did not happen! In the spirit of undermining popular discussion, I thought it might be interesting to look at how often certain words/concepts are mentioned in the text itself (rather than the 'title'), and attempt some kind of very basic analysis of the text's main focal points. I'm no analyst, and any assistance is welcome, as is any (constructive) criticism. This post is just a very simple beginning, and I hope others can offer their own analyses of central concepts. Counting characters in the received text (and removing particles, pronouns, and other 'less important' words), the most frequent are: 为 114 wei (11 times as 无为 wuwei, 2 times as 为无为 weiwuwei, 7 times as 不为, 1 time as 无不为 wubuwei) 无 102 wu 天 92 Heaven/sky (58 times as 天下, 'All under Heaven'; 9 times as 天地 'Heaven and Earth') 有 82 you/yu 道 75 Dao 知 57 know 大 57 great 善 52 good 德 43 De see full list of 21 most frequent characters at bottom * De is the 9th (21st if we include all characters) most frequent character, and is only mentioned in 15 chapters (by my quick count). Its frequency is mostly due to it being mentioned numerous times in certain chapters, such as 38, 51, 54. Dao is 5th most frequent, and mentioned in 37 chapters (again, by my quick count). If we analyze the Guodian text in the same way, we find De is used only 11 times (according to my possibly incorrect Word doc, but more or less 11). It "doesn't even break the top ten", as they say. It is mentioned in 4 of the 33 'chapters' (again, its frequency due to being mentioned numerous times in a couple of places). Dao is much more important than De in the GD compared to modern versions of the text. I'm not trying to say that the concept of De, whatever you believe that to be, is not important to the text or to any of us. I am suggesting that it's not as much of a central concept as many seem to think. The text is not a rambling essay on De and what it means; the majority of chapters make no mention of it at all. Even Dao is not the focal point of over half of the chapters. 38 chapters contain no occurrence of either Dao or De. That's nearly half the text! On the other hand: 知 zhi 'know' occurs 57 times in 31 chapters, and is clearly a very important term, but comparatively little is ever made of it; 善 shan, commonly translated as 'good', occurs 52 times in 18 chapters; it is in my opinion equally as hard to define as 'De', and like zhi and a few others, rarely gets discussed. Of course, 为 and 无, wei and wu occur the most frequently, and concepts surrounding these characters (and their combinations) are discussed regularly and with passion... though I think it's worth asking whether or not the concepts wuwei and weiwuwei, being mentioned 11 and 2 times respectively, are again as important to the text as a whole as many of us have decided. Based on both this (admittedly simple) frequency count and some degree of familiarity with the text as a whole, I think a more apt 'title' would be something like: The Classic about Dao, Rulership, Letting Go of Things, Wu, Wei, You, a little bit about De, and a Bunch of Other Cool Stuff. Not really snappy, but more accurate. * 之 248 不 238 以 164 其 140 而 117 为 114 无 102 天 92 者 91 人 85 下 82 有 82 道 75 是 69 故 62 知 57 大 57 善 52 於 49 若 45 德 43

I like the idea, but am not convinced that these titles are necessarily all fitting/suitable. For example, the character 儉 / 俭 'economical' comes up in the title of 2 chapters, 30 and 46, but is only mentioned in one chapter -- chapter 67; the character 顯 / 显 comes up in 2 titles but is not used at all in the text itself; etc..

I find myself in the unexpected position of being in almost complete agreement with you..!

I'm sure this is true for me too, yeah.. some of the time, anyway. But there's no question about the expectations of others: I'm frequently told that I'm not ambitious enough, or that my talents are being wasted, or that I'm not social enough... and this is sometimes family, sometimes friends, sometimes people I don't know very well. It's the expectation of family and good friends that eats at me. It is sometimes hard to know where the outside expectation ends and my own begins, I suppose.

Thanks SC. It's my sister, in fact. I will suggest that she looks into Lady's Mantle. Thanks VK. I will suggest this too. Is this idea covered in Chinese medicine? She believes that it has improved slightly since she stopped eating certain nightshades -- tomato, peppers, aubergine/eggplant. I'm not sure this is the case. Any thoughts on this?

