dayzhaze

It's his pen name, the contents of his books in reference to what John Chang said are accurate. You can email him yourself and ask this question. I wrote to him to ask if the story behind Liao Sifu was real or if he took poetic license to make it sound more fantastic. His response to me was that was what John told him, exactly as John told him.

I am not sure you can reason with such a person. I am sending prayers to our creator that his perception is healed. Even if you don't believe in that, I hope you will meditate with metta for him.

"unsafe and incomplete manner" The instructions come straight from Jim and Kosta. "students of Jiang Feng" Neither I nor any other member of our group has seen any good evidence to for Jiang's supposed abilities. Good evidence meaning credentialed professions were present to rule out fraud. "was swiftly shut down as a "troll"" It is their forum, they do not tolerate people coming in and claiming Jim and Kosta lied or misunderstood what they were taught, or general disrespect. They created their own forum to get away from the insanity here, and I can understand why they wouldn't tolerate people like you or your friends there. "(there have been "students" of MPG who went to Jiang Feng after years of training only to find out that they hadn't acquired any qi at all and wasted their time)" When I first met morepie I had all kids of misconceptions about what mopai and meditation in general were about. He worked hard to show me exactly why what I believed was meditation had nothing to do with what mo pai considers meditation. I can obviously see why most who attempt would fail, because they lack the understanding of what it is they are even supposed to be doing. You can lead a horse to water but you cannot make it drink. I believe morepie does his best, but you can't expect people who think they know better, or who refuse to listen or pay attention to accomplish anything. Furthermore we do not know if Jiang is fraud yet or not, none of us have seen any good evidence to support his abilities yet. If he is a fraud there is no sense in listening to opinions. "they spread misinformation and false ideas." All morepie does is quote Jim and Kosta, that is it. If anyone is "guilty" of spreading misinformation, and false ideas it is them.

"As you have had no proper schooling in the Mo Pai System" Jim and Kosta did, I have been given Jim's teachings, and teachings from one of Kosta's students which confirms Jim's. I was not charged anything for either. I can verify these teachings are accurate based on their books which are public information. "I do wonder how you will be able to recognise "an alternative" when you run across it." Scientists will be able to able to verify the system, as they have done with John Chang and mopai.

1. I refuse to answer, as it serves only lengthen this argument. 2. Jim and Kosta were not, that doesn't mean they misunderstood what they were taught. All morepie has done is quote Jim and Kosta, and he has not tried to establish himself as an authority, even though he was Jim's student from 2006 onward. 3. I have, you not being convinced is your own problem, and not mine.

This came up in skype, morepie isn't able to achieve actual meditation unless he dedicates a full weekend to meditation. He still meditates one hour each night even though that time is not in actual meditation, and less than 2% of it is actually useful. You and your group look for any opportunity to attack him, Ken, and Wells, to discredit them. I suggest you go get a life.

1. Finishing all the levels Jim made available to us. 2. Jim was Chang's top western student, he died in 2013, but morepie was his student from 2006 or so I am told. So far in my talks with morepie all he has done is directly quote Jim and Kosta so I know for a fact what I am being taught is correct. Morepie has never requested any form of payment for his trouble. 3. I would rather complete the first few levels of a system that is real, than pursue fake systems that lead nowhere. A fraction of a percent is still greater than zero.

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Maybe I have finally lost my mind, but wasn't there a comment just a second ago from "MooNiNite" replying to Nungali saying he felt the evidence for JC was overwhelming. Is there a reason why this was deleted?

As I have said before I am not Morepie, Ken, or Wells. We have spoken before on another forum, where I go by a different username. We know according to Chang that it usually takes most people ten years to complete level one, if they meditate one hour per day each day. Keeping a journal is the only option available to us to track our progress. This however does not mean Jim and Kosta did not understand exactly what they were taught.

I am interested in the answer to this as well.

"Well you are correct about the first part, no one in the west is qualified to be a teacher." Both Jim and Kosta were intelligent men, and understood what John Chang taught them. This mantra that your group chants, that Jim and Kosta lied to us, or misunderstood, does not agree with the reality they were able to complete their training and be tested to their level.

Speaking with Morepie on Skype he does not "believe" in reincarnation. Dividing possible outcomes after death into various possible cases. Case 1, you die and eternal nonexistence occurs. Case 2, you die and an eternal afterlife occurs without reincarnation. Case 3, eventual reincarnation occurs. He finds the possibility of Case 3, eventual reincarnation to be unacceptable, either Case 1 or 2 are acceptable. I am also inclined to agree with his thinking, not to mention that John Chang himself also believes in reincarnation although he states it is not knowledge but rather a personal belief.

Sabertooth, unfortunately they have already made their decision. Your best bet would be to seek out either SonOfTheGods or SifuRel for further instruction.

