dayzhaze

I refuse to continue this line of questioning.

"Color me crazy but I'm still waiting to see this oft-vaunted tangible scientific evidence." "Lots of videos of people lighting paper on fire with their bare hands but they show how it it is done." "not offering proof" You can see credentialed professionals attempt to debunk him and fail. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w2l6zFOG5f0

My own direct experience confirms what John Chang taught Kosta. However I will not get into the details. It stands only to lengthen this argument.

I was certain the point of mo pai was to become an immortal spirit, but perhaps I am wrong. I am curious to see what they say.

"certainly not the goal of any students. " If not to become a immortal spirit, what is the point of the system in your opinion?

Yes, but only for a few hundred years, he was eventually reeled back in if I remember correctly.

"tantien filled with compacted yang chi is enough to exit reincarnation," I can almost certainly guarantee you it isn't. I feel as morepie does that we have been given this gift, and are expected to complete it before more is given to us.

John Chang's assessment is more important to me.

"Hopefully tonkosong and Neikung will clear up these questions." I don't think they like us much to be honest. I can't blame them based on the absolutely outrageous behavior I've seen, and emails that have been forwarded to me as examples of this insanity. I honestly have to wonder if China and Indonesia have a general population as out of control and insane as we do. I have hard time believing our society is holding together and is as functional as it is if most people are like the ones I've encountered who are interested in mopai. I don't think even if they knew of an alternative they would suggest it openly, imagine if they did these people would start a mass exodus to trample the teacher they suggest to death, or run his name through the mud like they do John Chang, Kosta and Jim. Maybe you should try messing them in private.

My mentor, and friend breaks it down into cases. Case 1. Eternal afterlife occurs after death. (this can be heaven or hell, but is eternal) Case 2. Eternal nonexistence occurs after death (no rebirth occurs) Case 3. Eventual reincarnation occurs. Only case 3 is unacceptable. I agree with this, and also John Chang's personal belief is that reincarnation occurs, and the point of mo pai is to break it at level 30+.

"Is completing 2a (in other words: most likely the result of a compacted mass of yang chi in your tantien) enough for being able to leave the cycle of reincarnation or not?" I am fairly certain Kosta says level 30 is the minimum to break reincarnation. I would be curious to know if a 2a is able to take any yang chi at all with them after they die, or if they become a purely yin spirit though. "If yes, then the to westerners available Mo Pai levels are worth to train in," Perhaps if we complete 2a we will be allowed by Jodo to find another teacher who can help us. I do not believe our creator gave us this information for no reason.

Continue basic meditation, and look for another teacher willing to prove himself to scientists and doctors.

I am not going to argue John or Kosta did or did not say anything, because it is an exercise in futility to play chess with a pigeon. Please note I am not actually calling you a pigeon, it's just a saying expressing it's impossible to argue with someone that doesn't adhere to the rules of the game.

"I believe is Kosta was writing down (truthfully) what Chang told him." Then if Kosta was telling the truth, Chang demonstrated feats more amazing than telekinesis to him. "I believe Jim was faked out on the telekinesis" Yeah I think so too. John was a dishonest, magician seeking to scam money out of his students, and defraud them, so he set up tests like this to psyche them out. That's what happened, I'm sure of it! He probably paid the credentialed professions that went to debunk him, so they made it look real. How evil is that to scam all those people out of millions of dollars! What a terrible scam artist John Chang is! "And those arts have real teachers" Not like those fake nasty money scamming magicians like John Chang! YEAH!

"this has been taught by Liping, Lin and Jiang Feng." I've seen no evidence these teachers are legitimate, until I do their words are useless for me. "This will be my last post on this site" Will you give me $1.00 if this turns out to be false?

I have no doubt Kosta still meditates, but there is no point in him continuing training he has already completed. John has given him no more instruction, so he cannot continue. What you are saying to me sounds like, Kosta replaced the engine in his car, but because he can't find a transmission for it, he should instead replace the engine again.

"You have said I have wrong views from Taoist Yoga - please be more specific. thanks." I wonder if Well's point is that you have the wrong views from it, or that rather it itself is a false teaching. I would think if Taoist Yoga was for real, that it would lead to beings like John Chang. If so we aren't seeing good evidence of it.

"People like you and MPG sit and think you can puzzle together and guess at an art that's been developed over 3 millennia from behind your computer screen." All Morepie and the other space pandas do is quote Kosta and Jim. Kosta and Jim both know and understood what John Chang taught them. The other groups like SifuRel and SonOfTheGods invent their own practices and call them mopai. "And worst then that, believe you are qualified to teach other those tehniques" The first thing Morepie said to me was "I'm a student, not a teacher" and "I will force you to answer your own questions by reading Jim and Kosta's work". All he did was point out relevant sections of the book, make me ask questions, and answer them via the books, and other material written by Jim and Kosta. Never once did he try to teach me anything they didn't say. "You are arrogant, egotistical and foolish in my opinion." Not that it matters as no one will care but this is a direct personal attack on Wells. "And BTW I truly believe that MPG's views and the practices he endorses as "the real way of practicing" to be incorrect and potentially lead to sickness." What you fail to see is Morepie doesn't have a dog in the fight. He quotes Jim and Kosta and that's it. IF anyone is wrong it is Jim and Kosta. I will trust anything they say over your opinion any day, as they were actual students of John Chang. "Not to mention that there are very few things I dislike more than a dogmatic, close minded person." That's not who my mentor is at all. He is more open minded than anyone I've ever met, he just requires good evidence to believe in something. This is what reasonable people do, ask for evidence.

Because he has no more instruction to follow, he has gone as far as he can go without John Chang giving him further instruction. The point of the beginning levels, is to fill, compress, and make the LDT mobile. Once this is done, if further instruction is not provided your training stops. I am certain Kosta still meditates, you can't forget what you experience on the other side in actual meditation,and you will always want to return, the desire to return to this is even stronger than basal biological drives. However there is no point in continuing training he has already completed.

It is my understanding Kosta still receives hundreds of emails a week from lunatics. I think Kosta is burnt out having to deal with the insanity. I know my mentor and friend morepie has this same problem. He has forwarded me emails so crazy I question how these people haven't wound up in insane asylums. Obviously Kosta didn't have this attitude when he wrote his books, but he became progressively more cynical as time went on. I think Kosta started out with the attitude that there were lots of other people like him, intelligent, rational, serious individuals, and reality has changed his stance. This is also the vibe I get from morepie.

I agree with you. Teachers are not obligated to prove their abilities. On the other hand, students are not required to investigate every fraud on earth to try and find a needle in a hay stack.

"you can't progress beyond level 1." Even if this is true, I would rather spend my life focused on something real, even if that meant only ever attaining level 1. I and many of the others wish more than anything a viable alternative to mopai existed.

"the least experienced" Talking with morepie, all he as ever done with me is quote Jim and Kosta. Nothing he has taught used his own words, but rather those of Jim and Kosta. I agree he may not be experienced, but they are.

I think Kosta was telling the truth I think Chang is a master, great healer, can do the electro shocks with his body. If Kosta told the truth, then Chang is capable of much more than electro shocks. "Why Jim could only perform telekinesis in a dark basement when Chang and his friends were there." Jim had not attained level 4 yet, he could not project yang outside his body without a yin field present. John provided that for the demonstration.

Jim and Kosta understand what John Chang taught them. I and the others in the group would rather pursue something real even if incomplete, than nothing at all.