dust

Thanks..I think..

"I'm just trying to be somebody I can talk to in the morning with a smile" (in my sig) Well, I've failed for today. Sorry for being so blunt before, Aetherous. I knew I'd have to defend tattooing at some point, but I posted the thread after reading about the old Chinese tradition of not cutting hair (which lead to my recalling the train conversation about tattoos), and was equally curious about what people thought about hair cuts, not just tattooing. Alas, this seems to have turned into a "dusty defends tattoos" thread. Indeed, I confess to feeling both irritated and slightly hurt at the idea that many of you would, apparently, if we met in person in another avenue, believe me to be 'trashy'.

Me too. I don't always agree with you (clearly), but that is kind of the point of a forum, isn't it? Fully realizing how childish this sounds: You started it. You were the first to judge; my judgement is based on the fact that you would judge me (or a female version of me..!) purely based on the idea that all tattooed people are trashy. In saying a woman who would judge me based on my tattoos is not worth my time, all I'm saying is that a woman who would judge so immediately, with so little other evidence, is not worth my time. No?

From this perspective, I'm glad I have visible tattoos. A person who would be so immediate and narrow in their judgement to refuse to consider a relationship with me purely because they see a tattoo is not worth my time. In fact, much better any such person not talk to me in the first place... Firstly: In China, it can be harmful to one's reputation and prospects not to go out and get recklessly drunk with your superiors when they demand it on a whim. Not everything that is culturally expected and 'respectable' is actually sensible, beneficial, 'good' behaviour. Secondly: The genuinely free thinking person is able to identify and disregard nonsensical cultural memes (such as belief in God, or belief that tattoos are necessarily trashy). Why restrict otherwise harmless (and potentially beneficial) behaviour simply because the majority of people are unable to form individual opinions, instead relying on the rest of society to tell them what to think? Thirdly: I have actually found that most Chinese are, at worst, just not particularly impressed by tattoos; in the major cities there is not the stigma that there used to be, especially among the younger generations.

If we're paying attention to trifles: the R of C was not founded in 1910... zen bear... I recall you being up in arms about this some time ago. Though I feel like a hypocrite saying this, would you not be better off forgiving and forgetting, as SA suggests?

I'm sensing some general aversion to tattoos so far... What about cutting hair? Is that not 'damage'? Isn't any hairstyle, any attempt to groom oneself, simply an attempt to make oneself look better? Cooler? What, then, about washing??

Well, now... OK... Well, I would suggest that if one feels they benefit from anything -- from getting a hair cut to having drastic cosmetic surgery -- then there has been a benefit in the greater scheme of things, too, no? If we all surrender control, whose control are we surrendering to? My body is me. Which is, yes, inseparable from all else... but not dominated by it...

Well aside from anything else, it's not possible, and even if it were, carrying big screens would hardly be practical... But attractive? Maybe. To some. If I could live in a society where others' thoughts were more obvious...I would certainly experiment with it. I'm sure some can, but...I'm not one.. Well, in modern society, this is often the case. But in the tattoo community in Beijing, for example, almost everyone is tattooed (not all Chinese tattoo artists are though, in fact), and daily life revolves around a shared appreciation for combining beautiful lines and colours with the contours and textures of the human body. Many around the world genuinely love it as a unique artform, and pay little attention to whether or not their wardrobe exposes any particular piece of ink to the general public.. An old colleague of mine got a butterfly tattoo high up on her inner thigh, placed specifically so that people wouldn't see it (I know only because it was a friend of mine who did it). Certainly.

What is a genuine self? Isn't a desire to express oneself genuine? We constantly alter our minds, our perception of all sorts of things, through education and social conditioning. Nobody is the same from one day to the next; our outward appearance changes slowly, seeing far less trauma and alteration than our mind. We tattoo our mind frequently with ideas, dogmas. Isn't it simply honest to place these ideas on the outside? Tehe... I rather ask, WWCTD? And I think he'd be cool with it. He shows no judgement here

Yes, I was wondering about this kind of thing too. Extreme sports, putting one at risk of external and internal damage. Jogging, though? What's the reasoning behind that? This is how I see it. There is no demarcation, no separation. But I have heard it said that a genuine, well-considered tattoo was already a part of a person; the act of tattooing simply brings it to the surface. Looking at certain other cultures through history, the act of tattooing has often been considered an important rite of passage, even a part of spiritual development.. Oops. A few years ago I considered a tattoo along these lines. This does go to show that, at the very least, a lot of research needs to be done...if one doesn't fully understand the meaning behind something, they may indeed one day regret getting it permanently injected... I'm not sure I understand. Should I not feel some kind of difference, then, between the arm that is tattooed and the one that isn't?

Pointless, perhaps... but can't anything be said to be pointless? Surely if someone loves to do something -- colour their skin with ink, for example -- the point is that they find it pleasing? I've spent a lot of time with tattoo artists, some of whom are fairly well-pierced. This level of modification doesn't bother me -- indeed, I love tattoos. But further than that, I have trouble understanding. Things like implants and cock rings seem a step too far, as does Hollywood-style cosmetic surgery. But that's why I'm asking the question: if surgery seems a "step too far", surely injecting ink into my skin is a "step too far"? And surely cutting away my hair and nails is a "step too far"? It's not just a shell; as I see things, we are our body. There is no separation between mind and body. But humans have been bestowed with an aesthetic eye, an appreciation for shapes and colours, a desire to create new things. So why not apply that to ourselves? Yes, of course.

