dust

Hmm. Well, either way, the categorizing of people is elitism. Not something I care to partake in. The Laozi talks of governance, obviously, but never to such an extent... it talks of impartiality, not ranking people by class or intellect.

None No If he's so special, why doesn't he take down the CCP single-handed? Sorry. It would be a ridiculous conversation if only the people who believed in this stuff were to answer Proof of where you got the info ≠ proof of veracity of said info i don't mean to ridicule; I only ask for honesty. Do you have even the slightest first-hand evidence that there's a shred of truth to any of these claims? If these things were possible, I'd love to know. But from this and a number of your other posts, I'm getting the impression that you're willfully misunderstanding what Taoist practice is actually about. These things are not possible, and the pursuit of them is a huge waste of time and energy. And that is decidedly un-Taoist.

Is 中黄子 supposed to be Laozi?

There is no job to do

I don't know about hate not being a feeling/emotion As the opposite of love, it's highly emotional As a version of continuous, seething anger, it's an intense feeling Maybe it doesn't matter how we define it, but.. if I feel it, and am told "Nah, you're not feeling anything, just change your attitude"... I think I'd just be burying a feeling under the guise of being practical and choosing a different attitude.

Actually that was a joke but now I kinda want one

2. Pur-chase one of these bad boys to show everyone he's a real Taoist, yo

'forfeit'... ha! I'm not challenging you to a duel! Just want to make sure that the info we're using is correct... I'll look at that some time...but there's a lot of Chinese right there... OK..I have no contradictory evidence here. Or, as you say, I'm not ready to debate it further, so... I will just say that I still don't feel very sure about 妙 as 'omens' or the like Again... still uncertain about 妙 Just my opinion, of course, but I still think that trying to tie this passage directly to governance is a little difficult. I'm going to hold on to the belief that it wasn't an original chapter and that the author went a bit too far with the obscurity

So far.... It's basically the same as many other translations, except speaking specifically of kings. I'm still not sure what to make of this king thing -- are we certain that Xunzi, in the 可道 passage, was speaking of kings specifically? I missed this before, but: 桓公曰：「事名二，正名五，而天下治。」「何謂事名二」？對曰：「天筴，陽也。壤筴，陰也，此謂事名二。」曰：「何謂正名五」。對曰：「權也、衡也、規 也、矩也、准也，此謂正名五。其在色者，青黃白黑赤也。其在聲者，宮商角徵羽也。其在味者，醉辛鹹苦甘也。二五者，童山竭澤，人君以數制之人。味者，所以 守民口也。聲者，所以守民耳也。色者，所以守民目也。人君失二五者，亡其國。大夫失二五者，亡其勢。民失二五者，亡其家，此國之至機也，謂之國機。」 Translated into modern Chinese (sorry non-Chinese readers, I can't be bothered to translate all this!) 桓公说：“在‘事名二正名五而天下治’这句话里，什么叫作‘事名二’呢？”管仲回答说：“天道为阳，地道为阴，这就是事名二。”“什么叫正名五呢？”回答 说：“权、衡、规、矩、准，这就是正名五。它们体现在颜色上，就分青、黄、白、黑、赤；体现在声音上，就分宫、商、羽、微、角；体现在味觉上，就分酸、 辣、咸、苦、甜。这里的利用‘二五’，同上面的‘童山竭泽’一样，都是人君用来控制人们的。五味，是用来控制人们饮食的；五声是用来控制人们听欲的；五 色，是用来控制人们观赏的。人君丢掉了‘二五’，就会亡国；大夫丢掉了 ‘二五’，就丧失权势；普通人丢掉了‘二五’，也不能治理一家。这是国家最重要的关键，所以叫作‘国机’。” Essentially, this isn't about corrected names but the names of the 5 attributes that make someone 'zheng'. The bold: "When the king loses the '2 and 5', the country dies; when a powerful man loses the '2 and 5', he loses power; when a normal man loses the '2 and 5', he can't manage even his own household." The '2' refers to Heaven and Earth as yang and yin; the '5' refers to these 5 qualities (as translated above), which can be applied to flavours, colours, sounds, etc, and used to control people.

Before I say anything else, I'd like to see all parts put together...brackets and all Right now, all I see when I read the Chinese is the meaning I already have in my head.

'Sup.

Yeah.. then after that I realized that I should not have interfered

Right Personally I'd choose a different word than 'invent' but basically, yes Yes. My parents have always been wonderful, but teachers and social custom generally have been a hindrance So I have a related question, which I was wondering about a creating a topic for, but now this topic is here: What about hatred? If anger is natural, and should (when necessary) be expressed healthily in order to control it healthily, should we also allow ourselves to hate?

