dayzhaze

I can empathize with the people I've met from the other forum. I can see why interacting with you anti-mopai people is so incredibly frustrating. "he's instructing students (through a translator? and then of course the quotes are being conveyed several years after the fact), not giving a general lecture on the nature of Chi." "I think all this third hand "something said by a master, then translated by a student to another student, then written down from that student's notes years later" stuff is a pretty silly thing to become so dogmatic about. These books aren't the direct and approved teachings of John Chang, Mo Pai Master, they're accounts written by his students (again, years after the fact, and with none of them speaking to him in his native language), combining details from notes and memory (at least some of which conflict between books) with (at least in the case of Danaos, I haven't read McMillan's book) a whole boatload of personal views, theorizing and outright speculation (some of which is depicted as fact to varying degrees)." You do indeed criticize Jim and Kosta here for receiving and oral teaching and writing it down, that's appears to be how the system works, and how John Chang himself got instruction in mopai. You claim otherwise but you forget that I am literate and I can read your words quite plainly. "just because they're written by men who spent some time training under a man with powerful energetic abilities." They weren't just some men who visited Chang for a weekend, they were students. Jim supposedly completed 2b, and Kosta was given 2b instruction. That is correct at least to the best of my understanding. John himself tested them as completing each level. "having spent time training with Chang doesn't make the authors any less prone to personal bias or misinterpretation," This same criticism could equally be applied to Chang, his teacher, his teacher's teacher, and so forth. If they were misinterpreting instruction it would have been impossible to complete and be tested to their level. This same criticism could be used against Chang himself, in regards to the teaching he received from his teacher. "statements or instructions which are given within the context of training in a specific system shouldn't be generalized to apply to all systems, or to metaphysical models in general." I believe you are right here, as I said earlier maybe other schools figured out how to get yin chi and not be grounded. However I haven't seen any evidence at all for systems that claim this, and I have for mopai. It seems reasonable to me to reevaluate this if and when some other system with conflicting metaphysics can offer evidence like mopai has. The problem is that you don't have access to their teachings Please speak for yourself, and not for me. You have access to the interpretation of their teachings, accompanied by liberal amounts of speculation and personal bias, in the form of books written by men who studied under Chang via a translator for a few years and never advanced very far (relatively speaking) within the system. That's all Chang had too, remember his Master was Chinese and he was Indonesian. I assume his master learned Indonesian just as Chang learned English. Jim and Kosta had access to Chang's "Interpretation" of his teachers teachings. Again this criticism makes absolutely no sense whatsoever as unless there is some direct mind transfer ability going on between Chang's master and himself, that is how this system passes it's knowledge down from generation to generation. If this kind of thing can happen with a simple Tai Chi form, when everyone involved is transmitting the practice directly, how much easier is it for misunderstandings or reinterpretations to slip in when we're talking about books written by students from notes taken during conversations which were being held through a translator? Students (and translators) with their own worldviews and agendas which don't necessarily match up with the original teacher? And much more complicated subject matters - meditation methods and metaphysical cosmologies. Jim and Kosta were tested to their level and passed, they couldn't have completed the teachings if they didn't understand what they were taught. The argument you are making doesn't hold water. Kinda my point - just because deep meditation with the perineum exposed to the ground is the method by which enough of what Mo Pai refers to as Yin Chi is cultivated to carry out their specific techniques, doesn't mean that it's the only way of accessing Yin energy in some form, or that the Yin energy attained in this manner is the only form of Yin energy, or that any technique which doesn't involve the Yin via perineum method cannot produce results. As I stated previously, maybe other systems figured out something mopai didn't. Until I see evidence for those systems though I'll side with mopai any day. If I want yin energy in excess of what normal food, water, and normal life can provide I will remain grounded when I meditate. This seems reasonable to me at least. But being an engineer, spending a few years practicing the method taught by John Chang and conversing with him via translator and doing some reading on Daoism on the side doesn't make him or his books some kind of definitive authority on all things regarding meditation, internal arts or vital energy. And intelligent people are just as prone to bias, to misinterpretation, to misunderstanding, and so on, as anyone. Again this criticism would apply to Chang as much as it would Kosta. I can think of no one more qualified than Kosta to give an account of what he saw and experienced, and what Chang taught him. He had to understand the material well enough to practice correctly and pass his exams. At the end of the day he did the work, he was tested and he passed. guides put together from the books and leaked emails and word of mouth, with no guidance from a teacher, This is not the case, my teacher studied with Jim McMillan for nearly 8 years before Jim died. Jim's teachings are preserved as well, and I can read them for myself. Again this is how the system works, from teacher to student, each generation. I have to wonder what excuses and arguments you would develop if John Chang himself posted a youtube series confirming what Jim and Kosta said he taught. I don't believe there would ever be an end to it, even if you met him in person and he told you so himself. Namaste and may our creator bless you.