I understand why you went here -- I considered asking about these things (food, drugs, etc) in the OP, as they obviously do affect us greatly, and if we consume 'bad' stuff we can indeed be said to be damaging the body, with long term abuse of such things having deeper and more far-reaching consequences than piercings or a hair cut. I absolutely appreciate that these things are more important to consider. However, there are many topics on health, diet, drugs, water quality, etc on TDB, and I think it can be taken for granted that the majority of us are trying to live healthier, less toxic lives, free of shitty foods and (excess) booze, drugs, etc. I decided not to mention damage to the inner body, or the body in general, in favour of focusing, for this thread, on outward body modification: hair, skin, etc. Perhaps I should have been more explicit in the OP. Hopefully we can focus, for this topic, not on a general "What is damaging to our bodies?" but the more specific "Where do you draw the line in terms of short-term/long-term changes to the outer body?"

Yes, judging by the dozens of square miles of construction work I've seen in the northeast... (I recall driving past many miles of unfinished and unoccupied buildings in Shandong province, and I lived in an apartment complex in Hebei with a capacity of at least 50,000 but at the time housing no more than a few thousand inhabitants..) ... there's lots of empty living space around China.. I can see that looking for ways to spread populations out probably has its positive aspects.

Please, share. I enjoy painting, and I enjoy Chinese landscapes... though I've never attempted to paint one myself.

The 'thank you' was for this..education is definitely the most important thing.. But I'm not so sure about this. Perhaps it would help to reduce population growth (reducing the population of any given city leading to less cramped and healthier living conditions, less competition, etc = less perceived need for having loads of babies), but... wouldn't a geographic spread lead to even greater destruction of as-yet relatively untouched wilderness? And then even greater ecological issues?

"The world today has 6.8 billion people. That's heading up to about nine billion. Now if we do a really great job on new vaccines, health care, reproductive health services, we could lower that by perhaps 10 or 15 percent!" I can't see why anyone would have any problem with this. It's not the only stuff to be focusing on, but it makes absolute sense (to anyone who makes any effort to understand the reasoning behind it). Of course, according to some, vaccines are an international government/medical conspiracy to give everyone mercury poisoning and autism, but...y'know...

As Seth mentioned, there has been quite a bit of misogyny on TDB in the past. Other forms of prejudice too, but the misogyny is most pronounced as gender is often prominently displayed, and far more important than "race" in most Taoist, Buddhist, and other similar discussion. There's also been far too many semen retention topics. I was in favour of the male-only forum purely in the hope that semen stuff would be relegated there. Alas, no.

Having said that, Seth, I just had a look in Nvwa, and it would appear that there have only been a couple of new topics started in the last few months, and that our female members just haven't had much to say... in the same way that there hasn't been much male activity in the Fuxi section (though there have been more than enough topics posted about the overtly male topic of semen retention in the Daoist Discussion and other forums... )

Yes... I'm sure that if the skin colour of members were generally known and in any way relevant then yes, there would be. But it's actually entirely irrelevant! (Whereas sex/gender is generally known and does often engender contention). There have been a couple of discussions on this in which a number of regular female members have agreed with the notion that male members should sometimes keep their noses out of female-oriented discussion. I would imagine that there is something of an attitude of resignation to the fact that some people just can't help it.

It is well-known that the government has persecuted Falun Dafa practitioners for many years... read through this site, it's got a lot of info: http://faculty.orinst.ox.ac.uk/terhaar/falun.htm

I don't doubt that there is a lucrative organ trade in China. I have heard horrible stories from friends. If certain things I've read online are true, and the majority of transplant organs come from prisoners, but there are loads more organs available for transplant than legally executed prisoners can account for, and certain people and organizations can make a lot of money from disappearing people and harvesting them... well... Suffice to say, I'm glad I'm not a rural Chinese person with an interest in Falun Dafa and a healthy liver.

"Members of the group are shown mocking up an operation as part of a 2014 protest."

Firstly, we don't need as much protein as we think. Bodybuilders talk of needing 1g protein for every pound of body weight... clearly utterly useless unless you're on huge amounts of PEDs. The average (not particularly active) adult male needs a maximum 60g/day, where an athlete might need around 1g per kg of body weight, which will rarely exceed 90g/day. Secondly, there is plenty of protein in most (edible) plants, e.g. nuts, legumes (peanuts, beans, peas, etc), cereals, green veg... even root veg and tubers. I hear talk all the time of eggs being "packed with protein", but a chicken egg has on average 13% protein where cereals (wheat, oats, etc) average 17%, and legumes ranging from 7% (green beans) to nearly 40% (soy). At 82kg and very active, I can get half of this daily protein recommendation just from breakfast: 100g pure-peanut peanut butter (28g protein), couple of slices of brown bread (10g protein), a couple of bananas (2g protein) = 40g protein. No problem! I am not trying to convince you of the benefits of vegan eating, just to dispel the myth that people can't get enough protein without meat and eggs.

Mmm crackling. At least you've got some fruit in there.

http://thedaobums.com/topic/37718-chinese-efficient-methods-of-learning/?p=611191 http://thedaobums.com/topic/37727-how-do-i-learn-chinese-well/ Any aspect of the language is made infinitely easier to grasp if one is, at the same time, able to grasp all other aspects. It can be broken up if necessary, into reading/writing and speaking/listening -- I know of researchers who can read ancient Chinese fluently but speak no word of modern Mandarin -- but I wouldn't go any further than that.