Jim was the top western student, short of training under Chang himself we cannot hope for better instruction. Jim's words on the practice survive him. Morepie was one of his first students. Jim was a real teacher.

John Chang was a real teacher, Jim was his top western student. Morepie was one of Jim's earliest students. So far all Morepie has done is quote Jim and Kosta directly, and does not try to establish himself as some authority. I have absolutely no doubt he was one of Jim's first students, and that he genuinely cares what Chang actually taught Jim and Kosta. Again I ask you to stop dragging Morepie's name through the mud here, as he was banned by the biased administration and moderation teams for no reason whatsoever and can't defend himself.

Neikung, I spoke with Morepie on skype and he says to tell you that neither he nor Ken will offer assistance to Sabertooth, due to mental health concerns. I don't think you have to worry about that. As to Morepie not knowing what he is talking about, he claims he was one of Jim's first students starting in 2006. In my talks with him all he ever does is quote Jim and Kosta to validate what he is saying. I believe he does indeed know what he is talking about. Furthermore he has never asked for any compensation at all. I kindly ask you and your group stop dragging his name through the mud for your own enjoyment.

Shoddy reasoning!? Every chance your group gets it trolls supporters of mopai, about how ridiculous the evidence for John Chang is. You go on and on about how the scientists faked it, they were actors, it was a magic trick, or some other nonsense. Then you turn around and argue for demonstrations that are obviously stage magic???

There are a lot of people in the Skype group that share this view, besides myself or mopaiguy. May our creator bless you, and your family. With Metta, Namaste.

It isn't a teacher's obligation to prove themselves to anyone While this is true, certainly I am not going to waste my time investigating millions of placebo gong teachers that have nothing to offer in hopes of eventually finding someone like John Chang. I am under no obligation to embark on such a fools errand. Isn't worth the trouble to find a complete and legitimate system with a living lineage? You have strange priorities. Isn't it worth winning the lottery 100 times in a row? I mean come on! How awesome would that be! Why don't you just do it!? You have strange priorities. You can't just walk down the street and find a school like mopai, all there is openly is placebo gong nonsense. you have no idea how many there are or aren't if you've never taken the time to search. John did, and gave us a pretty good idea. He has proven himself worthy of being taken seriously, and listening to. Even if he was off by a factor of 100 the odds of finding one is abysmal. accusing people of being fraudulent I guess it isn't fraud if people know what they are buying. As my teacher says all this is just "spiritual roleplay and entertainment" if people know what it really is, and still want to buy it, more power to them I guess. absolutely absurd and arrogant. It is no such thing. It's just using common sense, and being reasonable. I think the biggest issue you guys have with it, is that it breaks character, breaks the 4th wall of the spiritual community if you will. That's a cardinal sin it seems. you aren't training in the Mo Pai lineage. Speak for yourself not for me. the issue of learning from books and online instructions and leaked emails Indeed those resources are available to me to verify what I am being told by my teacher is true and accurate. He studied with Jim for more than 7 years, and Jim was the top student from the west during his time with Chang. You seem to forget that Chang himself learned through a teacher, and that's how this system works. Compared to what? You have no idea what is or isn't "placebo" Compared to placebo gong nonsense. Yes I do, and so does anyone else with common sense. I also find Danaos' thoughts on the issue rather interesting: Kosta is burnt out from dealing with thousands of toxic and delusional placebo gongers. I can't blame him from wanting to disinvolve himself with the community. Perhaps the systems he suggested are the best alternatives that he is aware of, that doesn't mean they are good ones. Did he do that just to placate the "delusional new-agey space cadets"? Indeed Kosta has worked hard to maintain good relations with the spiritual community at large. Had he not done so he would be just another space panda. Or are the Naropa Yogas and Chen Taiji both "placebo gong" because there are no videos of practitioners settings newspapers on fire? What about Kundalini Yoga, which he dedicated a sizable portion of his second book to discussing? I've seen no evidence they lead anywhere, having an old lineage doesn't mean it does anything. An admirable attitude, but it rather contradicts your whole "everything is bunk unless it's been filmed while some dudes with some kind of science degrees are present, No it doesn't. Our creator gave me a brain and expects me to use it, and I intend on doing so. I refuse to waste my time chasing fantasies and placebo gong teachers. I will instead pursue what has been proven to be real. So basically wherever he disagrees with you, If kosta were blunt and honest about the spiritual community at large he would be just as unpopular and hated as mopaiguy or the rest of the space pandas, I think he has gone to extraordinary measures to be perceived in a more positive light, even if that meant pandering to newage placebo gongers. Written instructions aren't "oral transmission" by definition - that's leaving out all the problems caused by the absence of a teacher. No but oral transmission is oral transmission. Also I have a teacher, oral instruction, and written instruction. I can confirm what I was taught orally by my teacher who was Jim's student was accurate via what Jim wrote, and other students who studied under Kosta wrote. Chang learned by training directly, in person, at the feet of a man who had mastered the system himself. I studied under my teacher, he under Jim, and Jim directly under Chang. That's how this works. I didn't misread you at all, Yes you did. I stated that if Kosta had been blunt and honest, like the space panda group that the anti-mopai faction would have strung Kosta up just as they have done the space pandas. Obviously he was smarter than that and knew how to pander, and placate the ignorant masses to avoid such a fate. You wrote "No, because if they openly string up Kosta, they lose the ability to cite his books as a textbook/manual and thus lose most of their legitimacy." The spacepandas would not be the one stringing Kosta up, the anti-mopai faction would be. Even if the anti-mopai faction hated Kosta more than they currently do, the space pandas would still quote him as an authority because he is. The anti-mopai group isn't going to accept anything Kosta said if they disagree with it no matter what, it will just be accused of being a mistranslation or some other nonsense. now you're accusing him of outright lying to defend your own position when he disagrees with your worldview. When you are a public figure like Kosta, you have to be extremely careful with how you are perceived, or you could wind up a space panda. Listening to his interview, his inflections, mannerisms, I honestly feel as though he is gritting his teeth in pain, and having to swallow his pride and pander to those silly newage people so as not to step on any toes, hey but perhaps I am wrong and he actually believes what he is saying to them. Experience has taught me to understand there is more to language than just words, some things are inferred via such mannerisms like sarcasm. And there is no "anti-Mo Pai" faction here, Did you type that lie with a straight face, or did you smirk? alleged Mo Pai techniques Not alleged. using written/leaked/third hand instructions Again Jim was Chang's number one student from the west. My teacher studied with him for more than 7 years. I can confirm what I am taught via Jim's own words, and the teachings of Kosta passed down by his students. It is a direct oral transmission, in addition to having written notes to confirm them. This is how the school has worked since it's beginning, from teacher to student. It is how Chang himself learned it. doesn't have a youtube video of them demonstrating energetic powers is a complete fraud" The important part is having scientists and medical doctors investigate to rule out fraud. That's the important part you left out. counter the toxic rhetoric put out by the members of your group. It's only toxic to roleplay. It is simple, and should be common sense. Asking for proof is the first step in being a critical thinker. If you can't do this you will be conned. With Metta. May our creator bless you and your family, Namaste.