But if the miao in 以观其妙 means weimiao meaning "extra-sensory signals", does the miao in 众妙之门 not also mean that? "Heaven is the gate to all extra-sensory signals from Heaven" ...

That's why my way is the best way! The Way of no way! (No way!) Yes way!

True, but blaming disease and death on meat and dairy (as many do) when there are plenty of people who thrive on the stuff also seems a bit shaky I feel that the recent use of pesticides & hormones and inorganic farming generally is probably the major cause of any bad effects we get from eating animal products. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Icelandic_cuisine#Types_of_food Fresh fish, and free-range, grass-fed, happy sheep and cows. There might be some walrus consumption, I don't know(..!) It might be that their diet has nothing to do with their longevity. And I'm not suggesting we should all eat loads of cows and forget carrots.... Always do

Last year, on the crowded bus home from work, standing and listening to music, someone stamped on my foot. I turned around to see 2 men trading blows. Man A was crouched in the window seat, man B was in the aisle next to me, and man A's wife was in the aisle seat trying to break them up and getting in the crossfire. Eager to help, and man B being right next to me, I pinned his arms to his sides and tried to drag him back -- though there was nowhere to drag him to. This gave man A the opportunity to land a number of free punches to B's face. When I realised I couldn't actually hold them both back, B was getting a bloody nose, and no one else was going to help, I gave up. I turned back around, put my earphones back in, and forgot about them. They must've come to some kind of peace because when I got off the bus man B had gone and the others were sitting back down (a little worse for wear). This is how I first learned the virtue of (direct) non-interference.

Well this conversation died...

Ahh... The scenario was something I felt was serious and unlikely -- it wasn't intended as a realistic example, but simply something that would almost certainly inspire anger in most people if witnessed. That said, I don't know that Laozi was some kind of demigod who could perceive all possible actions and outcomes of every situation and manipulate people as he liked...

I'd translate that as "to look and not see, listen and not hear, is called [subtle mystery / whatever]" Also still not convinced that the Wenzi knows all OK Well maybe you can work on proving that one next! Feel like destroying the foundations of Taoism? Sorry.. it's just that, if we're trying to make the passage less cryptic/mystical, "But Heaven (is not empty but) but is a pregnant Heaven, for Heaven is the gate of all miracles." doesn't really help. Why are we talking about miracles, for example? Point taken, but this isn't entirely what I meant. It seems to me that it would require brackets explaining things even to a contemporary of Laozi, because the whole passage jumps around from idea to idea with no explanation.

Yeah. There does seem to be a link between (processed/biologically altered) animal products and calcification (and Alzheimer's, apparently). I just wonder if it's as simple as drink milk > calcium builds up > gland calcifies > take serrapeptase > calcium goes away especially considering what seems like a link between fluoride and calcification. There's a big (vegan) anti-milk movement these days, and I don't trust it. Icelanders have the 6th highest life expectancy on the planet and they eat meat and dairy as the main staples...

Neither Taoism nor Buddhism is a cult where every member ends up sharing the same brain and doing the same things. There's no strict code of ethics in Taoist philosophy. Though there is a shared desire to be more tranquil, I guess. Members here on TTB follow vastly different practices and have unique experiences, and all are human. And not every person who calls herself 'Taoist' is at the same stage of development/cultivation... a wise old master like Laozi might have been tranquil and easy-going, but most 'Taoists' are just ordinary people who are trying to find harmony. I can have a terrible temper, and since I started focusing on Laozi's philosophy, combined with some qigong and other meditation & breathing exercises, I've managed to gain a lot of self-awareness and some control over my anger response. But if I saw someone punching a baby in the face, I'd get angry, and I'd have very little control. I doubt if even Laozi himself, for all his suggestion to be impartial and placid, would've been so inhuman as to not get angry over things like that...

I was kind of with you, up until this point. 故 would mean that we're following on from what what said before...but it doesn't really follow on 恒有欲 as "to know when to desire" doesn't make much sense to me 徼幸 I can see, but 微妙 as "spiritual extra-sensory signals from heaven" ?? http://www.zdic.net/c/e/14c/328304.htm 指精微深奥的道理 -- referring to subtle but profound truth 此 referring to governing now? All of this is undermined by a number of other chapters which definitely tell us that desires aren't very good... And the last line is just as much 'gibberish' as the usual translations! I'd like to see it put together into one full translation and see how it reads then.. my feeling is that it will be fairly disjointed and need a lot of brackets explaining things

1. Studies apparently show that drinking milk reduces bone density; what makes you think your pineal gland is 'calcified' ? 2. Based on what evidence (other than Amazon reviews) do you think that serrapeptase "dissolves any non-living tissue" ? 3. What's a "superenzyme" ? 4. The dantian is a general area, not a physical organ like the heart or kidneys