I fluctuate between tranquility and anxiety. And on any given week I'll certainly feel angry a few times, and laugh a few too. The tranquility is because I'm pretty content doing very little; I have a few pastimes that I can spend hours and hours on. Peaceful, with my dog or maybe one other person. I like to spend most of my time not being busy; I do not have much of a so-called "social life". Spots of action here and there. The anxiety is because I know that everyone expects me to be doing more.

Probably. This is not my forte... Would it really be straightforward to identify a 'key word' from each chapter?

I should note that 不 is very high on the list; the top 10 characters overall are: 之 248 不 238 bu (not） 以 164 其 140 而 117 为 114 无 102 wu （without) 天 92 者 91 人 85 I won't go into the meaning of each one as many are particles, pronouns, connective words (in other words: not nouns, verbs, etc). But 不, which negates, is the second most common character in the text (& 3rd in Guodian). The use of 无 wu is generally "without". So bu will often say what something isn't, where wu will say what something hasn't.

I'm not so sure. Will try and get back to you on that (when I have the energy to check). I do tend to refer to it as the Laozi these days. Well, I think we differ over our understanding of "ethics", but: Ch.8 (I will use Legge's translation, but am also looking at Henricks and Wu): 上善若水 水善利萬物而不爭 處衆人之所惡 故幾於道 居善地，心善淵，與善仁，言善信，正善治，事善能，動善時 夫唯不爭，故無尤 The highest excellence is like (that of) water. The excellence of water appears in its benefiting all things, and in its occupying, without striving (to the contrary), the low place which all men dislike. Hence (its way) is near to (that of) the Dao. The excellence of a residence is in (the suitability of) the place; that of the mind is in abysmal stillness; that of associations is in their being with the virtuous; that of words is in their trustworthiness; that of government is in its securing good order; that of (the conduct of) affairs is in its ability; and that of (the initiation of) any movement is in its timeliness. And when (one with the highest excellence) does not wrangle (about his low position), no one finds fault with him. The first line is often translated as "The highest good is like that of water" (e.g. Henricks), but I think translators should be more careful; the part that makes repeated use of 善... 居善地，心善淵，與善仁，言善信，正善治，事善能，動善時 ... is suggesting guidelines for conduct, which might be considered 'ethics', but it is not concerned with moral conduct. It is talking not of 'goodness' but of utility. Ch.15: 古之善為士者 The skilful masters (of the Dao) in old times (Legge) The one who was skilled at practicing the Way in antiquity (Henricks) Ch.27 善行無轍迹 善言無瑕讁 善數不用籌策 善閉無關楗而不可開 善結無繩約而不可解 是以聖人 常善救人故無棄人 常善救物故無棄物 是謂襲明 故善人者不善人之師 不善人者善人之資 不貴其師不愛其資 雖智大迷是謂要妙 The skilful traveller leaves no traces of his wheels or footsteps; the skilful speaker says nothing that can be found fault with or blamed; the skilful reckoner uses no tallies; the skilful closer needs no bolts or bars, while to open what he has shut will be impossible; the skilful binder uses no strings or knots, while to unloose what he has bound will be impossible. In the same way the sage is always skilful at saving men, and so he does not cast away any man; he is always skilful at saving things, and so he does not cast away anything. This is called 'Hiding the light of his procedure.' Therefore the man of skill is a master (to be looked up to) by him who has not the skill; and he who has not the skill is the helper of (the reputation of) him who has the skill. If the one did not honour his master, and the other did not rejoice in his helper, an (observer), though intelligent, might greatly err about them. This is called 'The utmost degree of mystery.' So... I suppose it will depend on what you classify as "using ethics", but I would suggest that shan is not simply a moral or ethical concept

Thanks TM. Now.. in my opinion, each of these definitions relies on another fairly ambiguous word; what is a 'person'? If we're looking at things through an etymological lens, a 'person' originally meant a 'mask, false face', and later 'human' -- and this doesn't tell us what a 'human' or 'person' is beyond an earlier term that the Greeks or Romans or French used. I quite like your notion of 'woman'. In the OE Dict it's suggested that it comes from wife+man, but a 'womb-man' makes more logical sense (at least from a definition POV) to me. But: defining a man with a womb relies on having defined a 'man' (i.e. 'human' or 'person'); and what about someone who is not born with a womb?