Alright Mr. "I'm not going to drag this out" How do they know what a given teacher/system is or isn't capable of if they've never investigated it? John stepped up and allowed himself to be investigated by scientists, other teachers if they are legitimate can do the same. "The irony of this whole thing is that if it hadn't been for a communication error between Chang and a documentary crew 20 odd years ago, Chang would never have been revealed to the West and you, lacking your youtube videos, would disbelieve anyone who came online claiming they had met this man who could perform all these feats which are labelled as impossible by current Western scientific consensus." So what? Sure there may be teachers like him hidden, there certainly aren't many, and it certainly isn't worth anyone's trouble to try and investigate millions of placebo gong frauds to find one legit teacher. If you think the situation stinks you go invest your time and money investigating placebo gong frauds and demanding evidence you'll never get from them. Don't you see how absurd and arrogant that stance is?" There is nothing arrogant or absurd about it, it's how the world is. You can accept it, or you can live in a fantasy world. Either way is fine by me. You aren't invested in Mo Pai Speak for yourself, not for me. You're invested in the interpretation of Mo Pai Speak for yourself, not for me. a guy who trained with Mo Pai for a few years before being cut off. So, he knows what he was taught and that's all that matters. I can read his words directly for myself. dead end pseudo-system Even the first few levels of a REAL system are infinitely more profound and meaningful than make believe placebo gong nonsense. seeking out a legitimate master There are a small handful of such individuals alive on earth, my odds of finding a real teacher are worse than winning the lottery. As my teacher says: "We do the best we can with what we have" why not seek one out now and begin training directly under them? Why not win the lottery 100 times in a row and quit being poor? I mean that could happen right? Why not do it? "If you know you're eventually going to have to find a master anyway, why put it off?" Our creator opens doors when we've finished what we've been given, and not before. So basically you've decided to completely reinterpret what he's said to fit your own assumptions? No I can just tell he is pandering to some poor delusional new-agey space cadets rather than be honest with them, and wind up in a situation like I am, or the space panda group is. It's obvious to me he is intelligent enough to bite his lip, and play along with the placebo gongers to avoid conflict. Being honest makes life infinitely more difficult. you should listen to him I did, they didn't know or care. accept online guides from someone who trained under someone who trained under someone etc etc That's not the case. This system works via oral transmission. I have direct instruction as written verbatim by Jim. I also have indirect instruction by Kosta from his students. This is how Chang himself learned, from a teacher. That's how this process works. No, because if they openly string up Kosta, they lose the ability to cite his books as a textbook/manual and thus lose most of their legitimacy. You misread what I typed. The Anti-Mopai faction here doesn't cite Kostas books, or even think they are legitimate. What I said was if Kosta were to come out and be honest with you guys with uncomfortable truths you don't want to hear, you would string him up just like the space panda group, or anyone else who takes up for mopai in general. finding a living, genuine lineage Again winning the lottery 100 times in a row would be a more realistic feat. I've got enough training in a real system to satisfy me till I die if need be. If our creator does not see fit to open any more doors for me before I return to him, then so be it. Now you've said a few times you'd stop dragging this out. I ask that you stick to your word and stop doing just that. I sincerely share my Metta with you. May our creator bless you and your family, Namaste.

I don't think they are trying to win you over with beliefs, or personal testimonies to it's efficacy. They are presenting you with evidence to examine and appealing to your reason, and logic. I think the core problem here is that most spiritual people are not logical or reasonable, don't value those qualities, and even consider them undesirable in spiritual matters. With Metta. May our creator bless you, and your family, Namaste.

"There are two ways to be fooled: one is to believe what isn’t true, the other is to refuse to believe what is true." -Soren Kierkegaard "posted a video of John Chang lighting a bulb." "You have no evidence that Mo Pai will provide any results" You are right, lighting a LED light bulb is a David Blane type magic trick.. Lighting a LED is not evidence. It isn't until you bring in scientists and medical doctors to try and debunk it, that the reality of the situation is proven. "This proves nothing." Yes it does. It happened, and you have to deal with it. Well technically I suppose you can sit in your chair and mumble to yourself about 2+2=5 and the sky being neon green, that's on you. "even if it does" It does. "you will not realise those results" Speak for yourself, not for me. "you will never have access to that system. You have chosen a path upon which you will never set foot." Really? That's news to me. I guess Jim and Kosta were in the same boat. "This would be tragic were it not laughable." Oh I completely agree. It is both comedy and tragedy. What other forums can you go to where the make believe is treasured, and proof so despised? It's enough to make a persons head explode from the absurdity. It is no wonder the neigong forum had to be created to get away from this insanity. "So please feel free to continue along your road to nowhere" You mean somewhere. Demanding proof a system does anything at all, locating it's teachings, and practicing it leads somewhere. What leads to nowhere is finding placebo gong schools, and listening to teachers who can't prove their abilities. With Metta, May our creator bless you, and your family, Namaste.

"Plenty of people have claimed it over the course of these Mo Pai debates." That's certainly not the perspective I get from speaking with them. They are open to any system so long as there is evidence on par with mopai provided. That seems reasonable to me. "traveling, meeting teachers, investigating other systems" I'm satisfied with what I have. Almost 100 percent of all systems are placebo gong, and I am not rich enough to investigate them all. I think the best I can do personally is invest my time in a school which has proven itself, and complete all that I can before wasting my time searching for more. "Why not seek out your own evidence, find your own path and gain legitimate instruction?" I have both. "or whatever it is and have nowhere further to go?" Our creator will either create a path for me to the next step, or the creator will not. Whatever happens I am ok with that. I won't waste my time on false teachers and placebo gong though. "systems are valid in his books and in interviews he has given." The anti-mopai faction hates anyone who says there is no proof like mo pai for other systems. That is seen as arrogant, and enraging. So if Kosta said something like that, don't you think they would string him up too? I've spoken with Kosta and he is very careful with his wording in emails, because he is always being watched and anything he says can be used against him later. In his interviews I get the impression he is having to pretend very hard to blend in with and humor the people asking questions so as not to offend them. He is a smart man, and walks on eggshells to avoid as much criticism as he can, and I can't blame him. I mean look where being blunt and honest got the space panda group. As to other valid systems, I begged and pleaded with Kosta for some time for recommendations for schools or paths like mopai and was given nothing other than go find a Buddhist/Taoist temple and ask them sort of response. So I think Kosta humors the general public about his own personal beliefs to avoid the type of vitriol that gets sprayed in the eyes of the space pandas. I can't say it is a bad strategy. With Metta. May our creator bless you and your family, Namaste.

"There are two ways to be fooled: one is to believe what isn’t true, the other is to refuse to believe what is true." -Soren Kierkegaard You can laugh at the evidence. You can stick your head in the sand and pretend there is no evidence. Claiming there is no evidence the sky is blue, or that 2+2=4 is certainly your prerogative. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w2l6zFOG5f0 With Metta. May our creator bless you, and your family, Namaste.