Hello Aeran, My gut is telling me I am making a horrible mistake by interacting here, but here goes: You criticize Jim, and Kosta for receiving an oral teaching, and in turn writing down what they were taught. I mean I'll give you that maybe John Chang got a direct mind transfer of information from his teacher, but maybe he didn't. Maybe John just paid attention to what his teacher taught him like Jim and Kosta did, and like Jim and Kosta's students did. It seems reasonable to believe that's how this system works. Assuming we rule out the direct mind transfer of information, I'm not sure what other option there is here, or why this is a bad thing. You also state that other systems can absorb yin chi ungrounded, yes maybe other systems figured out how to do that. Seeing the evidence for mopai though makes me inclined to listen to their teachings over the others, at least until the others can provide the same level of evidence. To me this seems reasonable, maybe my thinking is wrong though? You also mention that we would all be yin deprived unless we ground ourselves, I don't think that is true necessarily. I would think normal human amounts of yin energy would be supplied via our interaction with the ground, and with the food and water we drink. Mopai seems to be about gathering abnormally large amounts of yin and yang chi, which explains to me at least why grounding is required to gather that amount of yin. You mention it being silly to accept what Kosta wrote as true, as it was just stuff he wrote down. Again in my first point, I touch on that is how the mopai knowledge seems to be transmitted from student to teacher, unless their is some direct mind link method they use that has not been disclosed. Wasn't Kosta a mechanical engineer that designed commercial airplanes? My memory is a bit rusty but I thought I remembered that from reading his book. If we can't trust the account of an intelligent professional man, I am not sure who's account we really can trust. I have actually spoken with Kosta via email, and while he has been reluctant to talk much about mopai, I get the impression he is highly intelligent, honest, and sincere. I don't think he lied to us in his books. I can also see why he has given up on mo pai, this sort of poisonous vitriol the community sprays at him and anyone who takes up for him, I would wash my hands of it too. To me at least all of this seems to be a clinical case of sour grapes, an allusion to the actual "Fox and the grapes" fable. The fox wants the grapes but can't reach them, so he tells himself they would have been sour anyway. I would sincerely like to extend my Metta to you as well. Namaste, and may our creator bless you and your family.

It was just my way of wishing you well, there is no need to over analyze and over think things. Regards.

I meant may our creator bless you and your family.

I find it strange two people can read the same thing and come to such different views. Life is funny like that. In any case I would like to share Metta with you, and the others who seem so hostile towards all of this. I just don't understand why something so plainly and simply stated can be so controversial. Namaste, and God Bless.

MooNiNite, Normally I keep out of such topics, but it looks like he gave you what you asked for. You asked for a quote that John Chang said you must be grounded to the earth to absorb yin chi, and he did give you that. There are numerous things we don't know about the specifics like about the hui yin etc., but you didn't ask about specifics. Being grounded vs not grounded during practice to gather yin chi was the issue at hand. I have to wonder why you and everyone else have so much hostility and resistance to something which is so simple. In my research of mo pai, it seems anyone who quotes what Chang said becomes a heretic here and run out of Dodge pretty quickly. This whole thing I think is incredibly sad, and I wonder why things have to be like this. That is all I wanted to say. Namaste, and God Bless.

Interesting.

Interesting.

Interesting.

Interesting.

I tried to visit it just now but there were no people in it.

Hello, my name is SlimShady. I stumbled on this forum because I was searching about some topics that interest me. The forum caught my interest, so here I am. I hope to enjoy my stay in this forum.

Well, I'm sure the mods can take care of that, right? The forums looks organized when I first came here.

Hmmmm...

hmmmm...

How long should a person wait to see if the casted spell works? At what point do you acknowledge failure?

Now a thought crossed my mind after watching that video.

Simply say that you don't feel well or just don't show up. You can also try bluntly telling them that you don't want to do it.

Simply say that you don't feel well or just don't show up. You can also try bluntly telling them that you don't want to do it.

Seems very complex.

I only know 1 song from them, it's "Midnight City". Take a listen to Freur's "Doot Doot", it sounds similar to "Midnight City". So relaxing to the ears. Anyway, I have been listening to a lot of Chris Brown's songs. Love that guy. I have "All Off" in repeat.

hmmmmmmm?

Crowley is a Satanist, so I wouldn't really subscribe to this teachings.

Not a fan of runes.

hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm